Guy Sells PEople Venomoids That Are Actually Hot

Hey, My name Is Espedito C. Fink,

I recentley Traded A guy Caseynd on here Real Name Kevin Smith8 baby puff adders for a Supposed Canebrake Venomoid i told him long before we made the trade i wanted the paperwork witht he snake or the deal was notta..  he made exuses now starting with...

1: Oops My fault it slipped my mind (Being The Trusting person i am i still sent the snakes after i told him a million times befroe he sent it including the same day before he sent it i wanted the paperwork.
2:Then he claims oh  i have to get it from my friend, he calls his freind supposedley a day later and it was being sent out the next day. Guess What a week goes by i email him and oh he should have sent it ill contact him for yah..
3:Oh heres his email you contact him.
by the way did i mention he sent me a hot snake as a venomoid. hehe thats the best part of it just warning people so someone dont die the thing to this story is he cant get papoerwork becayse its not a venomoid.

Here is A Copy of a couple email resononses from him making exuses and then telling me to get the paperwork myself. and also look at the other ad he has on here i respondered to warning people about him.

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Email 1:
Well your upset about it, I told him several times to send it, I can't fill
it out because I didn't do the surgery.  Email him, ask him for the
paperwork and I am sure he will send it to you.
Kevin
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Which i have emailed him and got no response.
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Here is a message i posted right on this bored and it is still here with his response.
shadiguy1



Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: July 2002
 Posted: Oct. 08 2002,09<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4    

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hey kevin im still waitin on the paperwork on that canebrakes surgery whats it been 2 weeks now.. got the snake after we did are trade and ive gotten nothing still till this day. u keep saying u have to call who did the surgery to get the paperwork . its been 2 weeks must be real long distance huh. how bout u just either

A: We trade back give me my snakes back and ill give yours.
B: U give me another snake you actually have paperwork for the surgery its been 2 weeks at least maybe more and everytime i email u i get yah the guy said hes mailing it tomorow um let me give you some info on the postal system i can mail something to another country in less time than what it took in this transaction and i still have gotten nothing. sounds fishy 2 me i emailed yah a couple times recently and got no response if i dont have by this friday. Eithe the paperwork or my snakes back or just send me the cash value and not wholesale value either. then i will also post on the BOI about it im hoping you'll make good on this transaction now that i made it a little mroe public you did great on shipping it but i told you from the get go i wanted the paperwork to do the deal or forget it and i saved all your emails claiming you were going to send it out with the snake and i told you the night before u shipped as well so no saying oops i forgot then it turns to someone else has it you ask me and it sounds funny. lets see how your gonna handle this..

thanks,

Tito  
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Here is his response to That email:



Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: Feb. 2002
 Posted: Oct. 10 2002,01:11    

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You know what, I explained to you that I wasn't going to fill out the paperwork because I didn't perform the surgery.  I just gave you his email and told you to contact him, that would probably get faster results. But you don't want to, so I am doing my best to get your paperwork. Is the snake hot? or is it fixed? You have had it for awhile now, so you know that it is fixed. I will get your paperwork, or you can email him and get it.  I talked to him on several occasions and told him to send it. I was under the impression that it was sent. I told you tonight that YOU WILL GET THE PAPERWORK.  You got a quality animal for animals that won't eat, won't even look at food.  So give me a break, you will get the paperwork. JUSt CHILL OUT!
Kevin  
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He claims the snakes i sent him wont eat and i told him well you dont have paperwork for me. i told him to send me my Supposed NON Eating snakes back and i would send him his Supposed VENOMOID back.. he still refuses to trade back yet the snakes i sent him wont eat and he cant get the paperwork this is just food for thought and i hope he doesnt scam anyone else like he has me... Heads up guys.

Paperwork does not a venomoid make. All the paperwork in thw world is utterly meaningless when it comes to venomoids (an ethical issue that I feel rather strongly about, but won't get into here).

Quite simply, try giving it a live mouse. If the mouse drops dead, you got yourself an unaltered snake. If not, you got what you paid for. Above all else though, if you rely on papers to prove an animal is venomoid, then you're taking a serious gamble when it comes to safety.

I wondered how you would check to see if an animal is still hot? Thanks for the idea. Of course, I do not keep hots nor do I plan to in the future.
sue frederick

I agree with what Ken said, a piece of paper is still not proof of an animal being venomoid or not.  I personally do not deal with venomoids, but betting your life on piece of paper is not the way to go with these guys.  As Ken said, drop a live mouse in and see if drops dead after being bit.  
Just a word of advice, though, if you are going to deal in venomoids, be sure you deal with someone you know and TRUST.  No use dying from a full envenomation because you thought you could trust Jimmy JohnJohn from the internet.

I don't think he wants a piece of paper as a way of knowing whether its hot or not, but it is nice to have paperwork saying that the surgery was done by a qualified individual and not some hack, not to mention, at least some professional document to say that it was actually done. Knowing which procedure might be nice too... since some procedures obviously have more chance of regenerating than others.

I don't see the point of venomoids personally. If you can't stand the heat, don't get in the fire.

AD

Just goes to show you that you can always find SOMETHING else about this hobby that disgusts you. You mean people are performing surgery to "de-venomize" snakes so they can keep them? Throw them all on a pile with the Mutt Makers and toss a match on it.

