Shannon Brown Inquiry PLEASE READ!!!

OK guys i have a dilemma on my hands...
I recently, after seeing Shannon's name posted in the milksnake forums on kingsnake (good things i might add), inquired about purchasing some brooks kings off him.
Now i don't want to make Shannon mad at me by posting this, as he has been nothing but nice to me, but.................. i am slightly concerned here.
I have committed to buying these brooks kings off him before some things were brought to my attention. In an e:mail i sent to him yesterday confirming that i would be purchasing them off him i stated that i would leave him a good guy post here when i receive the animals off him. he then replied in his own words:

Subject: RE: brooksi
From: "Shannon" <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, December 8, 2007 12:00 pm
To: [email protected]
Priority: Normal
Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version

Thanks.
I will let you know when I get it. The good guy post is appreciated but
there are a couple jerks that will just jump on there that I have had
problems with in the past and sling mud etc....

Shannon

Well it seems it is my own fault that before i contacted or committed to the deal that i did not check him out on the BOI which is completely my fault.
After this e:mail from him i got a bit skeptical, and i don't want to be one to judge the man, but after reading through these:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79115&highlight=shannon+brown

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72720&highlight=shannon+brown

it seems it has left a semi-bitter taste in my mouth.

I suppose my point is this, i am an honest man, and my record speaks for itself. When i say i am going to do something, i always do it...
I committed to buying these from him, but at the same time do not know if i feel completely comfortable now.
I do not want to be lumped into the crowd that support scammers and those whom cannot pay their bills to others.
I am NOT saying that he is a scammer, nor that i would not receive the items i have offered to buy from him... What i am getting at is, i suppose, that i do not want to be one of those whom turns a blind eye to these infractions i have read about. I want my name to stay clear in this hobby, as i want to have a reputation that is as reputable as some of the big guys out there some day.
I am also stuck with the dilemma of purchasing these items off him as that was MY WORD to the man.
I am at a loss and do not honestly know what i should do in this instance.
I want to be an example to others and do the right thing here, but just do not know at this point what the right thing would be.
I am striving to keep a good name here as a man to do business with, an honest man, but would i be that honest man if i were to go through with this purchase, and would i be that honest man if i did not keep my end of the deal?
so i guess most of all i am confused and would like the advice of others that are more experienced than myself to help me come to some sort of conclusion.
Like i said, Shannon has been nothing but nice to me, but in the grand scheme of things what does this matter if he has been nice to me, and not so right in dealing with others???
I would definitely like some imput.
I went ahead and committed before i even checked the BOI, something i never do unless it is someone i have heard good things about, and to be honest i have heard good things about Shannon, but these threads i posted also shed another light, and this scares me for the deal, and for my reputation as a good guy.
I am not looking for anyone to come here and bash Shannon which is certainly anyones right to do so given this is a BOI thread. I am merely looking for some guidance through peers that can help me to do the right thing about this situation. I do not want to leave Shannon holding the bag so to speak, nor do i want to tarnish my own good name (if it were possible to do so) by going through with the deal.
I know this ones on the fence as he has his supporters, and then those that would crucify him..... I don't know which corner of the ring i should be in at this time. I am confused, my guy tells me one thing, and then my head tells me another.
Any input from some of the more knowledgable folks would be SO greatly appreciated. I thank you all for your time in reading this, and apologize first and formost if this does hurt Shannon's feelings or his future business as this is not my intentions. I just need to know some things before i either A. go through with this deal, or B. back out on it, which i have never had to do in my time dealing in reptiles.

matthew watkins

If you feel in any way uncomfortable with working with him then back out.

You have to follow your gut instincts.

texasnewbie said:

If you feel in any way uncomfortable with working with him then back out.

You have to follow your gut instincts.

Click to expand...

