Starting a herp shop in Tampa Bay need help

Thanks for reading this,

First off my name is Jeremy I moved to this area (Pinellas County) A few years ago. I have been privatley breeding Chameleons for 15+ years and am very dissapointed with the lack of Herp shops in the area (at least decent ones other then Cage It...... sorry not trying to start a flame war)

My wife and I are very interested in opening a shop in the very very near future...... looking for a good retail space now.

What I am looking for is alot but it is for the betterment of the herp society.

Easy stuff first I am looking for any comments suggestion pitfalls to look for etc..... as this will be my first self owned business.

My dream and plan is to open a shop wich offers more then a bunch of lizards in ten gallon tanks with wax marker names and prices but rather a place that new and expert herpers can come and see animals in there proper invironments sorta zoo meets pet store. My father will be helping build cages, I have my wifes company supply glass in any size I need and I build my own screen cages.

However my start up capital is very small so I need anyone local who may be willing to help by donating some time to help build and remodel.

I am also looking for anyone who may be willing to send or bring animals in on a consinment basis for sale. Also need breeders who will have stock available. I am looking to start with smaller lizards as again I want natural and wont have room for large adult monitors, snakes...etc.... Looking for geckos, chameleons, beardies, uros, or others that will not take up huge amounts of space. All animals will be given the utmost care as this are is in desperate need of a shop that is visible to the general public and help bring a good name to the industry.

I will also note I am not asking for donations of cash but they wouldnt be refused either...... though seriously I dont expect people to just give someone they dont know money..... I know I wouldn't.

Any other help that someone may think of and be willing to offer would also be appreciated.


Thanks in advance for any help.

Sincerly,

Jeremy and KrysAnn

[email protected]
www.thedotat.com

miss typed meaning of Cage It pets

The way my post reads it seems as though I am indorsing Cage It Pets

This is ABSOLUTLEY NOT what I meant.

I am not going to go into what I think of said shop however I will state I DO NOT think said shop has the best interests of the animals in mind and would not suggest anyone buying anything there.

one last time I do not endorse Cage It Pets by any stretch of the imagination (this may upset some local people that may do business there if so I appologize this is just my personal oppinion of there shop

Thanks

Jeremy and KrysAnn

[email protected]
www.thedotat.com

Easy stuff first I am looking for any comments suggestion pitfalls to look for etc..... as this will be my first self owned business.

Click to expand...

I respect your desire to bring such an environment to the Tampa Bay area. However, if you are going to launch it as a business, you need to approach it as a business. You should develop a full business plan, including financial projections for a minimum of 3 years. Realize that the highest likelihood will be to run in the red for AT LEAST the first 6 months. Taking animals on consignment (higher cost of product sold) will only increase your mark up and make you less competitive.

Keep in mind also that while you don't feel you have any QUALITY competition in the area, that those other stores will certainly give you a run for your money. Examine their animals and their pricing: can you compete with that? Will you be able to afford enough employees that your added services (I'm guessing primarily education and a stronger health guarantee) can be delivered properly? While many people who are truly passionate about herps will appreciate your efforts, they too must carefully evaluate where they spend their hard earned money, so you'll be competing with internet sales and herp shows. Other retail customers are most likely looking for price. While they wouldn't knowingly buy a substandard or unhealthy animal from one of your competitors, they are most likely not educated enough to be able to differentiate between a great animal and one that is only marginal.

What you will probably succeed at initially is getting many people in the door to "oooh" and "aaaah" at your displays.....but that won't pay the bills. You might consider investing the effort to speak to Robyn at Pro Exotics in Denver.....outstanding company, the most marvelous retail store I'd ever seen.......and they were forced to close it because people just refused to buy from them when they could get the same animal at some filthy place 20 minutes away.

While it may sound like I'm doing nothing but pi$$ing in your cornflakes, that's really not my intention. I simply hope that you will go into this with both eyes fully open and understand the odds.

However my start up capital is very small

Click to expand...

Please, please, please take a close look at that situation. Lack of sufficient capital makes 99% of businesses fail, and you certainly don't want to invest money into a venture then have to lock the doors in 60 days.

Good luck!

However my start up capital is very small

Click to expand...

