No more reptile shipping!?

Got this today.

"kyle,
Both company's are shut down First Syr then us here is a copy of the letter from owners
I wanted to explain the current situation with RE and UPS. We have a few people in corporate UPS that have been battling for RE and the reptile industry. There was only 2 more issues we have been working with UPS to find a permanent solution to: Snake Shipping and 3rd party billing (reselling labels). Early this week we made a huge step forward and got waiver free snake shipping approved with UPS through RE. Today we received some very bad news from UPS. The folks in UPS that have been working very hard to get these issues approved lost a very important battle today. We have been told that UPS has sent out a cease and desist order to SYR and pulled there accounts. They told RE today that they can not keep the lawyers from sending the same letter to us. We have been told are accounts are still active and we will need to wait for some of the fires to be put out before they will allow RE as a reseller of shipping labels to the reptile industry. We have 6 months of emails and phone calls assuring RE that our website and business plan was approved before we officially launched our site and most of the problems we have had are from outside pressure being applied to UPS. We will continue to work with UPS to work out this unfortunately series of events and will do everything we can to offer reasonable overnight reptile shipping in the future. We have removed the label option from our website until further notice. We wanted to apologize to all of our members and promise we will do everything possible to work this out with UPS. I placed a call to Chad at SYR today to see if we can work together with UPS to resolve these issues. I have not received a call back. I think at this point we just need to work with UPS together and stop the heat that is being applied at the corporate office. Thanks for the support and please post this in the other forums. We can't hit them all."

Thank You,
Debbie Price
debbie@reptilesexpress.com
404-477-4102

There are a few threads on this subject already. There's still reptile shipping - via FedEx and Delta.
I wonder if UPS is actually going to enforce their policies with the countless breeders and dealers that use them regularly...or if this is just an extension of their long standing practice of looking the other way for some while placing a barrier in front of so many others.

It's not as simple as it may seem Harald. UPS wouldn't knowingly allow you (an individual) to ship a case of lithium batteries, small arms cartridges or hydrochloric acid because you (the individual) are an unknown entity with little or no accountability. In UPS' opinion, snakes are hazardous/dangerous goods just like these other things and they have the right (and responsibility) to screen shippers of those hazardous/dangerous goods. Those countless breeders and dealers have probably done the legwork and proven reliable in order to be able to ship through UPS.

Originally Posted by RustyNuts

Those countless breeders and dealers have probably done the legwork and proven reliable in order to be able to ship through UPS.

You don't actually believe the thousands of private breeders who use UPS to ship snakes every year have actually "done the legwork and proven reliable" do you?

They just ship as they always have, under the radar. As long as there isn't a problem, their packages just get pushed along with the millions of other packages they handle every day.

Actually, there ARE some big name companies in this business shipping snakes with the blessing of UPS. UPS is accepting their business, in my opinion, solely based on the volume of business ($$) they get from them, and absolutely nothing else. It doesn't have a damned thing to do with "screening" at all, except in the case of $$ changing hands.

It's blatant discrimination against smaller companies, in my opinion, and provides an unfair competitive advantage to those larger sellers at the expense of smaller scale sellers. Quite frankly, I believe that UPS just needs to have a sizeable class action suit slapped across their face for their practices in this regard. They certainly pulled the same sort of crap with me years ago, saying I could ship snakes and then a year later, without any warning, just pulled the rug out from under me. This is apparently just the way they operate, and quite frankly, I wouldn't trust their word any further than I could throw one of their big brown trucks.

To this day, I WILL NOT give any business to UPS, unless I absolutely have no other choice, and am willing to pay more for any other alternative that presents itself.

Originally Posted by Clay Davenport

You don't actually believe the thousands of private breeders who use UPS to ship snakes every year have actually "done the legwork and proven reliable" do you?

They just ship as they always have, under the radar.

Okay, so are we talking about the ones using UPS "under the radar" or the ones shipping snakes with UPS' blessing? If breeders are not being up front about what they are shipping how can that be the fault of UPS (or FedEx, etc.?)

Originally Posted by WebSlave

Actually, there ARE some big name companies in this business shipping snakes with the blessing of UPS. UPS is accepting their business, in my opinion, solely based on the volume of business ($$) they get from them, and absolutely nothing else. It doesn't have a damned thing to do with "screening" at all, except in the case of $$ changing hands.

Yes, there are several companies shipping snakes legitimately via UPS. Yes, they are mostly larger shippers. But you guys need to step back from being herpers for a minute and look at things from a different perspective.

