Rescued Burmese

Hello, I posted a similar thread in a different section, because I didn't read down far enough to see the "health issues" so I am posting this thread again.

In short I rescued a burmese python and a RTB, guy is being stationed on military base, they are both in poor condition and are going to be taken to the vet.

I just came here to share photos and maybe get some "advice" as to what some of the "bruise" like marks could be.











RTB:







Again, I am sorry about the picture quality, I will try to find my actual camera and see if I can get better shots.

Here is the link to my original post:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365496

The Red tail looks to have mouth rot, not too sure about the "bruise"

I took the burm to the vet today, they didn't really give me an explanation or anything for the "bruises" although they said one was getting infected. I have to inject her once a day for 10-15 days.

I have a theory though...but tell me if it's incorrect.
I think that it is sunburn. A really bad sunburn will give you blisters.
When I picked up the snakes they had strip lights that came along. Both had 5.0 UVB bulbs in them. Once I got the snakes home I switched them to ceramic heat.
I think it may be possible that she got sunburn from the UVB, although I'm not certain if its strong enough, but that's the only thing I can think of...

I soaked her last night and got her shed off and the marks were clearly blisters.
This morning the one really bad one looked like it had fluid.

Did you inquire with your vet about their experience with reptiles? Do you know the name of the injection they instructed you to give them and the dosages? A lot of people that self administer like to use Tylan when they only see the beginning signs of a RI or similar, but Tylan will not help with a serious problem like what you have.

It is difficult to tell from that pic, but it could be a burn or maybe scale rot. UVB light is unneeded and a waste of energy and resources with Burms and RTBs. Save the bulbs though, they are expensive. There is nothing wrong with using lamps(spot or ceramic) for a hot spot, but the best solution is to use UTH of some form whether it be Flexwatt or a store bought heating pad with thermostat for either. Lamps can cause the humidity to drop quickly and make it hard to maintain. I do know that UVB bulb packs have warnings on them about too much human contact with them so maybe that could be part of a problem, but I wouldn't think so. I have had great success with a temp of low 90's on one side with mid 80's on the other for Burms. RTB I have not kept before so can't say. Maybe someone else can chime in for a good temps to keep them at with these problems.

Mouthrot is a serious problem, but I have never had to deal with it myself so hopefully someone else can chime in for that as well.

Do they seem to handle ok or do the spots seems sensitive to the touch. Are they aggressive at all. Usually an aggressive animal is aggressive for a reason. Did the vet say it looked like a blister and could it possibly be lanced. Have you fed them and what was it and size if so?

I would not feed them until you at least get a good result and see a little improvement in their health. They can go a very very long time without food even when they are thin. When you do feed them make sure you give them a small meal just in case. I would stick to something a little smaller than their mid section thickness. I will just help reduce stress and help prevent a regurge if that could be the reason they haven't pooped. You can bulk them up later on. I would also leave them alone in their cages and not handle them other than to check on them and clean/feed/water them. If they seem nervous or aggressive, you can cover the glass of the cages with a bed sheet to reduce lighting and keep them from seeing movment in the room as much. Make sure the bed sheet isn't near a heat source like heat pad or lamp. I would also feed them inside their cage if you don't already, just so you don't have to handle them as much. If they end up with a feeding response in the cage, that can be dealt with at a later time. I personally always feed in their cages. Burms and I believe RTBs are very hardy animals and if you caught it in time, with the proper care, they should recover well.

Try to get you hands on a better camera and get some better pics posted up. Also pics of the their housing would help to make sure they are in proper housing. Did you get the caging from the previous owner or have/get your own? What are the temps they are at on the hot spot and the cold side. Do they get a nightime drop or just loose their hotspot? Do they have UTH heating along with the ceramic heater? Are they in a main living area or a room where it is quite? Stress can take a problem and make it worse.

Keep up the good work and a vet visit was definatly the right move.

The more info you post the more people can help.

Jacob

Thank you for your input.
The vet gave me 40cc of Baytril. 1 dose/per day for 10-15 days.
I was aware that they didn't need UVB lighting, I was just wondering if UVB would give the burm sunburn, which would lead to her blisters.
The one big blister looked better today than yesterday. It's less red and less tender although it stills looks like there is fluid in it.

both of their hot spots are around the 90's and around the lower 80's for the cool.
I am getting my hands on some flexwatt soon, although I've never used it before.
The blisters on the burm were def tender as she winced/pulled away when I touched them (as stated above they were better today). She is a very sweet girl, but she was agitated with me today and wasn't afraid to let me know. I think the shots are making her sore.

When I first saw the RTB the mouth looked like it was a previous case and was healed. Today I noticed it wheezing and some extra saliva so I've gotta make an apt. for it right away, hopefully I can get one for tomorrow. The RTB is also very nice, wiggles like a worm, but very nice.

