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Chuck Tornetta/ECE Eisenman het pieds

N

NJTom732

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Hi Everyone, I am interested to see if there is anyone out there that purchased 100% het pied females in April 2003 sold by Chuck Tornetta in New Jersey HCE Eisenman.

Chuck sold 5 female and 1 male that he got from HCE / Harry Eisenman in a trade, all 6 were micro chipped, but no photo ID.

I bread my 100% het female I got from Chuck to a 100% het male I purchased from John Manser with photo ID also purchased in April 2003 this year and got 6 eggs when they hatched last month I got no pieds!

Has anyone been able to prove these out?

Hope to hear from some of you guy!
Thanks Tom
 
Tom, I can clear up 50% of your question.

I have bought hets from John Manser and they have proven out to be exactly as stated. John is a great guy and I would trust him to buy hets from. :)
 
I dont think the male from John is the ones he is worrying about. Everyone knows that Carolina Reptile Exchange or HCE AKA Harry Eisenman or whatever there calling themselves these days have sold a ton of fake hets and none of them have ever proved out yet. Paul
 
Paul, then the responsibility would fall on Chuck Tornetta as he is the person that sold these females as hets. he needs to step up and do the right thing if these het pieds do not prove out to be hets. a 6 egg clutch is big enought to tell if you are breeding hets, you should have seen a pied or 2 in there?
wyblep said:
I dont think the male from John is the ones he is worrying about. Everyone knows that Carolina Reptile Exchange or HCE AKA Harry Eisenman or whatever there calling themselves these days have sold a ton of fake hets and none of them have ever proved out yet. Paul
Click to expand...
 
For those of us who have bred pieds know that the Punnett Square is not etched in stone.....it is a guide line.
My one pair of hets did the following"

4 eggs 3 pieds 1 66% het

5 eggs 2 pieds 3 66% hets

4 eggs 0 pieds 3 66% hets 1 bad

Same girl is on a clutch as I post this.
5 eggs could be all 66% hets .....who knows.

Each clutch can change. He could breed next year and get 8 eggs and 4 pieds! :shrug01:

RicK
 
Ed Clark said:
Paul, then the responsibility would fall on Chuck Tornetta as he is the person that sold these females as hets. he needs to step up and do the right thing if these het pieds do not prove out to be hets. a 6 egg clutch is big enought to tell if you are breeding hets, you should have seen a pied or 2 in there?
Click to expand...

Ed, it would depend on what kind of guarantee Chuck offered to the original poster (Tom). Tom never stated if Chuck said that he would guarantee them as Hets, or if he simply identified them as "Hets" from CRE. For all we know they were sold at a discount because they were from HCE with the caveat that because no one has proven out Hets from HCE he was selling them for below market price for guaranteed HETS. Only Tom or Chuck can answer as to what their original deal was; better to hear from them prior to jumping to conclusions!
:thumbsup:
 
Sam, I do think that Chuck should offer some input about these hets and maybe clear the air. alittle info about any kind of guarantee would be nice. :)

I also dont think Tom would have started a thread if it was a maybe these are hets kind of deal. the price that was charged is not important....if they were sold as hets and are not. thats whats important.
Gecko_Den said:
Ed, it would depend on what kind of guarantee Chuck offered to the original poster (Tom). Tom never stated if Chuck said that he would guarantee them as Hets, or if he simply identified them as "Hets" from CRE. For all we know they were sold at a discount because they were from HCE with the caveat that because no one has proven out Hets from HCE he was selling them for below market price for guaranteed HETS. Only Tom or Chuck can answer as to what their original deal was; better to hear from them prior to jumping to conclusions!
:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
 
Ed Clark said:
Sam, I do think that Chuck should offer some input about these hets and maybe clear the air. alittle info about any kind of guarantee would be nice. :)

I also dont think Tom would have started a thread if it was a maybe these are hets kind of deal. the price that was charged is not important....if they were sold as hets and are not. thats whats important.
Click to expand...

