Dan Poe & Dan Lubinsky - Worst of the Unethical Worst

I am sure many of you have read the thread that started in the Leopard Gecko Discussion forum. This subject did NOT belong there, and should have been moved to the BOI in my opinion yet the topic and information in the begining oof the thread did not warrent such a move.

Please refer to the thread here and continue as you see fit. These individuals have alot to answer for and should be avoided at ALL COSTS. Both have lied regarding this matter and it has been well documented.

Chris,

Can you post a link to the original thread to make it easier to find it later on?

Thanks.

Since this thread was started, i thought that the two in question were bad people. Now that they can't seem to sut the hell up they are even worse than a lot of us knew. I feel that Alex has EVERY right to be pissed off at these two little trolls! And i think that these two should answer to everything that was asked of them and then some.

So like Chris said avoid these two rip off artists at all cost, because aparently the only thing these two looser believe in is the ALMIGHTY dollor. Not ethics, nor their animals.

After a long afternoon of finishing some furniture pieces, I thought I would come in , crack a beer, and read something interesting...I couldn't make it through all 58-odd pages, but...good heavens! What were they thinking???
Glad you brought this to the BOI, as I never read the leopard gecko stuff...would never have known! Thanks!
greg

Nevermind. I see the link. Sorry for the double post.

A quick rundown......

Between 11/28/04 and 12/14/04 Dan Poe contacted Alex Hue NUMEROUS times about possibly purchasing a Mack Line Co-Dominant Snow Leopard Gecko.

Many of you know that this is a VERY new project and Alex has taken great steps to ensure everyone who invests in this project is protected. He has screened potential buyers with a proverbial battery of questions to determine who would best suit this lines potential by the purchasers intent.

For multiple reasons, Dan Poe was denied. Considering a buyer reserves the right to deny sales this is a cut and dry situation.

That did not stop Dan Poe.

Literally days pass and Dan Lubinsky contacts Alex Hue regarding a Mack Snow Purchase on the 12/16/04. A mere 48 hours after Dan Poe recieved his final denial. How ironic. He tells Alex everything he wants to hear in order to seal the potential purchase and mentions nothing of Dan Poe.

At this point his intentions are not clear and seem genuine, Alex proceed to begin a transaction. On 1/05/04 the animal is shipped overnight through UPS to Dan Lubinsky and he recieves it the morning of 1/06/04.

A special note, the specimen Dan Lubinsky purchases is the EXACT same one Dan Poe was interested in. Again, how ironic.

Dan Lubinsky voices concern on 1/07/04 about a discrepincy in the weight of the animal and is offered a 100% refund by alex. He declines and keeps the animal. Or so we thought.........

On 1/10/05, LITERALLY FOUR DAYS AFTER THE ANIMAL HAD ARRIVED, DAN LUBINSKY SHIPS THE SPECIMEN TO DAN POE! (After pairing with a few of his females of course)

And AGAIN, how ironic.

In the begining they both stated they were not in league. As conversations progressed this proved to be a lie. Mr. Lubinsky cited issues regarding a potential sports car purchase in the fall and claimed he decided to sell the animal. It was never posted or offered for sale publicly and within days it was shipped and sold. Later they state they DID have a prior arangement, but it was simply a breeding loan....

There are MANY MANY more details to this story, including some VERY frightening information about possible protazoan infections in one or both of thier collections. Both have also exercized comeple and total lack of respect for fellow breeders and have tried twisting all of these facts to thier benifit or simply ignoring or denying allegations.


This will not stand, and the truth WILL be heard. Regardless of which, both can not and WILL not be trusted..

I'll let the others involved in this discussion elaborate more on the details.

Jim, the link is in the 2nd paragraph - the word "here" with the underline but fhere is the link seperated out.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66276&page=1&pp=20

Jim O said:

Nevermind. I see the link. Sorry for the double post.

Click to expand...

No problem at all Jim!

Jim O said:

Chris,

Can you post a link to the original thread to make it easier to find it later on?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Jim all you should do is click on the word here with the underline

Thank you both/all for your assistance. When I read "Please refer to the thread here and continue as you see fit." I thought that "here" was underlined to emphasize that it should remain "here" as in here on the BOI. My bad. LOL.

I just wanted to add for newcomers or ones who search for business names only:

Dan Poe -- fauna ID - groovygeckos
sites -- http://www.freewebs.com/groovygeckos/ & www.groovygeckos.com

Dan Lubinsky -- fauna ID - Dan Lubinsky (no site listed)

Some interesting quotes you guys can compare....

Dan Lubinsky said:

After seeing the specs on the new Corvette Z06 coming out in the fall, the snow and some more fatties (invoice from Leos Anonymous encl.) went up for sale. Dan Poe zoomed in and bought the male snow - he even offered a baby or two.

Click to expand...

groovygeckos said:

i bought a few animals from Dan several months ago , and we have been trading pictures and an occasional e-mail .
he told me he was selling his Snow , i bought it .

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Dan Lubinsky said:

I purchased the animal on 12/29 according to the copy I posted. I figured it might make a white albino with orange spots that doesn't darken. Dan P. said he was broke so I even offered to breed some of his females with it at that time

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Dan Lubinsky said:

I received the male, put him with the 3 females pictured for a few days, saw him breeding them and sent him off to Dan P.

Click to expand...

Good quarantine procedues by the way, both of you! I'm sure EVERYONE will be willing to risk purchasing specimens from people that show such great conern about the health and welfare of live animals. Not only regarding quarantine, but the willingness to ship a poor animal TWICE in such a short period of time, cross country, in winter weather no less. Talk about scum.

And to continue with my quote whoring........

