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Starting a rat colony, a few questions!

AdamR

AdamR

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So I've decided it would be nice to have some live rats on hand for my snakes that simply will not take frozen and for the babies while I'm getting them started eating.

I have 2 large tubs so far and 1.2 breeders. One female has 7 large babies that she is almost done weaning (or they simply haven't decided to eat their food yet). The other female has 6 pinkies that she had just a few days ago. My question is, Do I put the breeder male with the female who's babies are almost weaned? Should I move the babies to the mom with the pinkies? Or should I find another tub to keep the male in? I just don't want the male to kill the young ones.

Any advice would be helpful!
 
You don't "need" to pull the male at all...

However, allowing a mother to nurse her babies without the burden of pregnancy results normally in higher survival rates and babies grow much quicker.

6 and 7 babies is super low....what food are you using?

I've never seen a rat get pregnant anywhere near 5 weeks...so no worries.
 
I bought the females and their babies from another guy just to get me started so I didnt actually produce these babies. They are on Ol' Roy dog food. Is that ok?
 
y feed dog food rat blocks are better and cheaper i keep 1:5 never pulling males and get avg depending on age of rat 12-15 babies. I retire breeders after 1 yr to 1 1/2 yrs. red dye in dog food is no good for snakes
 
Where do I get rat blocks? Feed store? So do I keep 1:5 in the same tub? My tubs are 22"x15". Do I leave the babies in there when they are born? Seems like a crowded area! Sorry about all the questions!
 
Mazuri 6f is $25/50lbs
doggie bag dog food $14/40 lbs.

hard to compete with the doggie bag but Mazuri does yield better results for me.
 
I checked Mazuri's website and there is a feed store near me that carries that kind so I'll go ASAP! I live in an apartment so I'd like to keep my colony in 2 maybe 3 tubs so what would be the max amount of adults per tub? And do I need to move those with babies to another tub?
 
I worked in an animal lab for years.

Standard breeding practice is to keep housed males alone, and keep 2 females together. When you want to breed them, put females into males tank one at a time for a week or so. If the male lives with the females they will not breed as eagerly.

Once bred, females can be housed together again and will have their litters together usually without a problem as long as the cage is big enough that they can make nests in different corners.

However, as you currently have two litters in two different tanks, I would not put the two families together at this point - I'd leave them apart and find a third tub for the male. Once the babies are weaned you can put the mothers together.
 
AdamR said:
I checked Mazuri's website and there is a feed store near me that carries that kind so I'll go ASAP! I live in an apartment so I'd like to keep my colony in 2 maybe 3 tubs so what would be the max amount of adults per tub? And do I need to move those with babies to another tub?
Click to expand...

I'd have:
1 breeder male in small tub, alone.
2 females in 1 tub, together, and allow them to have their litter there
3rd tub to put weaned young in until they reach the size you want to use
 
The answer solely depends on your opinions and needs.


Harem style breeding produces more young per year but they tend to grow much slower than allowing mothers to dedicate nursing time. Keeping mothers single with their young "normally" reduces the chance of them killing the litter.

My racks use large(3'x2') and small mortar tubs. I use harem style breeding. I have for many many years with GREAT SUCCESS.

Small mortar pans I run 1.4 large 1.8.
With good food, proper temps and humidity and a constant supply of clean water you should yield a average of 10+ young per female per month when averaged over a year time frame.

I use doggy bag dog food for my rats. I have 6F on hand for my ASF and will use it formy rats if in a pinch. My rats choose the doggie bag over the mazuri 99 out of 100 times.
 
i get mazuri 21 a 50lb bag. i cant find 50 lb dog food for cheaper. red dye in dog food is no good for ball pythons can cause problems and most dog food has it
 
My feed store is having to order the Mazurri (which worked out bc I just had them order some Mazurri tortoise food too!) so I got a 40lb bag of "dye-free" dog food. I now have 2 small mortar tubs and 2 large lab rat tubs. What would be the best way to arrange my rats? I have 1.2 adult breeders, 5 pups that are weaned now, and a litter of pinks. I'm hoping to grow the weaned rats up and use the females.
 
pmp187 said:
red dye in dog food is no good for ball pythons can cause problems and most dog food has it
Click to expand...
Please show evidence or proof of this statement please.
I have seen statements online that claim the red dye causes rats to develop tumors. However, I have never seen a shred of evidence to support the claim that it has ill effects on any snakes in second hand form.
 