Please, please, please take a close look at that situation. Lack of sufficient capital makes 99% of businesses fail, and you certainly don't want to invest money into a venture then have to lock the doors in 60 days.

Click to expand...

I would second this. I always say it takes three things to start up a business. Time, Money, and Attitude. If your lacking in one you'll have to make it up with the others. I started my first business with less than $2,000. Severly underfunded. So it is possible, but you sacrafice other things to make it work. If your willing to do 12 - 16 hours a day / 7 days a week you can survive and build it up.

Another thing to look at is the extra stress it brings to the household. When you start up your own business everyone in the household is a part whether they want it that way or not (just unavoidable). Lack of start up capital makes this double.

I know my lack of initial capital will be a hurdle however I do have plenty of residule income available so I dont expect to make money quickly.

As far as the consignment issue, I dont intend on marking anything up to make profit only to get good quality herps in the shop for exposure of the shop and to possible help the home breeder who may need a outlet to sell through.

Localy there is knowbody selling anything other then common chain pet store reptiles tokay/day gekos iguanas you know the normal fair.

The shop I mentioned in my previous post is more then bad everything in there shop is over priced and usually sick.
The last time I was in there they had blown a circut or some such thing and had one whole side of the store with no electricity for lamps heaters etc. It was also overun with german roaches wich were in all there cages and all over all there stock.

This being my only real competition other then generic retail shops which I should also state are all way over priced. I went in one the other day and they wanted 250 for a 4 inch veiled.

I do have a business plan and will be opening help or not (and I do appreciate your comments.... makes me rethink and solidify my plans) I just thought I would put it on the table and see what happens. The more the help the better the shop. I am aming at something to draw both the general public and the serious herper. To teach and learn, spread the joys and help the field. I am by no means looking to get rich. I guess a little about me would be appropriate here: I have a disbility which keeps me from working a normal for someone else type job (Meniere's it is a inner ear Disease). I have to do things where if I need to I can stop and sit for a few untill the vertigo passes. This venture is more out of frustration with pet shops and lack of quality animals locally and wanting to expand my own personal hobby.

Another point on pricing is I build screen and aluminum cages for Chams. All the "competitors" cages start at 40-50+ and go up well over a hundred. These cages made exactly the same with all the same or better materials as I use true outdoor tiles for the bottom cost about 10 for a small and the price diffrence to the largest is only about 2 or 3 dollars and maybe a total of 30 seconds to a minute more build time to insert the extra spline so why do there prices more then double? the largest cage I have ever sold was larger then there and I only charged 60 bucks for it and still tripled my investment. Most pet stores and larger operation have alot more overhead in employees and the such so they charge more.

I will be running this myself full time with my wifes help and help from other family and friends. I also plan on buying from quality breeders not wholesalers I have found the price diffrence is little to none.

I understand I wont open the doors and all will be fine but I have done my market research and have come to the conclusion that retailers at least around here charge way to much because they can. Yes my prices will be slightley higher then online but without the shipping charges because I can buy ten and split the shipping cost across the ten. Plus there is something to be said for walking in and seeing what you are buying and knowing there is someone standing behind it.

Again I will also state that some of this venture is towards the goal of education and amusment (lacking a better term) I will have real enclosures, Animals you wont see at the local pet store, you can go anywhere and see a rose tarantula or tokay gecko but I have yet to see a cobalt blue tarantula or a hypo anything gecko. Sure they sell a million baby igys a year and most end up dead or unwanted.

Sorry I have rambeld on so

I realy do appreciate the comments please keep them coming just dont misunderstand my capital statement. The Money I have will open the shop I would just rather have some help from inside the herp world and make it as good as possible so I can give back to the community something wonderful.


Thanks again

Jeremy

PS I know my spelling and grammer suck belive it or not I have a degree in psychology. I'm just lost without a spell check or proff reader.

I agree with Terese on a few things

1. skip the consignment, its nothing but a headache. It seems attractive at first because you have no initial outlay of cash to obtain stock, but generally in a consignment system, after the sale, you usually pay the consignee more that you would have if you would have bought the animal outright. If not, no one will want to consign with you, and if you do you make less per animal.