Dan Lubinsky said:

Dan was the one that told me about your snows in =
the first place and when I told him I had one he wanted to do breeding =
loans, etc. So I sold it to him.

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I might ad that Dan L only mentioned selling said specimen AFTEr he was confronted a matter of a day or two ago... Dan Poe refused to post pictures of the adult in fear of it being identified by Alex Hue. For people who apparently did not conspire or do anything wrong, they certainly are secretive arent they? They went out of thier way to pile up the cooincidences as well huh? Anyone dumb enough to buy their brand of BS?? lol

groovygeckos said:

i am pretty sure , he would not be introducing an animal of unknown health to any of his collection .

nor would i !

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Right. The original thread started by you posting a hatchling mack snow, or what you claim to be a hatchling mack snow. Given the timeline you would have had to pair them up IMMEDIATELY to have a hatchling by now. And Dan L. has already openly admitted to doing so, in fact he only had it over a weekend and paired it with three females! How responsible and cautious!

groovygeckos said:

no parasites have come from my collection . each group from each breeder is seperate , quaranteened , i work with them on seperate days even , use gloves , god what else , you have no idea and have been taking fecal samples to my vet as often as i can get it very fresh .

i know exactly what i am doing here . i am not some child that you can talk about in this way !

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LOL!!! That right there had to be my favorite........

Dan Lubinsky said:

I already told you Dan said he couldn't afford the animal and I'd offered to do a breeding loan even before delivery. Signing off.

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OK, im done for now, I'm sure I'll have some more later knowing these two clowns...

ok in the "other thread" we saw a photo of the gecko at Dan L.'s house prior but have not seen one picture of it at Dan P's a current one... i wonder how it looks now?

He can snap a photo of a hatchling, but cannot provide a photo of the adult...

You actually think Dan would be so forthcoming? LOL

Unfortunately, there are unethical people in every business. These two, assuming they are two different people, are obviously unethical. A seller has a right to choose his customers so long as he is consistent in his criteria and non-discriminatory. Having done business with Alex Hue I know he is above board and a real class act. That leaves the other two guys with questions to answer.

One thing does concern me:

TopShelfExotics said:

Many of you know that this is a VERY new project and Alex has taken great steps to ensure everyone who invests in this project is protected. He has screened potential buyers with a proverbial battery of questions to determine who would best suit this lines potential by the purchasers intent.

Click to expand...

I don't have the energy to read through all of that thread, so could you explain what you meant by "everyone who invests in this project is protected"?

I hope that there was no effort on anyone's part to restrain trade, restrict numbers of breedings, fix prices, or any other potential violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. Even hobbyists doing interstate sales are subject to its provisions. I hope that this refers to making certain that the other investors were protected in that all would act with the best intentions for the species and the morph. Additionally, Alex would be entitled to retain a breeding interest in each animal and a percentage of sales of their progeny should the others agree to it. I have never heard of that being done in the reptile world but it would be legal.

I would like to see a pic of Dan P's snow that is current as well, it took Chris J a matter of minutes to post a pic of his and Chris I am sure has way more reptiles than Dan P so I don't see why it is so hard for Dan P to post a current pic of the male.

dragonflyreptiles said:

so I don't see why it is so hard for Dan P to post a current pic of the male.

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Its hard for him to post it because it is sooooo sickly by now that he is afraid to show the rest of us how AWSOME he is at taking care of his animals!

Jim O said:

One thing does concern me:

I don't have the energy to read through all of that thread, so could you explain what you meant by "everyone who invests in this project is protected"?

I hope that there was no effort on anyone's part to restrain trade, restrict numbers of breedings, fix prices, or any other potential violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. Even hobbyists doing interstate sales are subject to its provisions. I hope that this refers to making certain that the other investors were protected in that all would act with the best intentions for the species and the morph. Additionally, Alex would be entitled to retain a breeding interest in each animal and a percentage of sales of their progeny should the others agree to it. I have never heard of that being done in the reptile world but it would be legal.

Click to expand...

Having read the entire thread, I believe you are correct in this part of your statement. "I hope that this refers to making certain that the other investors were protected in that all would act with the best intentions for the species and the morph"
Alex didn't feel that the first Dan was the proper person to let in on this project.
Probably felt that Dan's; ethics, husbandry, and profit motive ie. greed-doesn't want to be bothered with Tangerines, wants to get in on the ground floor of other peoples projects, nothing wrong with buying the latest morphs, but, many times when greed is the motivator, it affects the care of the animals.
Reading the aformentioned thread, as well as previous threads involving Dan, and posted e-mails he's sent to other people (either in anger, or inquiring about treatment for possibly sick animals) I'd say Alex's intuition was right on the mark.

reptilebreeder said:

Having read the entire thread, I believe you are correct in this part of your statement. "I hope that this refers to making certain that the other investors were protected in that all would act with the best intentions for the species and the morph"

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I figured as much but wanted it clarified not just for myself but for anyone else who reads this thread later and has the same question.

reptilebreeder said:

Reading the aformentioned thread, as well as previous threads involving Dan, and posted e-mails he's sent to other people (either in anger, or inquiring about treatment for possibly sick animals) I'd say Alex's intuition was right on the mark.

Click to expand...

I would say no doubt about it.

Thanks for the reply.

jenn said:

Its hard for him to post it because it is sooooo sickly by now that he is afraid to show the rest of us how AWSOME he is at taking care of his animals!

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Thats what Im afraid of too!

That poor Leo, this is one reason why Alex is being so protective of the newer morph! Which from dealign with Alex over the last couple of years I know he is a great guy and cares greatly for all of his reptiles not just the new morphs.