It's not so much that i am totally uncomfortable as i do not believe he would just take my money and not send me the items, it's what's stated in the two threads i posted that make me leery.
i do have payment plans, and man have they ever helped me out in buying the things i want/need for my collection... i just do not leave people holding the bag, and it seems that if he has done so in a couple instances or more without paying his debt, or without paying it in a timely manner.
ANYONE that does payment plans with me can attest to the fact that i pay every week like clockwork and never have had to have anyone that i am paying remind me to do so. It is always in the forfront of my mind.
I even had a guy (will not mention his name) that this week alone wanted to send me a boa without me paying it off to him first because he obviously trusted my reputation. Now this guy that i speak of has NEVER done business with me, and i know that he is a super reputable dude, so this must say something for my character, and business practices. I declined and told him to wait until i paid the boa off. It was a very nice gesture for him to offer that, and makes me feel good that without him knowing me, can rely on me to do what i say.
I am concerned with this deal between Shannon and I because. as i read in those threads, things were not getting done despite numerous attempts, and that does bother me.
Shannon was nice enough to offer the items at a much discounted rate and that i do appreciate so do not want to badmouth him as i have never done any transactions with him, and do not want to completely eliminate he and i ever doing business in the future by my hastiness.
I just feel as if i am stuck in limbo as to what i should do, and most of it could be pushed off on my shoulders as i did not research the BOI on this one until after it was brought to my attention by his own seeming admission of something being off key so to speak.

matthew watkins

shannon is someone who cares more about shannon than those he does business with BUT he's not necessarily a bad guy. I did a transaction with him a few years ago and it went ok. I know he's messed up on a couple of others, and that was after I did my deal with him so I won't deal with him again until he makes it right.

If I were in your shoes I'd finish up my deal with him, post how it went, and let him know that the only reason, provided you're happy with your deal, that you won't do further business with him is because he has unfinished business of his own.

You keep your word and nudge someone who needs it. You're not a bad guy.

Thanks WES i really would have hated to just leave Shannon in the dark and not do what i say i was going to do.
I didn't think he was a bad guy, but i do believe you are right, that this business that is unfinished should be taken care of by him.
I want to be able to sell my animals in the future, and not have any question as to my character or business practices.
I was worried that a deal such as this could hurt my own affairs, and i did not want to be dishonest with Shannon when i said i would leave him a good guy post after i received them and (was truly happy with the deal). But i won't lie and say that i wasn't scared after i had committed to leaving him a good guy thread, and then reading those other threads about him that it might somehow get me flamed, and in turn ruin what i am striving so hard to make.
I want people to want to do business with me in the future, and for my promises to always be met, and kept in a timely manner. I want to be known as someone reliable and trustworthy, as that has been what has been instilled in me by my mother and father my whole life. That matthew is not to lie even if it means i lose in the long run. If i am going to lose money by telling the truth then that is what i am to do. A dollar amount cannot be placed on a solid trustworthy reputation, and that is the reputation i aim to keep in this hobby, or any other i venture out into.

matthew watkins

Thomas

While I don't think your rep is in danger either way, I applaud your moral stance in not wanting to support a businessman who does not honor his debts. I happen to know for a fact that he still owes at least two people considerable sums. One of those dates back to 2004.

You can always go through with the deal on the condition that your funds be sent directly to one of those who are way past due for payment....just a thought.

shannon is someone who cares more about shannon than those he does business with BUT he's not necessarily a bad guy.

Click to expand...

Wes, I realize that you are trying to be fair with the statement above but I consider that the absolute definition of a "Bad Guy"

I'm not going to try and persuade you either way, because I believe there are arguments for choosing either...But, I would like to share my one and only experience with Shannon. I ordered 2 snakes from him and one of them he sent was the wrong one (similar, but not what was pictured in the advertisement). When I brought this to his attention, he apologized and refunded me right away for the snake and the shipping back to him, without hesitation. I have heard some things about him owing money to some people, which I don't know the details of. But, he did treat me right. Just wanted to share, so you can take it for what it's worth...