2. If you break even before a year or two is up I would be surprised let alone 6 months.

3. You need to have enough working capital. that was my problem, and I have been struggling with it since day one.

4. Natural setups are nice (thats what I use in most cases) but they are very high maintenance and time consuming. Consider that if you have nice setups where the animals can peoperly hide away, that is what they will do. I can gaurantee you will not sell the animal if the customer can't see it. I have CBB fire skinks that I have had for over a year and nobody wants them because they only come out when I feed them. The problem is that everybody who comes in wants to see them so you have to take the time to show them, they oooh and ahh and then don't buy them. The same goes for every other animal that hides a lot. What I am trying to say about this is that if you are busy with people (which you want) you will have little time to take care of the animals) People ask me why I don't open earlier and I tell them that it takes me from 7 to 11 just to clean the cages every day (minus the hour so I spend on here)

5. It sounds to me like there are a lot of reptile shops in Tampa already (based on the threads on this forum) and while none of them may be up to your standards they are still established and they are your competition. I once thought that offering enough quality CBB animals would be enough to sway public opinion and justify the higher prices. I have come to the conclusion that 80% of the general reptile buying public doesn't care about that. All they care about is price. You can talk to them untill you are blue in the face about the bennefits of CBB over WC they will take your advice and still go to filthy place 20 minutes away and save 10 bucks. On top of it all they will come to you for advice when the animal they bought somewhere else is not doing so well. Then after you tell them that they need a UVB light and a heat light for their bearded dragon (which the other place neglected to tell them when they sold them their 10 gallon starter kit ) they will go online to buy the stuff you recomend. Of the 20% who do care, 10% know about interenet shopping and site like this and KS and will buy their animals and supplies online. A small percentage will actually appreciate the time and effort you spend to provide them with quality animals and they will support you no matter what. Of course you will fell the desire to reward these loyal customers with discounts thus further cutting in on your profits.

6. (mine) You mention the help you have starting up but what kind of help will you have running it. I do 90% of my work myself. I have one employee who cleans my rats and mice three times a week and feeds the snakes once a week. She works mainly on a barter system because she has a zoo at her house and needs the stuff. If your wife has a good job and you don't really need the shop as a means of support then its not a big problem (I know a couple who has done that) but if it weren't for his job there is no way they would make it. If I were not single with no kids (and no other life) I would not be making it either.

7. (mine) Although you maybe didn't intend to you may have already started off on the wrong foot by bad mouthing your competitors. You didn't say much specific but essentially you told everyone here that all the herp shops in Tampa are crap. I am sure many of them know about this site and the will read this. I am sure that no one likes to have a competitor open up in their back yard but most people take it in stride. When they find out that you are opening a shop because you think theirs sucks they will look at you in a different light. There are several shops in my area that know a lot more about SW fish than I do. I do not hesitate to recomend them if I can't help a customer with their needs. Most of them send their reptile customers my way when they can't help. The door swings both ways and we get along very well. There is one shop (that closed down after 6 months) that no one recomended because when he opened he started bad mouthing the rest of us saying we didn't know anything and that our products were crap. The thing is, the guy had a decent store, tons of knowledge, and nice stock. The point is we lost none of our regulars and we picked up a few new customers because he advertised like crazy, brought many new people to the hobby and when they found out what a jerk he was they came to us. They found out about us because he wouldn't hesitate to tell them how bad we all were and being curious they checked us out, found out he was full of crap and stayed with us.

I am in no way saying that you would run you store that way, just that your initial inquiry gave me a little reason for concern. You would have been much better off leaving that out of your post. Even though they are your competitors, you don't want to give them any more publicity and you don't want to run the risk of really ticking them off.

One last thing and I mean this sincerely. What background do you have in running a business? I have seen more than a few very knowledgable people fail because although they new the product better than most they had absolutly no idea what it took to run a business. The care and sale of animals is only one part of it and if you have to hire someone else to do the business side that is another expense you have to figure on.

I wish you luck and I am not trying to deter you in any way. I always tend to ere on the side of caution so many of my diatribes sound gloom and doom. I just want people to know of the potential downside. Most of them are excited enough and are aware of the potential upside and it often clouds their judgement.


Best of luck to you.
Steve Schindler

Ok quick reply to Steve first the only shop I would ever say anything negative about would be Cage It but I truley dont know of anyone who thinks any different. Other then that there is no real competition as far as retail. The are I live in is huge between pinellas county and tampa wich isnt that large an area land wise there are some 4 million plus permanent residents this number doubles during winter in all this area I know of only two retail shops Tampa Snake Pit which closed and went online only. Have only heard good things about them and actually recieved an email from him. and another small shop that is kinda well off the beaten path.

