WOW!!! I'm still shaking!

About the Mulch. I wrote that post last night and about 2:30 in the morning I changed to newspaper. I still have mulch left though and can try it again. I read Jens post about that like three times but completely forgot, figures. I tend to get flustered, but I'm ok now.

Everythings really ok because she just ate two fuzzie mice for me just 15 minutes ago! Wow! I'm still shaking and SO happy she ate!! I guess it completely eluded me that a Corn Snake baby and a Ball baby both ate fuzzies when the Balls bigger, but hey I am NOT complaining!

I did a sin though. I feed her in her tank. I had been thinking about just how to get her to eat. I even e-mailed Gourmet Rodents because Pet Co said thats where she came from. One bad thing about not getting from a Breeder. I tried thinking of how she would of ate at Pet Co (if she even ate there) How she would of ate at Gourmet Rodents and I'm not sure where she would of came from before them. Imported I know, but from the African wilderness or some Mill??

The one thing I did I shouldn't of was when I first went in and tried I held the fuzzie with my hand, DUH. None the less I flinched and dropped it but nobody was hurt. I went and grabbed my tongs and picked it up and she snatched that mouse. I WAS wondering if she would shy away from it or be an aggressive eater. Well now I know, my babies an aggressive eater!

Its SO different. With my Corn Jakers he is kind of a dumb eater. I'd put him in his cardboard box and set the mouse down and he wouldn't like sense it or hunt for it. I literally have to put him right in front of it, or the mouse right in front of him. Sometimes he'd still be on my hand and eating it. Jakers doesn't care. As of lately though I've been making fun of Lickity and saying Jakers is more the BP in the house. LOL Past month I've feed Jakers I hold it by the tail and he snatches mid air. Jake likes to do the Snake dance with me I guess. This Ball Python though. Nothing scares me more then well....roller coasters. What a show. Jake doesn't constrict, Lickity does. I can only imagine when she gets bigger she'll break things! You'll have to step AWAY from the feeding bin. Lickity snatched it mid air, bite down HARD, constricted, swallowed. When she got it down her throat she held her head up high and was grinding it and the way her throat was she looked like a freakin Cobra standing tall! Wickedness!! Now, she can sit under her log on the warm side and enjoy a nice full belly. Hopefully that puts on a couple grams!

Where do you guys get cheap scales from??? It was also fine her feeding in her tank this time because she hasn't been eating and needed to, but now I'm going to have to get her used to feeding in a card board box. If theres anything that I would REALLY prefer and REALLY want its for her to NOT get used to feeding in her tank. I'm going to get a large card board box and put newspaper in it if thats what shes gonna get used to. Maybe she won't eat without her hide to? I will try feeding her again this Friday. Since shes so underweight she better NOT try that its cold outside, I don't want to eat crap yet. I need to get quit a few more meals in her first. Does everybody BP's turn bratty in winter?? Some of your babies still have to eat? At least every three weeks or something? Well I hope so. Needless to say I won't ever buy a BP in fall again. It'll be spring or summer so that I can have the chance to fatten them up. Cat, you reading this! She ate! I'm so happy! Thank You SO much everybody for all of your help. Over half the reason shes doing so good is because of you guys!! So as you read this give a smile and know that you helped immensely!

Very glad to hear that she ate for you, Kristin.

She's young enough that you probably shouldn't have problems with her not eating with the seasonal change this year. Just keep doing what you've been doing, though I'd still try to go with a bit bigger prey, at leasy hopper sized mice.....but just having something in her tummy is the first step.

just what is the big sin about feeding in the tank? I know, I know, somebody said it was bad...but for every person you can find that says it is bad, I can find one that says there is no reason to move them - and that is for snakes in general. If we were to specify ball pythons, I'm sure I could do better than 1:1. Of course, it's your call, what you feel comfortable with, but unless you are feeding dripping wet mice on a particulate substrate, it shouldn't be an issue. For the critters I keep on mulch, I just make sure that the feeders are basically dry.

Cat, as for the Hoppers, I will try and get those at the Pet Store the end of this week. I went Friday when she went to the Vet and bought a bunch of stuff. They had crap. I'll be going back, but I don't know if I've ever seen Hoppers at any Pet Store around here. I'll have to check. Like you said though I'm happy she got something in that tummy. An hey two fuzzies equals a Hopper or so right. I'm going to try feeding her again this Friday. I called my friend with the live pinkies back this morning and she said I should of given her four but I had to go to work. So my question is how many can I can give her?? How many is to many? I wanna fatten her up. My friend also said that she is trying to fatten herself up right now, that they do that in fall and then in winter stop eating.

She really 100% believes Lickitys going to put herself into hibernation. She says hers did it last year and will do it again this year. That kind of confuses me. I've read about dropping their temps to make them hibernate for vacations, time off, and especially for breeding. Buh Snakes hibernating THEMSELVES when their Temps are left the same?? Does that make sense? Maybe it kinda does because some Snakes won't eat during winter? Is that hibernation?? All my other guys are still eating good.

Cat I hope your right about her being young and the season change not affecting her this year. Just at least this year would be nice. I'll be prepared for next year. The Vet freaked me out a little when he said if she gets lethargic she'll drop fast. I don't have any experience at force feeding. Not like I'd do it anyway. Its sad I don't live by any Fauna people to teach me stuff like that because I REALLY would love to learn. Darn.