My .02

Tom Chambers
TC Reptile

All ethical issues aside, I'm very interested to know the results of the mouse test.  In any event, if I aquired a snake that, at any point was hot, I would treat it like a hot until it was dead.  (And I still wouldn't handle it then)

Unfortunately it is almost impossible to even mention the word venomoid without some debate popping up.

But anyway, yes, the results of the mouse test would be very interesting to see.  I do have a question, though, if he was sent non-feeding puffs as feeding, then were you not misrepresenting your snakes as well?  I am not sure as I don't remember you saying if they were feeding or not.  Please clarify that.  Although venomous are no thing to joke or play around with, I personally feel if you misrepresented the snakes you sent him, and he misrepresented the snake he sent you, then you are about even am I right?

the snakes i sent him were feeding... he has said nothing to me until this point about them not feeding thats the thing he is trying to bring into this that they were not feeding when in reality it was about the snake he sent me. i have dropped a mouse and it dies i know its not a venomoid my poiont is to make sure he does not send his other SUPPOSED VENOMOID's to a non experienced keeper. i keep a load of hots and a load of venomoids. i know about the mouse test and yess the mouse died end of story my point to this thread was to make sure inexperinced keepers do not buy one form him think there devenomized and get tagged full blow envenomation. i knew from the time i fed him he wasnt a venomoid i wanted to see how many exuses the guy was gonna give me. iuts a shame people have to goto that extent to get rid of there animals. i woule have payed him for the hot snake rather then be ripped off and make himself out to be a fool.

Thanks for helping clear that up about the puffs.  

But definitely if this guy is attempting to sell a regular hot as a venomoid, that is a VERY serious issue.  If someone died from a bite from one of his supposed "venomoids" wouldn't that be considered manslaughter or something?  

Although I don't deal in venomoids, thanks for the heads up about this person.  It shows me another dealer not to bother with.

In dealing with Venomoids it is a touchy situation.  Yes if a person sells a snake as venomoid and it is in fact full intact and bites a person the seller can be held for manslaughter at the minimum.  Possibly second degree. (it would depend on the state and prosecutor)  This is a serious situation and this person needs to have more than a slap on the wrist. I would suggest you contact the Dept. of Natural Resources or Dept. of Wildlife in his state, let them know what he did, and they will surely handle it from there.  If his state has a permit requirement for keeping hots and selling them, he will be fined and possibly lose his license.  Do not take thie situation lightly anyone!!.  This is a CRIMINAL ACT!!!

thanks for the info i will try and contact the mentiones people thanks. again just wanted to let people know how he is doing business.

As Rob said, definitely contact the local wildlife law enforcement agencies in his town.  Being sent a fully hot timber as a venomoid is no joke and this dude should be shut down.

I agree with everyone that has posted responses to the claims that this guy is claiming. BUT, THE FACT IS, his B.S. is totally untrue.  The canebrake is venomoid, the paperwork is on it's way as of  a few hours ago.  I would NEVER sell a hot snake as venomoid, no money is worth someone's life, and someone's life is sure as heck not worth a few baby puff adders.
Kevin Smith

Kevin,

If what your saying is true, then you should not have EVER sent the snake out in the first place WITHOUT the paperwork.  If you truly are that concerned you should have been a little more concerned in the begining.  I am sure we will hear if he receives the papers and they are legitimate.

exactly what i said rob, i told him dont bother sending the snake out to me unless it has paperwork and he assures me that day he PROMISED, he called the gy and it weas coming out the next mornign its now 3 weeks later. And now that ive come to the BOI he claims it went out today.. ITs awful fishy and then hes like this is the guy that did the surgery on the snake. and give me his emaill addy, i emailed him get no response . then kevin decides to email me saying im a liar this and that.. if he owuld have been honest with me from the get go e woundln't have this thread i told Him DO NOT SEND THE SNAKE WITH NO PAPERWORK, i wasnt going to even ship his stuff till i got it but he assured me it was being sent out the next morning and i gave him the benifit of the doubt.

I hope he truly did send the paperwork out as he said he did for your benefit and that they are valid papers.  Also you need to post your full name on each thread otherwise they will get deleted.  You can add it into your signature under your options and it will be automatically done each time you post.

god only knows what paperwork is Supposedly getting sent ot me cant wait to see. trust me i wil call any info on the paperwork once i recieve it. ill scan a copy of it too to show everyone what was sent to me if anyone wants to See it if it ever arrives like i said its been 3 weeks of its in the mail tomorow so.. will see.. lol..

Kevin Smith, I would think that you would have at least a copy of the paperwork still.  How about you post a scan of it?  No scanner?  How about a pic?  Just so we know you aren't BSing.

uffern, see he didnt do the surgery so he couldnt right it he stated.. the funny thing is i never asked him to write it when i stated i would not fo the deal if he didnt have paperwork he stated yes i will deffinitly send it =with the snake.. its been at least 3 weeks of being told its in the mail tomorow. From his friend whom he gave me an email address which i sent an email too never got a response. kevin then emails me calling me this and that and that i am a liar. he knows he doesent have paperwork for the snake cause its hot. he is a scammer and playing with fire sendind someone like me an experienced keeper a hot snake as a venomoid of course i would live test with the animal even if i had the paperwork on the surgery as ii would with nay venomoid i would purchase... but he likes to make up lies i will scan what papers he is sending me if he does.. and i will post.. i look forward to seein what i get and yes what u were saying too he should still have a copy of the paperwork which he dont cause there never was a surgery done on the snake.