Knowledge of business wise My wife has a masters of business degree and herself and her previous husband (who still runs it) started a print shop..... extremley hard business to get into in this area.

Help wise as I stated it will be myself full time plus my step daughter after school my wife and brother on weekends and several friends rotating through. I shouldnt have a need for employees.

Also I guess I should state for alls knowledge I am not looking at getting some huge store. Just a small to medium place to start. I have found several places with around 1000-1200 sf on desirable street location for fairly cheap.

And again I figure if that other shop can keep running. I can.

and the big statment again is I am not looking to make my fortune if I can make enough to pay the shops bills I am happy if I pocket a few dollars bonus for me.

I cant work anylonger in a traditional job and I hate sitting at home. Besides I hate at 30 getting an SSA check I dont think I deserve it as I havent paid nearly as much in as I have drawn out in the past 2 years. This way I am being productive and paying back into the system.


Thanks

Jeremy

I cant say it enough...... Thanks for everyones help and input I know with my initial post I didnt explaine everything going into this but I just figured less would be better...... guess not

Please keep the comments comming I really appreciate them.


Jeremy

I think steve brings up a point. Using the threads on this site as my only base of knowledge for the area it seems there is some dishonesty in a local herper (this will be one of those "experts" that comes in to just hang around and talk shop with you; aka casing the joint) in the area who is somehow tied into the local shops as well. You should invest in a security system that is above normal for your type of operation. Coming out the gate with guns blazin' like you did may upset those of less than ethical persuasion.

Profitability. There seems to be a misconception that being profitable is evil. Profitability covers things like repairs on buildings, UPS's 900lb gorillas using your boxes to play basketball (which requires rounding the corners as much as possible), vet bills, employee costs, and rainy days. You can say that UPS will reimburse you for the loss, but that is weeks down the road and you need the cash flow to be there to make the customer happy today (trust me they won't wait ). Profitability also allows you to grow (buying items in bulk to cut costs) and gives you leverage with vendors.

Help wise as I stated it will be myself full time plus my step daughter after school my wife and brother on weekends and several friends rotating through. I shouldnt have a need for employees.

Click to expand...

I don't know your friends personally so this is not an attack, but I would have a Plan B for this issue just in case. Amazing how busy with other stuff everyone can be when there's free work involved Remember the buck stops at the boss, whether that's the dollar-type buck or final responsibility to get EVERYTHING done.

I know this is going to sound really negative, but I can't help that.

If you build a pet shop expecting knowledgeable buyers whom will be able to tell 'quality' and pay more accordingly, you will likely fail. I have never run a retail shop myself, but am basing my opinion on observations made at herp shows and even discussion via phone and email orders.

People generally buy based on price, and little else. The problem with live animal sales is that quality can be very difficult to determine for a novice buyer. Many times, they are seeing an animal for the very first time and have no idea what a healthy one looks like. Should they have a high-ridged back? Should the tail be thin or fat? Should the be laying on the floor of the cage or sitting on a perch? Should they be placid or alert and active?

I have seen people walking down the aisles at shows with their nearly half dead newly purchased animals, bragging about how cheaply they got it. I have heard of vendors selling their cheap leopard geckos to unsuspecting buyers claiming that theirs with the thin tails are healthier than those other more expensive ones with the overweight fat tails. A fast talking salesman can sell a dead animal to someone if the price is cheap enough.

If you think people will come into your store, and recognize the time, care, and expense you put into your animals and pay you a premium for it, you are sadly mistaken. If they can get another one down the street that is kept on a strictly maintenance diet and cleaned only monthly, but $5 cheaper, they will buy the cheaper one 99 times out of 100.

For every 10 people that will walk away from your store because your prices are too high, you may get one that will appreciate your animals and buy from you. Unless you are expecting to get a lot of people coming in the door that you can make a successful business off of that percentage of sales to walkaways, you are in for a rude awakening.

