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Illegal shipping, how widespread is it?

Lucille

Lucille

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It all started with an ad for a scorpion I answered. The vendor was willing to ship USPS; when I told him under most circumstances this was not legal, he said he would not do it.

I went to a large spider board and asked about shipping. Someone answered essentially that at USPS no one knows what is inside the box.

I said, and I think, that people who break that law are scumbags. Apparently from the answers I got, shipping spiders and scorpions USPS is a common practice.

While I don't expect anyone to come on here and say 'heck yeah, I break the law', I'd like an idea of just how widespread this is?

For the record, even if everyone does it, I won't.

My vendor says Fedex ships scorps. I have not had anything shipped to me for a long time, anyone know what current Fedex rules are?
 
I thought it was legal to ship spiders and scorpions via USPS. I've never received one~ or shipped one~ because I'd rather light my hair on fire...........
but for some reason I thought only snakes and mammals were a problem for USPS?
 
This comes from an online USPS listing. It was not dated but I am thinking it is current:

525.4 Poisonous Insects and Spiders
All poisonous insects and all spiders, except scorpions under limited circumstances (see 526.5), are nonmailable. Other nonpoisonous and non–disease–conveying insects are permitted as stated in DMM 601.9.3.9 and in Exhibit 526.6.
 
Unfortunately almost all arachnid folks ship illegally through USPS as you noted but they are closely followed by the Dendrobate people.
I've had this discussion more than once on other forums so I keep this info on file.
http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.pdf

The Regulations on shipping animals begin on page 77.

Page 80, Section 525.3 states; “All snakes, turtle and poisonous reptiles are nonmailable.”

Page 86, Section 526.6 lists “Small, Harmless, Cold-Blooded Animals” that are permitted.

Given the lousy record of the USPS on timely package delivery I really don't know how anyone would be willing to risk an animal by shipping through them.
 
I know a good bit of people ship frogs through them since it is permitted and tends to be a good bit cheaper. I'm still unsure about ever using them.

Now when you say illegal do you mean just illegal, or do you also mean "against company policy". I know a good amount of people ship harmless snakes through UPS which is not illegal, but is against company policy.
 
I agree that UPS would be a violation of company policy, unless of course you did not label the package properly which would be a violation of the Lacy Act making it a Federal Crime.

USPS is not a company but an department of the federal government and their regulations are laws violation of which is punishable by fine and imprisonment.

Now do people violate these laws? Most certainly they do, both in regard to the Lacy Act and the Postal Regulations, but that does not make it right.
 
Ok here is the skinny on it
scorps can ONLY be mailed usps if they are going to a lab or institution for venom research
spiders are a no-no
ups is by exception only..and that is almost never
fedex is on the same lines as ups...my rep here said it is ok for inverts.
One more thing ...not ALL invert dealers ship illegally thru usps...some of us follow the laws:iagree:
 
I heard that shipping snakes through usps was now legal. Does nayone know if it's true or not? I wouldn't do it partially because their tracking for a package is horrible. They seem to be really unreliable, especially when you really want not to be.

I am more curious as to how wide spread legal shipping is?
 
John E Dove said:
Unfortunately almost all arachnid folks ship illegally through USPS as you noted but they are closely followed by the Dendrobate people.
Click to expand...

How are Dendrobates illegal to ship through USPS? Frogs are explicitly allowed, and since the toxins of Dedrobatids are purely dietary, CB frogs are non-toxic and harmless.

Mokele
 
charleshanklin said:
I heard that shipping snakes through usps was now legal. Does nayone know if it's true or not?
Click to expand...

you are confusing USPS (US Postal Service) with UPS. UPS is in the works of maybe allowing it. Check with ProExotics as I believe they are the ones working with UPS to see if it's a feasible option for herpers.
 
Charles, there is a cite to the section of the USPS code a few posts up, you can go see for yourself. It is not a bad idea to go look at the law itself, since the fact that someone told you otherwise is usually not a good defense.

John Apple said:
One more thing ...not ALL invert dealers ship illegally thru usps...some of us follow the laws
Click to expand...

I am happy to hear it. There seems to be a group of people who DO ship illegally, and seem determined to have their cake and eat it too.
This group becomes vindictive when their lawless actions are questioned; yet at the same time they become indignant when lawmakers attempt legislation to restrict the sale or trade of their critters, or to prohibit the critters altogether.

These boards are not only for those who have critters as pets or for commerce, others are free to look in. When they do look in, and see threads where people say of breaking a particular law "everyone does it"; where they look in on major vendor sales lists who openly say they use USPS, even giving rates or sometimes free shipping for moving the critters that way, one can see why a reasonable lawmaker would want to shut down the critters altogether rather than create regulations that no one follows and that are flouted so openly that the prohibited USPS shipping option is on the vendor websites.

It seems to me that if we cannot police ourselves, others are only too glad to step in and do it for us. Many folks are not overly fond of these critters, and when a lawmaker proposes the critters should be banned, will not put up much of a fuss. I don't see how giving those lawmakers ammunition in the form of openly breaking regulations is going to help this industry.
 
lucille said:
Charles, there is a cite to the section of the USPS code a few posts up, you can go see for yourself. It is not a bad idea to go look at the law itself, since the fact that someone told you otherwise is usually not a good defense.



I was asking if anyone else had heard of this. I would not ship with usps if it was legal because of the reasons I stated. You are very right, ignorance does not work well in defense for breaking the law. I would do my research before changing anything I do that involves the law.
Click to expand...
 
Technically speaking shipping spiders is illegal through the USPS, however it is very common practice. It really depends on your local PO. I've shipped many tarantulas and scorps and have never had one problem with the USPS, and I even told them what I've got in the box.
 
Getting away with breaking the law may depend on your local PO but that does not mean it is any less criminal.
 
Mokele said:
How are Dendrobates illegal to ship through USPS? Frogs are explicitly allowed, and since the toxins of Dedrobatids are purely dietary, CB frogs are non-toxic and harmless.

Mokele
Click to expand...

How is a postman or ANYONE for that matter to know that the animal is CB? Because you told them? People lie. It's just easier to ban the species than to try to identify which frogs are CB and which are WC.
 
Technically, how is anyone supposed to know what's in the box, since they don't open it? You could be shipping a cobra, or half a kilo of heroin. By your logic, they should just ban shipping all herps, since you could easily substitute an illegal species for a legal one.
 
Mokele said:
Technically, how is anyone supposed to know what's in the box, since they don't open it? You could be shipping a cobra, or half a kilo of heroin. By your logic, they should just ban shipping all herps, since you could easily substitute an illegal species for a legal one.
Click to expand...

You think that they need to open your mail to get an idea what's in it? When was the last time you flew on an airplane?

The USPIS uses the same technologies that airports do (since many packages are transported by plane).

X-ray, dogs, IR, GC-FID, GCMS, etc...and they can open it if they have probable cause.
 
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