125 Gal Setup, please Advise

[Toby_H]

I am a seasoned Reptile owner, but have never kept beardies, thus I come to you for advice...

I have a 6' (183cm) long x 18" (46 cm) wide @ 21" (53 cm) tall, 125 Gal aquarium.

It is currently set up with pool sand substrate, tons of rock/slate solidly stacked structures and a bunch of driftwood laying about. It has been used in this fashion for many years as a fish tank, but I no longer want to use it for fish...

I can/will build a DIY sealed wood top w/ screen... it will be custom built to facilitate both heat and UVB lighting...


My questions are:

1) Please direct me to trust worthy links with care tips and housing needs, especially one that will include tips on housing a small 'colony'...

2) How many (adults) will be able to happily thrive in such an environment? Bare in mind there are TONS of hiding spots plenty big enough for a Beardy & at least two sunning areas will be provided. Breeding would be a nice bonus, but is not the goal.

3) Are there any other creatures I could safely keep in such an enclosure along with them?

4) Is there another species that would work better in such an enclosure? This will primarily be a "display" set up, though the reptile will be handled some. They key elements to this enclosure is it be low maintenance and low humidity.


Any other input/advice is also welcome...

 

[Rud3Bwoy]

bearded dragons should not be kept together unless they are going to be bred which even then they will need to be removed every week or so,secondly a 125 gallon long wise is good,width is not good at all,i would get rid of that enclosure and get a proper sized enclosure that will have proper width and length for a bearded dragon.also remove the pool it will drive the humidity up in your enclosure these are desert reptiles they need a low humidity level they are not forest reptiles which needs high humidity and having such a high humidity can lead to health problems down the line.and no do not house any other reptiles with your dragon it will cause stress and fighting as stated before





even tho i have room to house 2 on top it's not suggested i got another enclosure last week for my new dragon,don't mind the bottom one it looks bare because it wasn't finished at the time tho tiles and everything was added 2 days ago

 

[Ed Clark]

A few quick thoughts.

Not a good idea keeping a group together as they will breed constantly. you can keep 2-3 females in there with your male kept in another cage. keeping in a tank like that you need to get the lights down low so the UVB actually does some good.

That set up would work for uromastyx or leos as well as other types of lizards.

 

[Rud3Bwoy]

o sorry i made a mistake on the measurements that's fine but as stated above you need to mount the uvb inside somewhere,rio reptiles actually sell something to do the job but you might need a custom one made,not sure you can contact her.

 

[Toby_H]

My goal here is for a low maintenance display cage, so breeding is not important to me, at least at this point...

Would a tank this size work to house a few females, no male?

As mentioned, thee is a ton of rock and wood stacked, so that they could bask quite close to a top mounted light... I will try to post a pic tomorrow...

I read the breeding sticky, which has assured me breeding will require more "work" than I want for this enclosure...

 

[Rud3Bwoy]

can you really house two females together with out a issue?cause i heard other wise cause if this is the case i can move my male to my bottom enclosure and get another female for my 46x2x18

 

[Cache Reptiles]

Females that have been housed with other dragons (male or female) while growing up, typically don't have problems being housed with other females once they become adults.

Females that have been housed by themselves once they outgrew the hatchling stage on the other hand can have problems being housed with other females. Usually it's just some head bobbing and mounting for a few days, then they settle down. But some females just want to be housed alone. It all depends on the individual animal.

Your best bet would be to purchase juvenile females, than raise them up together. So far, I haven't had any problems with females fighting that had been raised together. One thing to watch out for in a cage that large, is one of the more submissive females hiding most of the time and missing meals. Than you'll have problems.

 

[jellyfishrhythm]

I agree with Ed and Dillon, for sure. Male beardies tend to be bullies when they're around females, especially a group of them. Typical man ;-)

That being said, I have 6 female adult dragons at the moment, living in two separate trios, and they do great together. They've been together since they were juvies, and there's never been so much as a scuffle between them. As long as equal access to resources is maintained (including but not limited to: hiding spots, basking spots, food sources), I'd be shocked if you had any problem. I wouldn't put more than two or three together, as that gets a little hairy (and oh, so much poop to clean!), but females are pretty gregarious and tend to "hang out" with their cage mates more often than not.

That being said, the possibility always exists that you'll get one with a bad attitude and/or a dominance complex. If that's the case, of course, you'd have to separate the trouble-maker, so a backup enclosure for a colony of female dragons is a good thing to have on hand in case that situation arises.

The dimensions sound lovely, I'd like to have a tank that size to display some of my girls! You're right on with providing several basking spots, just be sure they're located on one side of the enclosure, leaving the other side essentially "cool" (ambient light is OK, considering that it's a display tank). Heat gradients are important with semi-arid species like beardies. Also, be sure the UVB is in the same location as the basking spots, or it won't do you a darn bit of good. Simultaneous absorption of the UVA and UVB radiation seems to be the most effective way of maintaining proper metabolism. It makes for a crowded screen top, but mounting the tube light inside (always tube - never coil for UVB) would help alleviate the problem.

