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Is there hope?? Kinked Baby

TacticalMorphs

TacticalMorphs

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On my second clutch ever I got this spider with a kink. I am wondering does this look like it would survive? I only ask because I don't want him to suffer.




 
That looks pretty bad, and is probably going to get more pronounced as it gets older, if it survives.

Personally, I'd euthanize it.
 
Doing the right thing is often difficult!

I must agree with Shadera, that looks bad. In the wild this animal would not survive and even though we could "save" it, as such, the question becomes should we? This animal would have a horrible life of difficulty and possibly painfully so. I applaud you for being upfront and asking the community for advice, I agree the animal is the main priority here.

Unfortunately, there is another side to reality though. Each of us that takes upon ourselves the responsibility of breeding also takes the responsibility of the reputation and standards of practice that reflect upon the whole community. The "animal police" for lack of a better term, would love to find such an animal in the trade to exploit the irresponsibility of humans for profit and would not consider you were trying to be gracious and providing a safe haven for such a handicapped creature. Sorry for preaching. But again doing the right thing is often difficult.
 
its all up to you. if your willing to help him his whole life. I have a twisted (pug dog tail) carpet python that is fine nothing wrong with him at all and I have tried to save a ball that had a really bad overbite he was so funny looking and I couldn't help it he would eat with me helping him put it him his mouth but he died after 3 months. its all up to you buddy. I had to help mine his short life he was a bumble bee. and im happy he got to live the 3 months I spent with him he was very healthy
 
preacher said:
I must agree with Shadera, that looks bad. In the wild this animal would not survive and even though we could "save" it, as such, the question becomes should we? This animal would have a horrible life of difficulty and possibly painfully so. I applaud you for being upfront and asking the community for advice, I agree the animal is the main priority here.

Unfortunately, there is another side to reality though. Each of us that takes upon ourselves the responsibility of breeding also takes the responsibility of the reputation and standards of practice that reflect upon the whole community. The "animal police" for lack of a better term, would love to find such an animal in the trade to exploit the irresponsibility of humans for profit and would not consider you were trying to be gracious and providing a safe haven for such a handicapped creature. Sorry for preaching. But again doing the right thing is often difficult.
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:iagree: This pretty much sums it up. In all honesty I would euthanize it. There comes a point where it's not in the best interest of the animal and this kink looks pretty bad. Your call and I support which ever decision you make. Good luck!
 
Cull it. It is the most humane thing to do. If it does eat, does not look like it will be able to pass it. I personally would put it in a plastic bag and freeze it.
 
The American Veterinary Medical Association does not consider freezing to be an acceptable form of euthanasia for reptiles, primarily because they may still be able to feel the pain of ice crystals forming in their flesh despite not being able to react to it.

AVMA said:
Cooling—It has been suggested that, when using physical methods of euthanasia in ectothermic species, cooling to 4 C will decrease metabolism and facilitate handling, but there is no evidence that whole body cooling reduces pain or is clinically efficacious. Local cooling in frogs does reduce nociception, and this may be partly opioid mediated. Immobilization of reptiles by cooling is considered inappropriate and inhumane even if combined with other physical or chemical methods of euthanasia. Snakes and turtles, immobilized by cooling, have been killed by subsequent freezing. This method is not recommended. Formation of ice crystals on the skin and in tissues of an animal may cause pain or distress. Quick freezing of deeply anesthetized animals is acceptable.
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The AVMA recommends forms of euthanasia that result it "rapid loss of consciousness." Freezing may not result in loss of consciousness in reptiles and amphibians. Thus, the only effective method of euthanizing reptiles without the use of drugs is a crushing blow to the head that destroys the brain.

If you would like to use drugs, you can use a commercial euthanasia solution (sodium pentobarbital 390 mg + sodium phenytoin 50 mg/ml). Source: http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/euthanasia.html

Freezing is not, I repeat, NOT, a humane death for reptiles, amphibians, or fish, despite its widespread use among hobbyists. Sometimes the most appropriate form of action (blow to the head) is the hardest to do for us, but the best thing to do for the animal in lieu of drugs.
 
:iagree:
This crops up every now and again, and freezing a live reptile is NOT considered humane. If you decide to cull this baby (and personally I would do that), the best way for the snake would probably be to COOL (not freeze) it in a fridge for half an hour or so to slow it down and make it torpid, then place a paper towel over the head and give it a fast crushing blow that totally destroys the brain.
I know it sounds rough, but it's fast and humane.
 
snowgyre said:
The American Veterinary Medical Association does not consider freezing to be an acceptable form of euthanasia for reptiles, primarily because they may still be able to feel the pain of ice crystals forming in their flesh despite not being able to react to it.



The AVMA recommends forms of euthanasia that result it "rapid loss of consciousness." Freezing may not result in loss of consciousness in reptiles and amphibians. Thus, the only effective method of euthanizing reptiles without the use of drugs is a crushing blow to the head that destroys the brain.

If you would like to use drugs, you can use a commercial euthanasia solution (sodium pentobarbital 390 mg + sodium phenytoin 50 mg/ml). Source: http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/euthanasia.html

Freezing is not, I repeat, NOT, a humane death for reptiles, amphibians, or fish, despite its widespread use among hobbyists. Sometimes the most appropriate form of action (blow to the head) is the hardest to do for us, but the best thing to do for the animal in lieu of drugs.
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:iagree:

And just to add, most reptile vets can euthanize for less than $50. I actually use my local exotic vet when the need arises just because I can't bare to do the deed myself.
 