HHMoore about the feeding in a separate tank. You tell me. I'll believe what you say, you are very experienced. So tell me if what I read makes sense to you. I read that if they learn "home" is where they get feed that it could become dangerous one day to stick your hand in. That the Snake could associate the lid being opened or something and bite you or wrap you. I've read the care sheets but haven't got my numbers memorized. Aren't Female Balls the ones that get bigger, and how big exactly? I don't feel like being coiled, or having her trying to eat my hand someday. Am I scared of size, no. Baby girls staying with me. I read the precautions about, what is it exactly, grain alcohol, regular drinking alcohol, or rubbing alcohol? I will find out more about this and have my precautions laid out as she grows bigger. I won't be stupid.

I'm not sure what to believe but I think it would be correct that Snakes do actually associate. So HHMoore do you have big Snakes? Do you feed them in their tank? Believe in association anyone? What is everybody feelings on this subject? I would LOVE to hear thoughts and stories.

Leighanne - look at it this way. You reach in to handle your snake, to clean, to provide water...as long as you are not handfeeding your snake, why should it present a problem. "feeding response." Sure, some snakes develop strong feeding responses - particularly when handling is minimalized and the reason the cage(/tank/box) is opened is to drop in food. Further, since many BPs can be easily disrupted from their feeding patterns, why intentionally disturb them prior to offering food (granted this is a much larger concern with imports than CH or CB, but still).
Now, think about this...you have taken your BP out of her tank, fed her, then reach in to get her so you can return her to her cage. BUT, she is in her feeding space, and still in feeding mode...aren't you in just as much danger of being bitten? What about the idea of not handling your snake after feeding?? There goes that one, too, if you have to handle her to put her back in her enclosure. Of course, some people that feed in separate enclosures keep the snakes in them overnite (much more appropriate if they are in a temp controlled room).

Like I said previously, many people swear by the practice of taking the snake out of the cage to feed...but just as many think it is a waste of time. The decision is yours, and should be based upon what you feel & what works best for you. I don't have anything big anymore - 9ft is about the largest - but I have had my share of large (12-18ft) burms, retics, and afrocks (probably more than my share of those, lol), and have never fed outside the cage...except with the rare times I have cohabitated animals, then one got pulled out.

Again, my initial comment was not meant to sway you - it was a response to your statement that you had "sinned". If you want to feed in another container, that is your right and privilege. If you don't, don't. Either way, it is not some horrible deed that you should feel compelled to confess or apologize for, lol. Just a choice.

Glad she ate, though.

(granted this is a much larger concern with imports than CH or CB, but still).
I don't like that comment seeing as how shes an import. Does that mean I can't handle her? I really want to handle. I mean I can keep my hands to myself, but its no fun if you can't handle them at all. Especially an ever so tempting Python. My Anoles not as tempting, hes very jumpy. lol An yes I've kept my hands off for all feeding purposes. The Vet said the same thing, minimal handling, and I think I frowned. lol Why is there even such a big difference between cb and imports? If they were imported young enough what do they remember. Does import mean actually snatched out of the wild??

Originally Posted by hhmoore

just what is the big sin about feeding in the tank?

That's exactly what I thought when I read that comment. I don't know who or where that got started, but I've heard that sermon preached so many times I grew sick of it long ago. That's not directed at Leighanne, but rather at the people who continually insist that it is the only proper way to feed snakes and in turn make folks like Leighanne feel like they are doing something gravely wrong when they do feed in the cage.

Harald explained it well as to why this supposed requirement is a fallacy. It all boils down to the level of interaction between the keeper and the snake. If you only open the cage to feed, and while the snake is coiled around the rat you change the water and spot clean, sure it will develop an association. This does not mean it's a guaranteed bite when you reach in the cage, but it can mean you have to take soem extra precaution. If however, you get in the cage routinely when it isn't feeding time, how can any association develop?

I find that 99% of the time the people who so strongly advocate feeding in seperate enclosures only have 3 or 4 snakes. Try it with a collection of 50 plus. I currently have around 70 snakes and I couldn't imagine the time requirement just to feed them all if I moved them to a seperate enclosure.
I don't handle most of my snakes much at all, there's no need to other than to fulfill a personal desire of the keeper. As a result I do have a few that are a bit bitey, but a quick rub with a hook lets them know that they're not getting fed and there's no problem with handling them.

Like Harald said, do what you feel is best for you, but don't feel like you're commiting some cardinal sin if you feed in the cage, there's nothing at all wrong with it despite what some people insist.

I don't like that comment seeing as how shes an import. Does that mean I can't handle her?

Let's make sure you are understanding the terms. Harald said, "granted this is a much larger concern with imports than CH or CB, but still".
As I understand it, your ball is a baby, born in Africa. That makes it CH (captive hatched) in all liklihood. This means it was probably hatched in a facility from eggs laid by a WC female. Behaviorally it is basically the same as a CB animal, since it never actually lived in the wild.
While CH is technically an import, that term is usually applied to animals that were caught in the wild, meaning older animals. These present a very different set of behaviors.
An imported adult can be very shy and secretive, and moving it to a seperate enclosure can easily cause it to refuse food. It can also happen with both CB and CH babies, but it's much more prevalent with WC adults. It all depends on the temperment of the individual.

As far as handling, you can overhandle any snake, but the fact yours was CH won't cause you to treat it any different than if it was CB in the US.

Cool, Thank You very much! I was wondering exactly what her being "imported" meant. Thanks for clearing that up. I definatley don't overhandle. I can't say I didn't handle her a bit when I first got her, but who hasn't done that. Once HHMoore cleared up the no handling a Snake that isn't eating though I stoped. I am very glad to hear I can still take her out a couple times a week after shes gained some weight. Phew! I kinda like her. lol