UPS views and handles snakes as hazardous/dangerous goods. If you don't believe me, just read through the waiver letter that UPS sent to ReptilesExpress. UPS treats dangerous goods and hazardous materials differently than they do normal packages, and shippers of dangerous goods have to do a bit more work before they ship their packages. They also can be held responsible for said shipments from a legal standpoint.

If I went to Walmart this morning and bought an aerosol can of Lysol I could come home, box it up and ship it to my son via UPS "under the radar" as long as I don't tell them what it is I'm shipping. Legally I'm not allowed to ship Lysol because it's an ORM-D HazMat. The fact doesn't stop a lot of people from doing it every day though. Under the radar, of course.

There are laws regarding the shipment of HazMats and then UPS has additional rules regarding them, as well as certain items that UPS considers a potential danger to its workforce, trucks, planes and the general public.

UPS is big on accountability. UPS can't review every small time shipper of snakes to make sure that they are following prescribed shipping methods so they would just as soon not deal with them at all.

Originally Posted by WebSlave

It's blatant discrimination against smaller companies, in my opinion, and provides an unfair competitive advantage to those larger sellers at the expense of smaller scale sellers. Quite frankly, I believe that UPS just needs to have a sizeable class action suit slapped across their face for their practices in this regard.

So you're wanting to prove that UPS discriminates against smaller sellers by not letting them ship their products? There are PLENTY of small time shippers that do business with UPS. They just don't try to ship snakes.

Originally Posted by RustyNuts

Those countless breeders and dealers have probably done the legwork and proven reliable in order to be able to ship through UPS.

Originally Posted by RustyNuts

Okay, so are we talking about the ones using UPS "under the radar" or the ones shipping snakes with UPS' blessing? If breeders are not being up front about what they are shipping how can that be the fault of UPS (or FedEx, etc.?)

We're obviously talking about the average Joe shipping his snakes as he always has, because those few doing so with the blessing of UPS are in no stretch of the imagination "countless". You can most likely count them on your fingers.

The more you post, Jerry, the more you come off like a loyal UPS employee....

Well, you're right Harald. I am a loyal UPS employee, is there any shame in liking the company you work for? I don't agree with everything they do but this one I can certainly understand. I've seen too many loose snakes wreaking havoc in the hub not to understand their point of view.

And yes, it does bug me that I can't ship my snakes through the company that I work for, even as a loyal employee. It bugs the heck out of me that I have to go to their competitor in order to do business. But I do understand their reasoning, and respect their right to have it, even if it's a hindrance to me.

I would post the same line of thought to those that complain about how long it takes for FedEx to give them approval. FedEx is doing us a favor accepting snakes for shipment and yet there's no end to the whining and complaining done about how long it takes to get approved.

Clay, I borrowed the word 'countless' from Harald's earlier post. I know that authorized shippers are few and far between.

One last thought for now.....We, as a group, tend to cry about the injustices served upon our community by those that don't like reptiles, and snakes in particular. We feel that we should have the right to keep what we want as long as they are properly cared for and are of no detriment to others. We expect it. So why are we so against a company running their business as they see the need to? In this regard, we are just as guilty of being one sided as the reptile haters are: We want what we want and we don't care what someone else's reasoning may be.

Why is there no outrage against American, United, or Southwest Airlines? Wouldn't it be nice for Delta Dash to have some competition?

And what about the Postal Service? Where's the indignity over the fact that we can't take a banana box full of snakes and dump it on the counter at the local post office and expect it to be shipped with no questions asked?

Yes, UPS allows a few larger companies to ship snakes, companies that have taken the time to go through the process and that UPS feels is worth the effort to bother with. I don't qualify. You don't qualify. Shall we cry some more now? Or file some ridiculous lawsuit against them so that they REALLY want to do business with us?

I'm not trying to be confrontational, truly I'm not, but all I see in these threads is the ME! ME! ME! attitude with no regard for others. It sounds just like the banter coming from the opposite side of the hobby, those that would just as soon no one kept reptiles. If we want respect, we have to be willing to give respect in return.

Actually, I'm not crying about it - I don't like UPS. Their service here is pretty bad, IMO, and the hub location is very inconvenient for me so I wouldn't be able to drop off on most days.

And, no, there is nothing wrong with liking your job and/or being loyal to your employer. Your posts in this thread just screamed I am an employee of UPS to me, and I wanted to see if I was reading them correctly.