The ONLY way you could likely survive in what you are planning is if you are offering something no one else has. If you are offering the same thing that everyone else if selling, you will get beat to death over prices. You do not have any reputation to help you, because you are a new startup. Your competition will have been around a lot longer, and like it or not, people are creatures of habit. So unless you are offering their customers a darned good reason to come to your shop and buy something, they probably won't. Yeah they may come by to look at the pretty displays and see the beautiful lizards, and maybe spend hours of your time asking you about how to care for the animals they bought elsewhere, but unless you are planning to charge an admission or consultation fee, you will starve.

Retail sales are tough. Starting out with low capital, hoping for donations and asking for help is a financial disaster in the making for you. You need foot traffic, which means you need to have a shop in an area where people are. That sort of real estate is not going to be cheap, because EVERYONE wants that for their business. Yeah you can get a cheap warehouse somewhere on the wrong side of the tracks, but make sure you take a deck of cards to work with you so you have something to do with your time while the shop is open.

As several people have pointed out, you need to make up a detailed business plan. Study successful retail shops and take note of what it is that makes them successful. What will it take for you to duplicate that? What will your monthly expenses be? What is a realistic figure for your monthly income? What do you do if the expenses are greater than the income for 1 year? In the case of a pet shop, the care of the animals will likely be the first place you try to cut expenses. Then what do you have?

As I said, I hate to rain on your parade, but there are warning flags all over the field in your first message opening this thread.

Going to toss out my experience w/ petshops.

I worked for a 'mom and pop' petstore that opened almost two years ago. I quit when I had my baby, or I would still be working there.

The owners are there every day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. They get there by 10 at the lastest each day, usually around 9, and don't leave until 10 or later each night. The shop hours are 11-8 Monday-Saturday. When you're busy, and have customers in all the time, there is no sitting down, even if you're sick, or in my case, pregnant.

Trying to deal with customers, stock shelves, place orders, clean cages, feed animals, water animals, clean more cages, deal with more customers, you're exhausted. Customers don't understand, I'm pregnant, I need to sit down for a minute, or in your case, I'm dizzy, I need to sit down for a minute. They understand they want something, and they want it then.

The petshop I worked at had reptiles, small animals, fish, and birds, as well as supplies for all of those plus dogs and cats. The owners don't take home any pay--yet. The people that work there are paid minimum wage, and work hard. I worked because I was bored, and love animals, but the other people that work there, work because they need the money. It's HARD to find people that already know anything about reptiles/fish/birds and such, and the turnover rate at such jobs is fairly high, since they're always looking for jobs that pay better.

As for opening a reptiles only shop, not THAT many people like reptiles in comparison to fish/birds/small animals/dogs/cats. They just don't. You'll have a lot of 'tourists' as we called people just looking. Plus, you have the internet as a competitor, and most people that know anything about reptiles, know they can order whatever they want, usually for cheaper.

As for supplies, you will have a very small markup you can work with on those, in order to compete with places like Petsmart and Petco. And yes, you have to compete with them, or people will come to you, find out what they need to know, and then go buy from someplace cheaper. Plus, you will have to pay more for supplies than those places do. The more you order, the more of a price break you get. One example of this is, Petsmart SOLD dog food for less than what we PAID for it, because they have warehouse storage available. I'm sure this happened in much more than just dogfood, but I know for a fact that one is true.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but just trying to help you see some of the possible pitfalls you may not have thought of. I personally would love to see a herp only shop around here...but I too would be a 'tourist' most of the time, as I don't need many supplies for the reptiles I have, and a lot of what I need, I order online, since it is cheaper....

Good luck in whatever you decide!!

There have definitely been some good points raised here.

Jeremy, your idea is good and noble, but ultimately is going to fail. I hate to be harsh, but the sad fact of the matter is it's true. Here are reasons why I think you will have problems...

Problem #1: You have a small amount of capital. While many businesses start out low on funds, if you have nothing to fall back on, you're screwed. There is ALOT of expense you'll have to take care of immediately that unfortunately, the bare minimum doesn't always cover. Most businesses that start out with basically no money end up the same way.

Problem #2: You are not exactly in an area that is lacking in herp shops. You've got three that I can name right off the top of my head in Tampa, and another 3 or 4 within an hour's drive of Tampa. And since these stores are specialty herp outlets, chances are good they will have the things that won't be seen in the average all purpose pet shop. What is going to make someone go to your store as opposed to going to say, Amazon Reptiles(just an example)? Pretty cages aren't enough.