To address the idea of keeping other animals WITH the beardies, I would definitely advise against it. Beardies, among other things, love to eat. I wouldn't put it past a dragon to try and snatch up a tasty looking desert gecko, or a worm-like sand boa and try to eat it. Hell, I've seen bigger hatchlings from the SAME CLUTCH try to eat their brothers and sisters. It's a cruel world out there, within the food chain.

That set-up would be good for collared lizards, and things of that nature - smaller desert agamids (under 24") - I wouldn't recommend it for leopard geckos, namely because of the substrate - leos are SUPER prone to impaction - but also because leopard geckos are nocturnal, and are far less stressed when they're "dark" on at least three sides. UVB and vertical heat aren't required for a happy leo. Most gecko breeders use rack systems similar to those used with ball pythons, heated on one side, supplementing a circadian rhythm using ambient lighting in the room during the day, and turning it off at night. They're secretive little buggers, and would rather not be out in the open as they're a prey species for many predators in their natural habitat, and that kind of presumed vulnerability is stressful. If you were to tweak the set-up to house a pair of uromastyx (smaller species, like the ornates or the Saharans), you'd have to increase the depth of the substrate substantially. Uros are diggers and hiders, and bask at SUPER high temperatures. Definitely would have to be a pair of females though, again. You think a fight between male dragons is bad? Sheesh, uros are vicious when they want to be! They're an AWESOME genus to work with, and extremely hardy if you set it up right to begin with. I lost my male Saharan a few months ago to old age, and I was absolutely heartbroken. Such a great lizard.

Hope this was somewhat helpful! Let us know what you decide, and pictures!

...bearded-dragon.org has some great info, too, but your best bet is to ask other experienced beardie keepers (as you're doing now) - husbandry is not an exact science, and cannot be treated as such in the manner of establishing a set of ironclad "rules". Some things are pretty standard, but most factors have a considerable amount of wiggle room on either side.

I really need to learn to shorten my posts, jeez!

 

[Toby_H]

Thanks a ton, this is just the sort of conversation I was hoping would flow!

This is the Aquarium as it sits. Again, it's a 6' (183cm) long x 18" (46 cm) wide @ 21" (53 cm) tall, 125 Gal aquarium. It is on top of a 8' x 3' Argentinean Tegu Enclosure (20 lbs of purely adorable reptile)... The base of the rock work is all square cut rock so it is very stable and everything is weighted/balanced/propped/reinforced so shifting concerns are nill...

That being said, this is how it was left after the water was drained, so alterations can easily be made to suit it's new (potential) inhabitants... Also note, I have an empty 30" (76 cm) x 12" (30 cm) 30 gal aquarium I could use to temporarily house a trouble maker in...

Keep in mind the goal of this enclosure is to be a low maintenance display... and it needs to be a dry environment...


I'm leaning towards Bearded Dragons for two main reasons: 1) Their typically easily handleable even without constant handling & B) They are (relatively) highly sought after if I ever decide to move in the direction of breeding them (understanding that would be a total different set up / approach)


I've kept Collared Lizards in the past, and while they were great for me at that time, my understanding is they will need very frequent attention to prevent them from being skittish and daily attention to keep them handleable. And that's just not what I want out of this set up. Plus they get a touch larger than what I am envisioning here.


Ornate Uromastyx is a viable option, I'll consider that one further...


Assuming I go with Bearded Dragons...
I'm thinking a heat bulb to the far left w/ a 2' strip UVB on that side also (there is a glass center brace in this old Oceanic Aquarium that is 20" wide)... shift the wood around a bit to make more elevated basking platforms beneath those lights... Would you suggest a much cheaper standard bulb for the right side, or a second UVB?

Would Hermit Crabs or any other sort of small non competing critter be able to happily/peacefully coexist?

Are there any sort of food items that could colonize in the enclosure that would not stress the lizards? I know crickets will stress and even feed on larger animals if left in a cage, but I'm wondering about any sort of snail (desert snail???) or non threatening burrowing bug... I love the idea of a mini-ecosystem.


As for lizard stocking... Editing what I want by what I'm reading (above and elsewhere)... it seems 3 adult females would be my comfortable top limit. Thus my idea would be to find 3~5 high quality female hatchlings and begin growing them out together. As they begin to mature, select the 3 that coexist the best and keep them...

Naturally this will only work if sub adult to adult females are practically re-homed. Question: would a well kept quality young adult female be sought after by breeders (or others) at a trade show? I'm not concerned with "turning a profit", but just re-homing "extras".


Thanks again to everyone for the input, I'm sure I'll come up with more questions... and any ideas or experiences on such a set up are very welcome...