Max

beating up on Shannon

I've dealt with Shannon many times for many years and believe he'll eventually pay everybody off and apologize for the delay. I've waited for payment and he's paid his debts off.
He won't burn you on the purchase of the kings, that's just not in him.
I think he'd even ship the snakes to you w/o payment if he knows you.
Jeff Hardwick

Do not give him credit for anything until he has paid his debts to the ones he has screwed.He still owes alot of money and cotinues to buy more animals.I would not want my name associated with his.Terry Heuring

Dixie Reptiles said:

Do not give him credit for anything until he has paid his debts to the ones he has screwed.He still owes alot of money and cotinues to buy more animals.I would not want my name associated with his.Terry Heuring

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terry however you know i like you alot, and do respect your opinion greatly, i had to follow through with the deal as it was my word.
when i give my word to someone it is bond.
however i completely do NOT agree with him doing as he has done, especially from someone so close to home being not far from me in AL, i just could not back out.
had i known how things were to begin with i would not have even entertained the idea until all debts were paid off, but it was a bit too late. I will learn to check the BOI on all accounts now, but even that sometimes does not help.
I know it wouldn't have helped with this next scenario i am about to give, as i have NEVER read anything bad about the person i am going to give an account of ANYWHERE........
To be honest i am having one hell of a time getting some paperwork from a BIGTIME dealer right now, and my last 2 or 3 e:mail attempts have gone unanswered. I am being patient and hoping that it will come in (was supposed to come in with the boas i purchased that were possible hets), but the person conducting the deal said he forgot to send them with the boas.
I have no reason to believe i will not get my paperwork, but now it is becoming a frustration for me day by day as without this paperwork they are just (to others) plain ol' normal boas. my point i suppose is however the BOI has helped me in numerous transactions, it did not seem to help in this case with the boa breeder as i did not use it to inquire about them. i relied solely on reputation by word of mouth. Do i think they will come through with my paperwork? who knows... i am starting to wonder as it has been promised for a few weeks now, but.............. i will remain patient in this deal until it truly presents itself otherwise.
I did not check Shannon's rep. either because i relied solely on things i had seen posted in the kingsnake milk forums recently, such as i did with this "super" reputable boa breeder, and that is my fault alone.
I have always used the BOI when it comes to purchases and when i have never heard of a certain person or business advertising something i want, but in this case it seems i just relied on what i had read elsewhere before checking here.
Had i not kept my word to Shannon i would just be another deadbeat making promises i can't keep and anyone whom has done business with me knows that i simply do not do that.
I am terribly sorry if it has offended anyone that i have purchased from him, but i just could NOT back out and still be a person with integrity.

matthew watkins


p.s. i hope anything i said here made sense as i knew what i was trying to say, just too tired to know if i conveyed it correctly to everyone else.

Matt or Tom not sure who you are with two different names in your post, I do hope you mentioned this thread to him , if not I doubt he'll take it in the sense you intended..

As far as the deal goes I'd talk to the guy about this whole mess and see what he has to say. He might be understanding and release you from your agreement, either way you should talk to him about it... Randy

Thomas is just my first name, but i go by Matthew.
I sent the money order out this morning to him.
i just didn't want to look bad to him by not keeping my end of the bargain, nor to my fellow fauna members by not posting something about this transaction and keeping it secret.
This is just a real lesson for me. I hope that he takes this money i sent him and applies it to the money he owes someone.
i do find it strange that he would be selling so much, and yet not paying his debt.
i know that i am a stickler for paying debts, and it would just be on my mind continuously (as it is now) when i owe someone money. i have agreements with all the parties i am involved with though when making payments on my current payment plans.
i send a certain amount every week so as to take care of those that i owe.
this was basically a gift to me by my mother for Christmas (even though i supposedly had to sell one of my guns to do so) ;0) at least in my dad's eye...
what can i say, buying snakes for me is like crack to a crack addict.
i work for my family and i spend FAR too much money on my collection, and my mother basically (without my dad knowing, sometimes can't tell the old man everything LOL) bought me these for Christmas in a round about sort of way even though i handled the transaction on my own other than buying the money order for the kings.
I hate that this had to happen, but if ever i do business with any of you reading this thread you'll see that i ALWAYS keep my word. When i say i am sending out payment, that is what i do. yes, i was concerned as i do believe this money i sent (only $250) could go some way to help pay off others that he has owed for so long, but honestly what can i do when the money is out of my hands???
I am sorry if anyone sees this as a bad thing with me doing business with Shannon, but i certainly could not just leave the guy hanging, it is more about morals to me, and being truthful in keeping my word.
i had him hold them for me for a few days before i ever read those threads, or posted this one.
it would have been hard just to turn the deal around with being made to look like some sort of bad person myself.
I do apologize, and hope that he will use this money to make at least "something" right.

matthew watkins

Matthew, a couple of things.

