Inquiry Needing Dispute Resolution/Penalization of Account for Member BigRed

Recently, the seller BigRed and I agreed upon a sale of several box turtles through Fauna Classifieds, agreeing for me to paypak the agreed upon amount the morning of the day they were shipped.

Nearly a week later, BigRed emails me through Fauna Classifieds stating that someone has offered him more money, and that, in his own words "not that I'm trying to get you to pay more BUT..."

I have the documentation of all emails thought Fauna Classifieds.

How do I get resolution on this as we had a written agreement through the Fauna system for the sale at X amount?

How also is BigRed penalized through Faune Classifieds for such unethical behavior?

and the details of our most recent exchange where he broke a commitment to sell:

Originally Posted by earthyman71
Sorry Paul if you had any integrity you'd keep your word to sell me these three. Unbelievable. And the offer of a future deal doesn't mean anything and doesn't get me my investment back on the supplies i've purchased for these three.

This is of course as easy as saying to the other person, I'm sorry, these are already sold.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRed
Quote:
Originally Posted by earthyman71
Paul -
I'm sorry Sean if I mistreated you in any way, maybe I didn't handle the situation correctly, this selling stuff is new to me, no excuse though, when I get some more I promise I will sell to whoever puts a dep. down first, I think that is fair. When I get some more do you want me to contact you, I'll put 1 in for no charge for you getting a setup already, thanks, Paul I may have a female coming in for trade for snakes, let me know, sorry again, Paul

Just an FYI that I passed our exchange on to the monitors here. This really feels dishonest and wrong on your part and I wanted to let them know.

Not sure if sale agreements are binding via Fauna, but we did indeed have one.

Sean


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthyman71
Hello WebSlave -

Am writing because I think you're one of the monitors on Fauna.

I had inked a deal via email with BigRed for three boxies and was set to pay him on Monday. He writes me today with an attempt to shake down more money from me with the story that someone else is offering him more.

Not sure how this is covered by the rules of Fauna, but this surely is at least bad faith by this seller.

Thank you for listening - and a copy of our text exchange is below.

Sean



Quote:
Originally Posted by earthyman71
also incredibly frustrating and kinda depressing as i've invested in a new pen for them already and we have an oral agreement for a sale at a set price.

it's sad when all someone sees are dollar signs when it comes to these guys.

if you weren't trying to get anymore money from me you would have simply told the other person that they were sold.


thanks paul! will paypal on monday.
Hey Sean, someone is offering me $275.00 shipped, not trying to make you pay more but they really want them, let me know, thanks, Paul


]that works! as long as they deliver during business hours as i'd have them shipped to work.

a few quick questions:

captive bred?
healthy and eating well?
how is the shell rot on the one (can't tell if it's old or not)?
the female that won't slow down sounds like she might be ready to lay eggs. any other signs of that?

can paypal $ early monday morning.

thanks - sean
I was told cb, I rescued these bout 3 weeks ago,they were in an indoor half outdoor enclosure, pretty cool but subject to the elements,eating great on turtle food from petsmart, 1 of the females shell is really smooth on the bottom sides like she's been handled alot, as far as the active female she's always got her head out and not really shy at all, always moving, no other signs, paypal on Mon. is cool, you will have them by 3pm. on Tues, thanks, Paul
very cool. how do you ship? my zip is 15222.


3 for 150 shipped?

Hi there, sounds good to me, I'm paypal registered, I would like to ship on Mon. I have a lot planned this week, I'm starting a restaurant, my paypal info is [email protected], let me know, thanks, Paul 704 685 5358


I was using USPS to ship all my reptiles but I had to use ship your reptiles today for a purple retic because USPS said no snakes but I can still ship turtles and lizzards through them, so I'll use USPS next day air, I have to get something big enough to ship all 3, should be no problem, someone will need to be there to sign for them, other than that, that's it Paul

Fauna doesn't 'penalize' a member because of their alleged unethical behavior (unless the rules of the site are broken). Fauna cannot play the part of dispute resolver, the BOI is merely a forum where you can state your facts, and if you and the other party cannot resolve the issue yourselves, then at least the community at large can learn from your experience.

USPS does not accept turtles !

526.6 Small, Harmless, Cold–Blooded Animals

Small, harmless, cold–blooded animals, except for snakes, turtles, and turtle eggs, are mailable only when they meet certain requirements.

See the link at:
http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_007.htm


That is pasted from the USPS web site. They do accept lizards and amphibians but not turtles or snakes.

Andy Via
Richmond, Virginia

Thanks. It's unfortunate that Fauna, which demands so much information from those who post/buy here, doesn't offer any avenue for dispute resolution nor works to weed out unscrupulous or unethical sellers.

What about unethical buyers?

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter79/chap79toc.html

Please note section 79.3 & 79.10.

The BOI is here to bring to light people who are great sellers and those who are terrible sellers/breeders/buyers, etc. You can post here with everything and we will all see what has happened. Putting the names out helps those who are contemplating buying from said people. we search and see who has great customer service skills and such and those who stiffed their customers, shipping sick reptiles, those sending wrong animals/sex/morph, etc.

Already it seems that this guy is not someone to be trusted and if people read the post about how the turtles are to be sold to you but he sold them to someone else they would be more weary about buying from him until he does change. To buy or not to buy is up to the customer and with many people posting reviews on sellers we can get an accurate picture of who they are. after all, if reviews are sent to a web page do you think that the negative posts would be posted?