Problem#3: Time. Are you REALLY willing to dedicate the kind of time required work this place pretty much on your own?

Problem#4: Staff. Family and friends are a great help in the beginning. Sure they are there for you at the immediate start, but what are you going to do on that busy Saturday afternoon when your buddies found something better to do and your kid's got a baseball game? That is why you need to have a PAID STAFF, even if it's only one person. If you're brother forgets to mist the chameleons one day and they all drop dead, what can you do? Fire him? Dock the pay he's not getting? That's why you need a PAID staff that knows if they do something wrong, they have to make up for it in some way. Also, you will have to take time to properly train your staff. Most people taking pet store jobs aren't usually the most knowledgeable, some are VERY knowledgeable, but most have ALOT to learn because it is not a high-pay field and those that DO have the knowledge are typically out looking for better things. You will need to take time to properly train them on their duties. I don't know your family or your friends, but the most independable people are family and friends.

Problem #5: What exactly will you get that people haven't seen before? Most more experienced/jaded herpers like myself that you say you want to attract have seen ALOT of different species, and in many cases have KEPT alot of the less common stuff. Keeping somewhat rarer stuff in stock isn't going to make me choose you over another, more convenient/competitive place. Most retail shops don't carry Red-tail Green Ratsnakes, for instance. Just because you get some in is that going to make me run to your shop instead because you have them? They are not a very common retail animal, but I'm not going to beat down your door to buy them from you. Also, most of us "in the know" so to speak, already know sources for some of the rarer animals and we also know that we can hit a site like Fauna or kingsnake to get good prices on that stuff.

The people new to the hobby who have no clue what a Red-tail Green Ratsnake is may come in and think it's cool to see something they've never seen before, but if they've never even heard of one, how are they to know it's rare?

Problem #6: This kind of leads into the last problem, but you mentioned you were only going to buy from breeders as opposed to wholesalers/importers. Okay, if that is the case, how exactly are you going to get in some of that rarer stuff that people don't see very often? Red-tail Green Ratsnakes fit this problem as well as there are VERY few people breeding them in captivity. The majority of what you are going to find of the rarer and less commonly seen species are going to be WC. So again, if you are going to deal only with breeders, how exactly are you going to get that harder to find stuff, AND at a price reasonable enough for you to purchase then resell them?

Also, it is common practice that in pet stores the seller will tell people that the animals come from their "breeders." Now, for the most part, we know these "breeders" are wholesalers like Strictly, Burgundy, and whoever. Those that have been around a while take the "it came from one of my breeders" line with a grain of salt when they hear it in a pet store, regardless of whether it's true or not. So in my opinion, buying only from breeders will not put you at a better advantage or give you more credibility when you get going.

Now, I wish you the best and I hope you find a way to make it work, but you have got some MAJOR road blocks in front of you and I believe you'll need to rehash and rethink alot of your ideas to get your plans realised.

Keep your shorts on people, I got permission from Rich to post this....

Jeremy.... As I told you in our emails, I will give you all the help you need, if you really want it (educational, not physical.... lol).... but....

I bought Tampa Snake Pit about 5 years ago, with the same aspirations you have.... I bought the place for "a song and a dance", but, I STILL had to put about $20K into the place just to set it up, which included....

RENT.... (First, last, and a month's security)....

License Fees....

Electric Deposit....

Phone Deposit....

Insurance Fees....

Store Signs....

Advertising Fees....

New Computer....

Alarm System....

ADT Fees....

Cash Register....

In-Store Construction Costs....

In-Store Supplies, ie.... Paper and Plastic Bags; Deli Cups; Garbage Cans for Crickets; Mice, Rat and Rabbit Holding Racks; etc....

Exhaust Fans....

Proper Lighting....

Tanks; Stands; Heat Lamps for Each Tank; Decorations for each Tank or enclosure; etc....

Video Camera System....

And this is just a PARTIAL list of things I can think of right off-hand!

Jeremy.... You will spend 10-12 hours a day, 7 days a week, working your butt off for AT LEAST one year!.... You CAN'T take ANY time off because you CAN'T trust a minimum-wage employee to look after your interests.... they'll rip you off blind!.... (take it from experience).... when you finally train your help to do things as you want them to, they will then quit and move on, which means you'll have to start all over again training someone else....