People tend to see me as a big obnoxious pain in the ass or someone who represents what a good guy should be. Depending on your personal view the following will either ease your conscience or be meaningless. You get to decide.

You've done no wrong that I can see. You've thought this through and even asked for advice. You've made public what is no ones business just to be sure there were no misunderstandings somewhere down the road and you're not real happy about any of it.

You did what you thought was right in spite of the inconvenience to yourself.

I say you've got no worries. Continue as you've started and you'll have a great reputation in no time. I'd buy from you or recommend you as a good guy, for now, without problem.

Don't worry about what hasn't happened. Be honest. Everything else will fall into place.

Wilomn said:

Matthew, a couple of things.

People tend to see me as a big obnoxious pain in the ass or someone who represents what a good guy should be. Depending on your personal view the following will either ease your conscience or be meaningless. You get to decide.

You've done no wrong that I can see. You've thought this through and even asked for advice. You've made public what is no ones business just to be sure there were no misunderstandings somewhere down the road and you're not real happy about any of it.

You did what you thought was right in spite of the inconvenience to yourself.

I say you've got no worries. Continue as you've started and you'll have a great reputation in no time. I'd buy from you or recommend you as a good guy, for now, without problem.

Don't worry about what hasn't happened. Be honest. Everything else will fall into place.

Click to expand...

Wes i do appreciate the support and the wisdom shared.
i just try to do everything by the book, and not get myself into anything that could jeopardize my business.
I have been running businesses since i was 16. i ran a vintage toy business a few years back before my X wife screwed me over royally.
I have tons of feedback there that should attest to my business practices, and sold some VERY expensive items over the years.
I just want to be looked at as being a mans man. The type of guy people can rely on to do what he says, and never be questioned on that.
I do appreciate you saying that you would do business with me if i had anything you were looking for, as that makes me feel good, and feel like i am accomplishing the goal i set out to accomplish in the beginning.
I have talked with Shannon through e:mail and he knows about this thread. I was not the one whom alerted him to it, but he was notified about it being here.
However i do not know Shannon very well, i do seem to believe he will pay off his debt to those parties owed some day... when will that be, i have no idea?
I just want to reiterate, that this was not a thread started for i myself to bash Shannon or what he has going on with others. I won't reiterate why i started the thread as if you (the readers) have read it, you know what my true intentions were as they have been stated several times.
I think Shannon as he explained to me got a bit in over his head, and stretched his means. It could happen to anyone, and now i believe it is time for him to make up for that. If he does i believe it will show him not to be as bad as some might portray him to be. However it would have been better to do this in a timely manner, the fact is that if he makes up for it, he can't be all bad.
Once again Wes thank you for the support, and you know as well that i would NEVER have a problem buying from you.
I think that i might have e:mailed you a little too late, but i sent a private message to you a couple weeks back and was going to buy your pueblan female and Alterna female, but I'm not sure if you got it or not.
Thank you all that have responded with positive comments, and guidance, it was greatly appreciated.

matthew watkins

?

I've dealt with Shannon many times for many years and believe he'll eventually pay everybody off and apologize for the delay.

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Jeff, you know I respect and like you..but you and others saying crude like this only encourages Shannon.
This guy is lowest of the low...been to Jail for embezzling thousands from Sears, lied about it on a forum post here.
Has burned at least a dozen people I know a few I am friends with.
There's a lot more I wished I could post but others asked me not to.
He still buys stuff off kingsnake for himself while telling others he has no cash(in fact just got some expensive animals recently) and will only pay people if he feels it is convenient just ask Rodney.
This isn't one isolated incident, but has been going on for over a decade now.
This guy milks the milk and king forums on kingsnake daily so he can put out an image of being a good guy...
and the really sad part..your all are falling for it...
Jeff
Judge a man by his actions not his words..

When it comes down to it..those who stand by Shannon when he screws people are just as bad as him because they lack the moral character to take stand against something they know is wrong. Sorta like people watching a mugging in a City..everyone's reaction is.."it's not my problem".
Some people can sit back and watch with a clear conscious.
I can't...