AdamR said:
My feed store is having to order the Mazurri (which worked out bc I just had them order some Mazurri tortoise food too!) so I got a 40lb bag of "dye-free" dog food. I now have 2 small mortar tubs and 2 large lab rat tubs. What would be the best way to arrange my rats? I have 1.2 adult breeders, 5 pups that are weaned now, and a litter of pinks. I'm hoping to grow the weaned rats up and use the females.
Click to expand...
Depends on what you hope to accomplish.

I would have the 1.2+ pinks in a mortar tub. The weaned rats in the other mortar tub.
 
I keep 0.2 in 12 different racks and rotate the male to a new tub every week. I've also kept 0.1 in 6 different racks and rotate the male every two weeks. I'm sure I'm going against the grain here, but to keep any animal constantly pregnant is not humane. I give the females 12 weeks in between births to rebuild fat deposits and put weight back on. Weanlings are pulled in between 3-4 weeks and develop fine.
 
Focal X said:
I keep 0.2 in 12 different racks and rotate the male to a new tub every week. I've also kept 0.1 in 6 different racks and rotate the male every two weeks. I'm sure I'm going against the grain here, but to keep any animal constantly pregnant is not humane. I give the females 12 weeks in between births to rebuild fat deposits and put weight back on. Weanlings are pulled in between 3-4 weeks and develop fine.
Click to expand...

areas where rats colonize in large numbers, the females will breed in the same/timeframe in the wild. So I can't see how doing what they do naturally is "not humane". The only problem I see with your technique is that you have reduced you amount of litters drastically. Breeding rats beyond their optimal breeding time and causing health problems would be by far less humane than breeding them back to back. With that said, rats really shouldn't be bred past 2 years of age ( mine are only alive 19 months max). Limits your rats to less than 5litters in their life "humanely".(I get 12+)
 
suzuki4life said:
areas where rats colonize in large numbers, the females will breed in the same/timeframe in the wild. So I can't see how doing what they do naturally is "not humane".
Click to expand...

And they live short lives, die from breeding underage, and once carried bubonic plague. Just because "it happens" doesn't make it right. Ball pythons can also breed at 700-800 grams in the wild and can become eggbound and die. Should we do it?

If they do it in the wild, it can't be considered humane:

hu·mane (hy-mn)
adj.
1. Characterized by kindness, mercy, or compassion: a humane judge.
2. Marked by an emphasis on humanistic values and concerns: a humane education


suzuki4life said:
The only problem I see with your technique is that you have reduced you amount of litters drastically.
Click to expand...

No, I have increased the amount of work, retain the same amount of litters but have a higher output of babies because my females are larger, healthier, and have a better way of life. Not sure if you missed it, but I breed MORE rats so they can have a LONGER period in between birthing.


suzuki4life said:
Breeding rats beyond their optimal breeding time and causing health problems would be by far less humane than breeding them back to back. With that said, rats really shouldn't be bred past 2 years of age ( mine are only alive 19 months max)
Click to expand...

Nobody said that was fine and actually, they shouldn't be bred past 18 months since this is the prime period for menopause and if yours only live 19 months, I think that should say something. My females are retired at 12 months so I guess I have even less litters :(

http://www.ratbehavior.org/RatYears.htm


suzuki4life said:
Limits your rats to less than 5litters in their life "humanely".(I get 12+)
Click to expand...

I think that statement proves my point. Being humane isn't squeezing as many rats out as possible in their lifetime. Yes, my rats will have less litters, but will live longer and have a better way of life at the expense of what? More work on my part? :thumbsup:
 
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