All this still doesn't include BURGLARY!!.... I got hit 4 times in 5 years to the tune of about $100K retail value (theft of animals, and destruction of property).... It's NOT fun!

You had also better get INCORPORATED!!.... Unless, of course, you don't mind being held PERSONALLY responsible for anything going wrong??

I know every pet shop, herp shop, and specialty pet shop in this area.... there is not ONE OF THEM who isn't struggling to keep their doors open.... why do you think I got rid of my store??.... In the last 3 months since I've gotten rid of that place, I've made more money (that I can actually keep) then the store ever did (as far as animal sales go).... For the first 4-1/2 years in the store, I averaged $625 PER DAY, and about $225K PER YEAR (gross) in my store, and it STILL WASN'T ENOUGH to keep me in the black....

Every person that has posted so far, is telling you the truth!.... Believe me, I have NO PROBLEM with another herp store in Tampa, but, it's going to end up being a lesson in futility for you....

If you still decide you want to try your venture, just let me know, and I'll answer any questions you may have....

Neil Gubitz
Tampa Snake Pit

Jeremy,

If you are still interested in starting up a retail shop after all of this send me an email at [email protected]. I have an excellent outline for writing a business plan that I will gladly scan in and email to you. I thought about opening a retail store myself but after doing all the work for the business plan and seeing how much money I would need just to start I decided to stick to breeding and selling out of my home. The idea of being almost half a million in debt before I even opened the doors scared me to death. You have my support and if it happens let me know and I'll sell you some animals but please be sure to do a lot of thinking before you do anything irrevokable.

Heather

ok enough with the negatives already...... just kidding..........

Somehow I dont think I am explaining myself right.

My focus really and truly isnt to make money as odd as that sounds. It is to further my hobby and educate the public as best I can....... I am banking on as many "tourist" shoppers as I can get. If I can educate even one person a week it is worth it and better yet if one iggy or other reptile isnt sold to mom and dad for there 10 year old who will ultimatley not be able to take care of it. Then I have accomplished what I want. I said Zoo/petshop and I really mean Zoo first. I will sell what I can dont take me wrong and the prices will be good. I love herps and I love talking to the public.

My mission isnt to build a herp impire but to bring the public something they dont see every day.

As far as time investment thats all I have is time. I am only 30 and have the rest of my life or at least until my Meniere's stops me but I probably wont go deaf for another 15-20 years.

I wont be the same shop that needs to sell something to everyone who walks in the door. I know now that the "starting capital" statment was not the right phrasing. I was just trying to state without explaining why I wanted help..... no I dont have millions of dollars but I have enough. My asking for help was more for the betterment of the hobby in general.

A good example I just got home from going to a retailer I sell my Jacksons to I hadnt talked to him in about a month he had sold everything he had from me and gotten a Jacksons from a wholesaler...... dehydrated, skinny, and anti-social he sells my fast this guy he has had for two weeks and hasnt sold him. So I talked to him and explained the diffrence between wholesalers herps and mine (I am the only regular reptile breeder he deals with) and there is no doubt he wont buy another cham from the wholesaler....... not all herps are as fragile as chams and some from wholesalers workout just fine but it is explaining to him when I first talked to him back a year ago that I got the chams he had out of the ten gal glass tank and into a cage. No maybe even the serious herper wont be a every time customer but if I constantly have rotating unusual stock they will come buy to see what I have and maybe buy something. But again I want to teach and show the public. explain that in six months that little iggy is going to be 10 times its size and wont fit in a ten gallon tank and probably wont want to be handled much and in a year it wont fit in any tank under 300-400 retail or something huge and custom built. Then suggest alternative for them to consider wether from me or someone else. Sell them a bearded or even a frilled. what kid wouldnt go ape-sh*^ over a frilled dragon. small handleable and none of his friends will have one.

This isnt about a store its about a very small Zoo that actualy sells what you look at.

And on that note I will say the thing I know you all will laugh at but I have faith in humanity..... I plan on havine a box/bucket/can/jar.... whatever for donation...... did I help....did you learn something.....did you see something youve never seen before..... that kind of idea..... yes I know its far fetched and I dont think it will pay the bills.