I disagree Ed. If these were sold at a huge discount due to the source being CRE then the price is a very important point in the transaction.
 
Nope, price charged does not matter in the least. if a ball python is sold as a het, thats exactly what it should be.
Suncoast Herpetological said:
I disagree Ed. If these were sold at a huge discount due to the source being CRE then the price is a very important point in the transaction.
Click to expand...
 
Suncoast Herpetological said:
I disagree Ed. If these were sold at a huge discount due to the source being CRE then the price is a very important point in the transaction.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

If these were sold at the prices legitimate hets went for at the time, then Chuck needs to compensate somehow since they were from a questionable source and he resold them.

If they were sold at a large discount because of the source they came from, then the poster took a gamble and lost.

Without the specifics of the deal, it's tough to say what the next course of action should be.
 
Ed Clark said:
the price that was charged is not important....if they were sold as hets and are not. thats whats important.
Click to expand...

That's the problem Ed; no one with knowledge of the deal has clarified how they were sold. For all we know Chuck told Tom "Hey I have these snakes I got from HCE as "Het" Pieds but I'm not 100% sure I believe them. Rather than charging you $1200 each I'll sell them to you as possible Hets for $600 each, if they don't prove out you will need to talk to HCE." In that scenario Chuck was being upfront and Tom was accepting the risk that they may not prove out in exchange for the possibility that he was getting a great deal if they did prove to be Hets.

I'm not saying that's what happened, merely speculating on how in the above scenario Chuck wouldn't be at fault. The point of my post was that all the information was not available to us based on what had been posted so far and prior to jumping to conclusions and making assumptions it would be best to wait until all of the info/facts were presented.
;)
 
SPJ said:
Exactly.

If these were sold at the prices legitimate hets went for at the time, then Chuck needs to compensate somehow since they were from a questionable source and he resold them.

If they were sold at a large discount because of the source they came from, then the poster took a gamble and lost.

Without the specifics of the deal, it's tough to say what the next course of action should be.
Click to expand...


Couldn't have said it better Steve.
 
6 eggs is not enough to tell if the pair you have is 100% hets or not. I just hatched out a clutch of 6 eggs from Albino x Het and there were no albinos in the clutch. Statistically their should have been 3 albinos in that clutch. The same pairing last year produced a couple albinos. Also, I had a clutch of 11 eggs from Genetic Stripe x Pastel with only 1 pastel in the clutch (statistically their should have been 5-6).

Keep breeding your animals and hopefully your female proves out.

Corey
 
Corey Woods said:
6 eggs is not enough to tell if the pair you have is 100% hets or not. I just hatched out a clutch of 6 eggs from Albino x Het and there were no albinos in the clutch. Statistically their should have been 3 albinos in that clutch. The same pairing last year produced a couple albinos. Also, I had a clutch of 11 eggs from Genetic Stripe x Pastel with only 1 pastel in the clutch (statistically their should have been 5-6).

Keep breeding your animals and hopefully your female proves out.

Corey
Click to expand...
That is what I said a few posts back with my het pieds...... :iagree:
 
The fact that these "hets" are from a very questionable source (CRE is not known for being honest) and did not produce any visuals makes it very likely that they are just normals IMO.
 
6 eggs from Het x Het only gives you a 82.2% shot at getting a pied. Unfortunately when using a CRE Het your chances are 0%
 
Thanks for all your impute guy, Chuck is very aware of the situation and is unwilling to accept and responsibility for these hets. I got a receipt for it from chuck be be a 100% het female.

Feel free to contact me directly, [email protected]
 
Chuck did not sell me the het pied as a possible, he sold it to me as a 100% het pied female and I have the receipt to prove it. Chuck does not want to have no responsibility for this animal. The best part I have been friends with him for 3 years and now wants nothing to do with me or the issue.
 
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