BTW I love this quote from Shannon email..

"there are a couple jerks that will just jump on there that I have had
problems with in the past and sling mud etc...."

...so those who he burned are jerks!!

Justin Mitcham said:

Jeff, you know I respect and like you..but you and others saying crude like this only encourages Shannon.
This guy is lowest of the low...been to Jail for embezzling thousands from Sears, lied about it on a forum post here.
Has burned at least a dozen people I know a few I am friends with.
There's a lot more I wished I could post but others asked me not to.
He still buys stuff off kingsnake for himself while telling others he has no cash(in fact just got some expensive animals recently) and will only pay people if he feels it is convenient just ask Rodney.
This isn't one isolated incident, but has been going on for over a decade now.
This guy milks the milk and king forums on kingsnake daily so he can put out an image of being a good guy...
and the really sad part..your all are falling for it...
Jeff
Judge a man by his actions not his words..

When it comes down to it..those who stand by Shannon when he screws people are just as bad as him because they lack the moral character to take stand against something they know is wrong. Sorta like people watching a mugging in a City..everyone's reaction is.."it's not my problem".
Some people can sit back and watch with a clear conscious.
I can't...

Click to expand...

Justin while i do understand you being upset with him, i hope that none of this "it's not my problem" is not somehow directed towards myself in doing business with him.
i cannot help the fact that i felt obligated to go through with the deal.
had you been the one on the other end, and i had made a promise to you, and this was the scenario with you, i would have still sent payment because it is what is right when giving a man your word.
whatever skeletons Shannon has in his closet, i do not completely know nor is his personal business any of my business at all. i do not condone what others have said he has done, but it is not my place to judge him.
i do want to remain neutral in this as much as possible because i am not party to him owing me money, but i do understand the anger in those that he owes.
i e:mailed him, and even told him myself to make it right with the people so this all can die down.
i know it will always be in the back of some peoples minds (as well as in the front of others), but if he pays them back i think that says something for his character.
We own a pawnshop here, and have many people that will come in and rip us for boocoodles of money and then you won't hear from them for a year or two, and all of a sudden one day they come back in and pay you off out of the blue. i do not know much of Shannon's character, but possibly in due time he will make this right, and not continue to spend money that is not rightly his.
I just don't want my name being associated as someone who's practices mirror that of himself.
do i believe he will make things right? only time will tell, but i do believe at some point he will do so.
Of course i do tend to put alot of faith into what some say at times, and am not always correct, but i will keep my fingers crossed that i am right with this one, and not have to stand corrected at some point further down the road.

matthew watkins

beating up and kicking Shannon

Justin, we don't have the facts about the Sears incident -just heresay. Drop it.
I've also heard that Shannon owes money to several people but until they get out here and air that laundry, it's also heresay. (yes, I followed that other post long ago and hope the incident is resolved)
If you tell me he robbed snakes from you or owes you money, that's a fact and I'll believe you.
He did finally pay me and will eventually pay the others also - obviously not in the time frame or same sense of responsibility you and I would.

Just to clear the air, I'm not his dupe or 'pal' but the question was posed "should I send him the bucks for a couple kings?" Yes, he'll send the snakes.
Wish there were more Justins around!
Jeff

You know, shannon, while I do believe that you will eventually pay what you owe, you sure suck at doing it when you should.

I just picked up some hondurans and while it sort of slid by me as I was inspecting them it bubbled up just a few minutes ago.

You, shannon, seemed to have the money to purchase, or to want to purchase, on of the hondurans produced by the guy I got mine from.

Why don't you quit screwing around and just pay the people you owe insead of buying new snakes. IN FACT, I think you, you are somewhat short and sort of fat, right, asked me about a trio of hondurans I had for sale at Anaheim but I was too busy to really talk to you. Someone addressed you as shannon when you were at my table.

Pay them shannon and then we don't have to do this anymore.

Shannon is a thief and a liar, I wouldn't send my money to him if he was the last herper on earth. Just do a search for his name on the BOI and you'll see the tip of the iceburg. "SplitBrain" has a LOT of people that he has screwed and one of these days it will catch up with him.