This place may well be all a fantasy but it is a fantasy I WILL make happen. A place without someone talking you into buying something. A place you can just look around and ask question and get friendly informative answers..... a place with animals that are happy and healthy and a place for herpers to go and just "chill and hang out" and if anyone wants to buy something they can.

A good friend of mine back before computer games took over opened a gaming shop in a small town. everyone say he would never survive but he is still in business because it wasnt about selling it was about the hobby. he had tables set up and games going all the time..... no money being made..... he even has games there to use free of charge. He sells new and used games also but doesnt make much once you own it there isnt any care and feeding involved. However he is still there has he ever made any money probably not. Has he made alot of friends and help further a hobby yes.

I moved to florida several years ago from New Hampshire and let me tell you what a diffrence nobody smiles nobody has time to help nobody wants to help they just want your money and you to leave. I refuse to understand that and I refuse to be that.

If I can bring a smile to someones face or find a kid a hobby and a place to come and hang out and talk maybe it will help. If I can help the small breeder sell something then I'm happy.

so all in all lets not think of it some much as a business. As just a place in florida that happens to sell reptiles but is a cool place to come and visit.


Thanks again for all the input,

Jeremy and Krysann

sitting in my living room in 90 degree heat without A/C because it makes the lazards happy

Jeremy.... My apologies.... NOW that I realize what you want to do.... you can count on me for all the help you need.... I, too, worked on that concept, of course for me, it WAS about making a living along with the education.... I HAD the TAMPA ZOO!.... I got all the stuff that no other pet shop carried.... Albino Boas, Meller's Chams, Panther Chams, Super Tiger and Tiger Retics, every Ornate Uro I could get my hands on, Skunks, Jurassic Milks, Albino Red-Eared Sliders, Caiman Lizards, Chondros and Emmys, Gators and Caimen, Snow Dragons, NG and Aussie Frilleds.... etc, etc, etc....
I KNOW what you're talking about.... I got a LOT of "tourists" with a LOT of questions.... I was happy to answer them ALL.... of course, I STILL love the kid who was looking at a small map of the world I put on each enclosure, with a heading that read.... "This animal originated here", with an arrow to the Country of Origin, who pointed to AUSTRALIA and asked me if that was PINELLAS COUNTY!!.... I laughed louder than ever!

Call me later and we'll talk....

....Neil

small zoo or small store it will still have the basically the same over head.

There are all kinds of people out there. Some offer help and mean it, some offer until you need it and then have something else to do. Before you go listening to anyone, especially certian individuals in Fla. whose name I won't mention but whose initials are neil gubitz, take time to do a search on them/him, and pay particular attention to the terry lilley thread, it shows neil's true colors through and through.

I had a shop years ago that was much like you describe wanting yours to be. I don't have it any longer. Good luck to you in your venture. And again, while a belief in the goodness of mankind in general is really nice it isn't anything you can count on, more of an unexpected bonus when it happens than a regular occurance.

Wes Pollock

Ritchie makes a very valid point.

Even if you don't need to make much money, how much can you afford to lose?

How long can you be upside down on your cash flow?

Unlike Wes, I would utilize any and all information you can get from anyone who has previously owned (or even currently owns, but I doubt your competition is going to offer much assistance) a retail reptile store, be it Wes, Neil Gubitz, or Robyn Markland. If they're offering free information and advice, soak up as much as you can.

Wes, regardless of your opinion of Neil, you have to admit he ran The Snake Pit for a long time, and he ran it successfully. No harm in Jeremy bending his ear about that.

I'm still on the skeptical side, Jeremy, and I really hope you listen to all the devil's advocates that have popped up here. (Quite a few people on that list!) Keep us posted on your progress, and know that we'll be rooting for you!

It's true he did run it for quite a while. However, while he may be a well of information, he is a proven liar and not trustworthy. I would be very leary of trusting anyone who has been proven out as neil has.

If my choice is getting advice from a knowledgable known liar or going it on my own, I would go it on my own. And, there are plenty of people who are known for being honest that would be more than willing to help out. Why take third class if first is available? That was my point.

Of course if a lesson in lying, misrepresenting snakes, and seeding distrust is what needs to be learned to run a business, well, then, neil is definately your man.

Wes Pollock