Definitely freezing is old school and considered a bad practice and should be avoided. Out side of a $50 vet trip, skull crushing is the most humane and instantaneous way to kill. But it takes courage.
 
I do agree that thee are other methods but for the majority of people you have to look at the options..........
1. Vet. Where we got to Tom Boyer (one of the seven board certified reptile specialist) that can attest they we spend A LOT of money to have labs done on any possibly sick animals including sending samples to Florida and Chicago, the vast majority might not be able to afford that route
2. Smashing their heads. I agree this is the most humane way to do it as it is quick. If its not done right the first time, they must smash the head of a snake in again that they usually don't want to kill in the first place. We had a litter of puppies once and the mom tearing the umbilical cord tore a hole in the puppies stomach. I knew there was no way it would live but I could not bring myself to kill it. I was so angry that night I kicked the crap out of my punching bad because I knew it was suffer ending but I could not bring myself to kill it. I will not put that on anyone. Those that can smash its head in, rock on.
3. Freeze. This method works and doesn't cost them money if they don't have it. It's easier mentally to drop in the freezer and no blood, no smashing, nothing.

We can argue all day long on what's best but in the end the best is to end the snakes suffering in a manor that you CAN handle doing. Doing nothing is far worse than anything.
 
Randy F said:
We can argue all day long on what's best but in the end the best is to end the snakes suffering in a manor that you CAN handle doing. Doing nothing is far worse than anything.
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I would want the animal to go as quickly as possible and I for sure know that many on here would not be able to smash a snakes head with a hammer or what not. The whole debate with freezing reptiles is a tough one, but when it comes down to it I would rather the animal not suffer for a week and be frozen in one day then a weeks worth of suffering. I have yet to do either, just my opinions.
 
Randy F said:
3. Freeze. This method works and doesn't cost them money if they don't have it. It's easier mentally to drop in the freezer and no blood, no smashing, nothing.

We can argue all day long on what's best but in the end the best is to end the snakes suffering in a manor that you CAN handle doing. Doing nothing is far worse than anything.
Click to expand...

Let me be very clear... there is no argument in the veterinary or scientific world. Freezing reptiles to death, unless first deeply anesthetized, is not humane.

The point is that with freezing, the animals may actually be AWARE that they are slowly freezing to death and feel the pain of ice crystals forming in their flesh. Freezing will kill reptiles, but is just as inhumane as letting an animal suffer from any other prolonged, painful, terminal ailment. It may be easier on the person, but it is probably a horrible way to die for the animal.

If you can't bring yourself to humanely euthanize a reptile (freezing is not an option), then you should bring someone over to your house to do the deed for you. We always discuss standards of living for reptiles on these forums, but hardly ever do we actually discuss standards of death. If we're bringing animals into this world we must be prepared to take them out of this world in the most humane way possible.

Everyone should have a euthanasia plan once they start breeding animals, with money set aside if necessary to pay the inexpensive vet bill if you are incapable of euthanizing an animal yourself.
 
snowgyre said:
Everyone should have a euthanasia plan once they start breeding animals, with money set aside if necessary to pay the inexpensive vet bill if you are incapable of euthanizing an animal yourself.
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I agree, but there again I believe they should have plans for housing and keeping of them as well. We have spent more with Dr. Boyer than many have in their collection, but many don't ever see a vet for anything. We built our building where some use tubs on heat pads. I started using tub liners so that the snakes have a far cleaner tub despite the cost where some change their news paper every week or two. No matter how much people preach what's right, most won't listen. You can tell people drinking one drink and driving is still wrong, but how many will agree as they order a drink? I agree that maybe I should have led with the vet, but I am accustomed to how the vast majority of people think. No matter what it is hard. I am man enough to admit I have cried like a little girl at a vets and thanked God that I took a snake to the vets to get euthanized that my partner had for about 15 years and he didn't have to. No matter what I will never be able to tell someone to smash a snakes head even though it is the fastest, cost effective way to do it. If that makes me a horrible reptile keeper I will be expecting to see my face in the next PETA ad.
 
Randy F said:
I agree, but there again I believe they should have plans for housing and keeping of them as well. We have spent more with Dr. Boyer than many have in their collection, but many don't ever see a vet for anything. We built our building where some use tubs on heat pads. I started using tub liners so that the snakes have a far cleaner tub despite the cost where some change their news paper every week or two. No matter how much people preach what's right, most won't listen. You can tell people drinking one drink and driving is still wrong, but how many will agree as they order a drink? I agree that maybe I should have led with the vet, but I am accustomed to how the vast majority of people think. No matter what it is hard. I am man enough to admit I have cried like a little girl at a vets and thanked God that I took a snake to the vets to get euthanized that my partner had for about 15 years and he didn't have to. No matter what I will never be able to tell someone to smash a snakes head even though it is the fastest, cost effective way to do it. If that makes me a horrible reptile keeper I will be expecting to see my face in the next PETA ad.
Click to expand...

It doesn't make you a horrible reptile keeper. Just means that you are human. I personally wouldn't ever smash their heads in or freeze them. Instead I keep a small vet fund stashed away for when the need arises.
 
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