If you never gave the man the money then you don't have a case . 10 people a day tell me there going to buy my stuff but by the end of the week I'll be lucky to get one to really pay. A $ bill in the hand is worth 10 in the bush !

moving out of state bsarrah so no need for the lecture or moralizing thank you.

sorry oldworldlife there are honest people whose word means something out there

also you seem to be missing emails or your asking alot of ?'s and he's not answering them which maybe a good sign that you shouldn't of tried to do business with him.

and the shell being rubbed smooth is not from to much petting it is a sign of wild caught!

earthyman71 said:

Thanks. It's unfortunate that Fauna, which demands so much information from those who post/buy here, doesn't offer any avenue for dispute resolution nor works to weed out unscrupulous or unethical sellers.

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That information required to post classifieds (and the BOI) is for the benefit of the community at large. Further, in order to offer dispute resolution, one must have the authority to actually enforce such a resolution.

The BOI, by its very existance, can and does help 'weed out unscrupulous or unethical sellers'....and buyers as well.

1 of the females shell is really smooth on the bottom sides like she's been handled alot

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Now that's some funny stuff

what did he wipe the colors right off her with all the heavy petting

earthyman71 said:

moving out of state bsarrah so no need for the lecture or moralizing thank you.

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But getting them shipped to you while your in PA is still illegal.

earthyman71 said:

sorry oldworldlife there are honest people whose word means something out there

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I hate to be pessimistic but Corey is right. It simply does not make sense for a seller to hold the animals and take them off the market if you have not put a deposit down. I actually have stipulations that animals are not sold until money has changed hands. If I took down my adds every time someone said I'll pay you later tonight, I would not have many adds up at one time. Some sellers will hold an animal for you without a deposit but most will not.

Unless you put a deposit down on the animals he really didn't do anything wrong in my opinion. That's just the nature of the business. It does look kind of shady that he specifically told you that someone else had offered more money, as if he wanted you to pay more despite your previously agreed upon amount. If anything is BOI worthy of this transaction, this is it.

I understand you being upset, but I've gotten alot of emails and pm's on folks saying they will do this and do that and it never happends, what are you supposed to do, someone made an offer and I let you know, and you declined to match the offer, we chatted about this on Wed. and you decided to pay on Mon. not me, I gave you the chance to pay me then when I told you my paypal info, I don't like to just come out and say leave a dep. or pay in full because that scares off folks thinking I'm going to ripp them off. What if you were like the others and say I don't want the turtles and I've told another party they were sold, then try to go back to the other party and say come get them, what do you think they will say, something must be wrong with them cause they didn't buy them, well what? If it's something you want to purchase, PUT DOWN A DEPOSIT... Paul

If there's no deposit made, why should he hold them for you? If you're that interested in the animals, then put down a deposit. I don't know any breeder/seller that will hold an animal for you/someone without a deposit. And any that do normally lose out on a sale or two because they held without a deposit. (Something I definitely wouldn't do!) When I'm interested in an animal, I make a deposit or pay everything upfront right away to make sure that I can get a hold of that animal!

As for him asking if you want to match the offer, that's his prerogative. He didn't have a deposit from you, and was getting offered more for them than you were offering, and then he gave you the chance to match the offer, or do without. You chose to do without. While I don't agree with him coming back to you with the offer, he did offer you the chance to come up with the money for them since you inquired about them first.

I don't think this deserved a thread. Even if it was an "info" thread.

Next time, if you're that interested in an animal, PUT DOWN A DEPOSIT.

BigRed said:

I understand you being upset, but I've gotten alot of emails and pm's on folks saying they will do this and do that and it never happends, what are you supposed to do, someone made an offer and I let you know, and you declined to match the offer, we chatted about this on Wed. and you decided to pay on Mon. not me, I gave you the chance to pay me then when I told you my paypal info, I don't like to just come out and say leave a dep. or pay in full because that scares off folks thinking I'm going to ripp them off. What if you were like the others and say I don't want the turtles and I've told another party they were sold, then try to go back to the other party and say come get them, what do you think they will say, something must be wrong with them cause they didn't buy them, well what? If it's something you want to purchase, PUT DOWN A DEPOSIT... Paul

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There's a simple and professional way to handle this. You email the first person to say "Just to let you know. I have had quite a bit of interest in XXX. My general policy is that whoever pays first gets the animal." Done....

What is not professional is to say "Hey someone else just offered me more money and unless you can match it I am selling to them." That's just a shady thing to do. You agreed to the price and the buyer should not have to pay more because you had someone else offer you more. Unless you are running an auction your negotiations with other potential buyers have no bearing on your negotiations with a separate buyer. Even if you do have someone offer you more money, your original negotiated price should still be held unless the other person pays first.

true, no deposit means it is not a guaranteed sale. while a sum was decided upon a small deposit would have meant it was to be sold to you. he should have been more professional about how he said what he said but the fact of the matter is money talks.

If you are serious always put a deposit down. sorry about your disappointment with the matter.

garweft said:

But getting them shipped to you while your in PA is still illegal.

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Good point, Bart and Matthew. Possession of certain box turtles are not allowed at all where the OP lives.

earthyman71 said:

moving out of state bsarrah so no need for the lecture or moralizing thank you.

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If the particular variety of turtle you planned to buy is legal, please provide the statute of the state where you resided at the time you proposed to have the turtles shipped to you. Your future residential plans are irrelevant.
On the other hand, if you are trying to buy illegal turtles, why would you expect help from this community?