the AMAZING (so called) 16X het

this has been bothering me for a while.

admittingly i check ron trempers site often to see what he has available.

recently (and i dont know if its still on his web site) i noticed a normal appearing leopard gecko that he advertised as beening het for 16 traits.

now come on! thats imposible. being as it looks normal all of these traits would have to be recessive (unless he het for giant...which lets go ahead and assume).

so IF this animal is het for giant (making it a giant) that leaves 15 more traits that this animal is het for (did i mention he doesnt list ANY of the traits its supposedly het for).

so lets see whats available as far as recessive genes in leopard geckos:

-blizzard
-tremper albino
-rainwater albino
-bell albino
-patternless

okay so assuming this animal is a triple het for albino and het for patternless and blizzard thats still only a 6X het. what are the other 10 traits? say we add in ray hines hypo (which Ron Tremper proudly states hes never added ANY ray hines blood into his line, "but hes bought some of mine").

so even if they did have ray hines hypo in them thats still only 7 traits. even if somehow it was het for mack snow (which it clearly is not) thats still only 8. half of the traits he claims this leopard gecko is het for.

oh and i almost forgot his recessive stripe and reverse stripe line he claims to have not to mention his claims that jungle is a recessive trait (ive bought a super-tangerine albino that was supposedly het for jungle from him).

so there we go still only 11 traits and it would have to be het for all of the following:

-all 3 strains of albino
-blizzard
-patternless
-giant
-ray hines hypo (which he says hes never introduced to his line)
-mack snow (which it looks nothing like)
-jungle (which i hardly beleive is even a recessive trait)
-stripe and reverse stripe (which ive always been skeptical about them being recessive)

and were still 5 traits shy of our goal of 16 traits.

so what are the other 5? more fake recessives? is it het for carrot head? het for carrot tail? het for tangerine? het for hyperxanthic and pastel?

yeah ron its a good thing you dont feel like you have to answer to anyone in respect to claims like this one.

the sad thing is that it sold. someone actually bought this normal leopard gecko that is supposedly het for 16 traits. and i believe the price tag was about 400 dollars. a 400 dollar non-bling. now THATS marketing!!

sorry everyone but this has been driving me crazy lately. the idea that someone would make such a claim and not even expalin what hes selling.

well than ive got 42X hets ill be selling. matter of fact all of my geckos are now 42X hets.

"go ahead pick any one..."

"what about that one"

"oh it may look like a 50 dollar gecko, but come here... a little closer.. (whispers) its het for 42 different traits"

"42? wow? which tra..."

"...and its only 400 dollars"

"42 traits and its only $400?! WHAT A STEAL!!! heres my money!"

"yup. now run along. NEXT? we got het for blue albinos het for snow white albinos and animals that carry the NEW PATTERNLESS MORPH!"

p.s. i wouldnt actually ever market something i couldnt back up. i was just making a point.

I saw that on there yesterday and wondered the same thing, seems odd to he het for 16 traits to me, here is what he has on the site:




#623 MULTI-HET JUNGLE PHASE SUPER GIANT - Male - 116 grams - $500.US
12 months old
Carries the genes for 16 different leopard gecko morphs!
Still growing!
(sold S.M.)

After a bit of searching, I found the gecko in question. He is on Tremper's giants page and is listed as a "multi-het jungle phase super giant". Tremper actually says that it carries the genes for 16 different traits - he makes no claim that it is het for 16 recessive traits - for example he says it is a super giant (GG - not het), but I am sure he is counting that as one of the 16. If the traits don't have to be recessive, the claim may be more realistic. He can include dominant, co-dominant and polygenic traits. Still, I agree that 16 is alot, especially when it is only showing giant and maybe some jungle. Even RAPTORs have... what 6-7 traits?

I definately agree that we should be cautious of claims concerning new morphs or "amazing hets" - from anyone - without data to back those claims. At this time, I am inclined to let other (more experienced than me) breeders play around with the new morphs and establish the genetics behind something new before I'll blindly accept claims concerning the genetics. Although I still want an APTOR regardless of what the deal is with the new "patternless" gene just because I like them. I also think that "multi-het" gecko could be pretty fun to work with - could be lots of very pleasant surprises in the offspring. I certainly hope so for the sake of the person that spent $500 on him!!