The RTB came in what looks like a 38G bowfront, but I switched it into a 55G tank. The burm came in a 40B, which I think is ok for a hospital tank. I am planning on moving her to my 125G as soon as I craft a lid for it and then I plan on building a nice enclosure for her.

The cages were so filthy when I picked them up, there were feces, prey, and old shed stuck to the glass. It was disgusting! I cleaned the heck outta both cages. I am surprised they don't have scale rot actually....

I have the burm in my room where it is quite and the RTB is in another room where it is also quite. I took your advice about covering her cage and she seemed to move into that area when I did, so I hope that is helping her feel better.

The RTB has not eaten or defecated for me yet, I am gonna give it some time and once it sees a vet I'll wait until its treatment is over.
The burm took 2 large f/t rats 4 days before she saw the vet, so that should hold her over until her treatment is over.

I keep their ceramics on at night because the rooms they are in "naturally" drop in temp and I don't want it to get too cold and make their RI's get worse.

I have to take the burm out to give her her shots as I need someone to hold her still, but other than that she is in her cage.

I will try and find a better camera and get some pictures.

I have them on newsprint. The RTB has a hide and a water bowl and the burm has a water bowl and her tank is now a hide as I covered it. (although I keep seeing her move her head to the only uncovered spot.)

I am so disappointed in their condition. I just can't believe some people are so thoughtless.
I love them both so much already and I've only had them since Friday. I can't imagine what I'd do if it's too late.

You are def. doing the right thing keeping a vet involved.

You do have to handle them to give them shots, but the aggression will probably subside after they are felling better. If not, you can work with them at that time. Using a hook when you get them out can help a lot.

As far as the RTB not eating. Once he is felling better he may be willing o eat. It may hurt for him to try even with mouthrot. I have heard of it coming back repeatedly if it is not comepletly taken care of, so this may be a recurrence.

If he doesn't eat after he is healing you can try live(if you don't already) or chicken. My burms love chicken, but I don't make it a habit other than to bulk them up for breeding. Wash everything includinh yourself very well with chicken.

Jacob

Haven't read through the rest of this yet, but my first thoughts looking at those pictures of the burm would be to look into septicemia. That looks systemic for sure.

ETA - Just saw the comment about fluid filled blisters. Have a look into blister disease as well.

For the boa, mouth rot or a nose injury that's been left to get ugly.

Good luck getting them both back to health.

According to Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septicemia

OMG, that is some scary stuff. I have never run into it the few years I have been in this hobby. I would get her back to the vet for a second follow up to very correct diagnosis. Also, have them check the RTB for the same thing because they have probably had contact or at least improper cleaning between handling multiple animals.

copied from wiki

"In addition to symptoms related to the provoking infection, sepsis is frequently associated with either fever or hypothermia, rapid breathing, and a rapid heart rate. Sepsis may also lead to a drop in blood pressure, resulting in shock. This may result in light-headedness. Bruising or intense bleeding may also occur."


Also, I don't it's been mentioned yet. Make sure you wash yourself and any tools you use very well, not only for yourself, but to protect it from spreading to other animals/pets if it is something transferable like that.

After reading that, I wish you good luck and hope that is not the case.

Please keep us posted as to what the vet has to say about the RTB and the Burm if you get her back in.

Jacob

Just got back from the vet with the RTB. They said that the facial damage was an old scar. They gave me some more Baytril to start injections on it.

I don't think the blisters on bunny are septicemia as the marks look a TON better after 4 shots. The worst one is slightly pinkish in the middle to were its almost her normal color and it's slightly less raised and the fluid look is practically gone. The marks still have a way to go, but they look a lot better. I diluted some Iodine in her bath today so hopefully that helps a little too.
Also, if this were the issue I think the RTB would also being showing signs as well, but it's skin was in good shape, just the face and an RI.

It seems as though blister disease starts on the belly and travels and the treatment is what she is already on, so if it is that it's already being treated





I borrowed these pictures from this site: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/225332-blister-disease.html

I tried to take some pictures with a REAL camera, but I think they came out just as bad. I will post them shortly.

I have never fed a snake chicken before, but it seems interesting... I am keeping them on f/t unless the RTB absolutely REFUSES. frozen is just so much easier and safer for them IMO.

Overall I'm pretty hopeful these guys will recover well. I will definitely keep my eyes peeled for any worsening of any kind.

Thank you guys for your feedback. I've never dealt with sick snakes and injections and all this good stuff so everything is really helpful!

what cage conditions do you have them in?? substrate, heat/humidity, type of cage. Baytril injections are not good overall for snakes. especially long term ones like a week or more. I work in veterinary medicine aned specialize in reptile/amphibian medicine (I mostly work emergency/critical care) and do rescue on the side. Feel free to pm me, email me ([email protected]) or I can give my cell number to you in a pm or email and we can text about what you need to do.