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Nancy

Wow, that person will be "proving" that animal out for a long time. Hope it isn't a long trip down a short road! :eek3:

has anyone emailed him???

has anyone emailed him to see if he will say just what the 16 traits are??
I as well would like to see that list. Tell him your a perspective buyer and want to know before hand so that you could decide whether or not to buy it.

nancy...it does say "multi-het".

given i forgot it was a super giant and a jungle.

if someone was selling a normal cornsnake or normal boa and claiming it was a "multi-het" and het for even 5 or 6 traits it would be treated as fraud. since its ron tremper we say "thanks for the cool aptor" and ignore his false claims.

just to make a 100% triple het you would need to cross a ghost (were talking snakes here- hypo and anery) with an albino.

for his 16X het he would have had to cross a reverse striped triple albino blazing mack snow giant to a striped patternless hypo carrotail giant pastel hyperxanthic jungle. or some combination of those traits and they would have to be homozygous for all those traits to insure that the offspring are 100% het for those traits. unfathomable.

THIS is the sort of thing that disappoints me in the hobby. im going to go play with my geckos though and that oughta cheer me up. i hope S.M. doesnt go postal when he finds out hes been had.

you lost me???

diablohogs said:

i hope S.M. doesnt go postal when he finds out hes been had.

Click to expand...

Who is S.M.????

Who is S.M.????

Click to expand...

the guy who bought the multi-het. it says... "(sold s.m.)".

Man, It sucks for the person who just payed for a 400 dollar normal. What a sucker Well Someone does need to ask him what he claims its for. Yes very unrealistic.

You know, I actually know Ron, haven't had any contact with him in a few years, but he was always honest, not popular, but honest.

Is it within the realm of possibility that what he claims IS possible? And if so, why do you have a problem with it?

No, I do NOT think that everything he has done, if he has done all he is accused of, is cool. I also don't think that he should be denigrated without some sort of proof. He DOES have a bit of a reputation and I don't think he'd put it on the line for a measly 500.00. Would you were you he?

Is it within the realm of possibility that what he claims IS possible? And if so, why do you have a problem with it?

Click to expand...

no. not even ALMOST. if its the real thing than more power to the guy. ill be the first to congradulate him. i am not some jealous person or something. i just dont support lying to the public to market less desirable geckos.

the aptor and the raptor look great. i have the issue of REPTILES magazine with his article about the raptor (plus i look at his available geckos on his website all the time) and compared to alot of albinos on the market he has some top quality geckos BUT that doesnt give him the right to sell animals with make believe traits floating around in them.

Wes, if youre his friend tell him to come on here and expalin what 16 morphs this animal is carrying. if im wrong i will apoligize.

Man, It sucks for the person who just payed for a 400 dollar normal

Click to expand...

i was corrected...it was 500.

If I am correct, Dan of Manhatan Herps picked one of these multi hets up from a local guy at a show. Maybe he can help you out some.

My thoughts

Although he says multi hets I think the word trait might be more correct, I think the Super Giant trait is included and I think it is possible het for aptor, raptot, and or snow albino. If this one carried the trait for raptors and alone like already stated RT breaks that down into several traits...
Personally I thinkt hat animals size alone makes it worth that asking price or atleats $300...
Xavier

I am a genetics idiot and I don't mind admitting it lol

I just thouht it sounded odd, maybe if you go back to the parents, grandparents and great grand parents etc. and count every gene they carried it would add up to the "Carries the genes for 16 different leopard gecko morphs".

But like I said, I am a genetics idiot so I don't know if that would be a true way to get how many and het for what from the leo.

specifically "multi-het" and "carries the genes for 16 different leopard gecko morphs!" are where i have a problem with it.

to be a multi het it would have to be hetrozygous for several different single locus morphs.

he did not say "carries the blood from parents that have several different traits." and even then id have a small problem with not listing them off.

Here's a thought, Chad - why don't you write him a polite email and ask him your question.

He's always answered my emails, when I had questions.

I'm a little uncomfortable warming up the tar and plucking the chickens before we ask the "guilty one" to explain himself . . . .

MatthewK said:

If I am correct, Dan of Manhatan Herps picked one of these multi hets up from a local guy at a show. Maybe he can help you out some.

Click to expand...

i honestly dont belive it's actually a multi-het, but thats what he implied, its laying eggs with my male carrothead-carrot tail tangerine jungle giant albino now, john(the guy i got her from) says her father was a CHCTTJGA, and she has lineage from carrot tails, tangerines, patternless' etc..i dont honestly believe it all, bur we'll see

chad makes some very good points, but it is possible that it can carry many traits, recessive, or not

he is away...

he is away and is not going to be returning any email until june tenth and also not shipping anything until then, so these questions will have to linger for three weeks.