A ban-free environment

[WebSlave]

You know, I'm thinking about dropping the whole idea of banning someone from this site. The whole idea just makes me feel kind of dirty like I am some kind of micro-God and can banish someone with the wave of my magic wand. And I guess it makes me see a hint of old "you know who" when I look in the mirror. Who the heck am I to tell someone that they can't read what someone else wants to post here? Shouldn't that be at the reader's own discretion?

I would still keep the warning system in place, but it would be just as a nudge to people to let them know when they have stepped over the line on something, and also a guide to other people to see how a person handles themselves following set rules. But the banning level would be dropped.

Chaos? The end of civilization as we know it? The forums filled with garbage from people who SHOULD be banned?

Not hardly.

Each person has the capability of effectively banning a person from their view on this site. Check this out, if you haven't already:

The Ignore List

See? You personally can block absolutely anyone you want from having their messages posted on threads you read. So in effect, you can ban who the heck you want to, and I can stay out of the middle of it.

But this is a two edged sword, of course. There is always the possibility that a person on your Ignore List may very well say something you may want to hear, if you knew it was being said. And of course, it could get pretty lonely in here if everyone had everyone else on their own ignore list. But I guess it is possible to do, if you are so inclined.

And it takes the responsibility of knowing who to ban and when exactly it needs to be done and puts it squarely on YOUR shoulders.

So, what do you think?

 

[JungleHabitats]

Hey Rich

Thats not a bad idea in the least ... this way when the ones that we know to be bad are talked about they can just shove there feet further down there throat. and that would IMO make the board alot more credible in the fact that no one can say well john doe isnt here to defend himself so its not fair .But you being the ADMIN still have full rein in locking down the hatches on a thread that gets on a head on collison with a train . so i would say to let the wolves out of there cage and let them do what they do best regardless or not if there banned does it really stop what they do best ?If there going to do people wrong they can do it just as well with there words in print where they cant erase them that has been proved here before ! so i say "RELEASE THE HOUNDS" lol im sure what ever you decide will be the right choice

 

[Seamus Haley]

Oddly enough... I think that the point system that has been put into place is more than fair and more than appropriate.

It might sound a bit odd, since I'm pretty sure that I'm the user with the highest warning level who wasn't an obvious troublemaking "Emergency Lockout" troll and the most likely candidate for incrimental, multiple offense style banning if it ever comes down to it BUT...

As much as I personally don't mind strong language, I also believe that there is a vast Silent Majority (In middle America?) who do potentially take offense...

Biggoted or hate speech really has no place on these boards.

The full name rule would become virtually unenforceable unless you and Ken are going to invest MUCH more time than you already have into moderating the boards and deleting posts and threads at the first offense.

The same goes for inappropriate forum posting, inappropriate title terms and shotgun/spamming advertising in the classifieds sections.

There already exists a forum that is essentially lawless on a few of it's boards... The Reptile Room over at Novogate has the war room forums. Are they a lot of fun? Sure. Are they mature and reasonable discussions about business related topics? Not even close (they weren't intended to be). Despite the somewhat vocal objections of a few people who find the current system cutting off any toes that move up to that line, I believe... have no hard evidence really, but I *believe* that the majority of fauna posters are more than content to obey the very few, very simple rules that have been set forth to maintain the attitude required for the goal the BOI and Fauna have set out to accomplish.

Sometimes it seems as if an idea has more support than it does because a few lonely sociopaths (I think we all know who I mean here) are frothing at the mouth and drooling all over themselves to spout off their ideas (meaning "critiscism because things didn't go their way")... Don't let the ravings of an unproductive minority deter you from the path you have chosen.

I'd like to throw in there that I don't consider Alan and his response to be the ravings of the deranged, I just wonder if it's really the right decision to cave in to the Gubitzs, Adam Blocks, Gilbert Thompsons, "Roger Jolly"s, Upstate Exotics and other individuals who see the world as win or lose... and their history here as losing. They are not presenting reasonable critiscism or suggestion, they're just being noisy because their own mistakes came and bit them in the... Business reputation.

 

[JungleHabitats]

Seamus

You my friend have a beautiful way with words lol


The reason i had stated to let the banned wolves back in the wild is this .

For the ones who are banned well it is obvious to most of why there were banned ?

Now When people make a inquiry as to those people on the BOI and all they get are the rest of us explaining why not to do buisnes with that person/s or advising them against it as to there reptuation IE: of how they feel and there actions and how they respond to criticisim of conflict about them as doing buisness

By letting them have the right to respond to there accusers and when they respond there "demeanor" in that response will do two things in my opinion:

1. Show the person that had asked about them to see how this person/s handles them self under the gun of the peers whom have witnessed there wrong doings
2. or just validate what the other board memeber have warned the asker of
   [/list=1]
   
   Also i think that if Webslave could somehow have it set up that a banned member/user that is allowed back into/onto the forums and Boi in a whole could possibly make it known in that persons signature/profile or when they post that that person/s have been banned in the past and for there conduct that got them banned ?
   
   im not sure if that really came out the way my meager lil mind was thinking or not lol .
   
   kind of like ( and not to compare them to ) but a sexual offender or such they have to list that they are a convicted what ever or no different then a felon if you have done something wrong in your past its of PUBLIC record to everyone around you..Now i can here whats going to come now lol what if that person has changed ?? well thats great if they have but they will have to work harder to Prove to the community as a whole that yes they have a record ... but they have changed there ways since then being convicted or what ever ? gee i hope i making even a little sense lol let me try this
   
   
   
   Ok say the banned person username is this :
   
   John Does Reptiles
   
   when he makes a post in any forum he would be indentified in that post as such that follows >
   
   

   John Does Reptiles
   123 Nowhere Lane
   Somewhere ST
   Previously banned :Level 1 offense

   
   
   Now if there was something set up like the points system
   (like the points to explain what that offense was for )
   then people that didnt knowwhy or what had happened before could be aware with out searching through yrs of threads to try and figure it out for themsleves ? i dont know maybe im being crazy and im sure webslave will think so ... lol ok im done rambling on

 

[WebSlave]

Damn..... over 6,300 members on this site and only eight (8) people have voted on this.

Maybe I need to just delete ALL of the forums and just have this whole site one great big humongous forum.

I'll name it The Board of Inquiry Plus

 

[Clay Davenport]

I haven't voted because I can't decide. I see points to favor both directions.
I don't think you should abandon all banning entirely, there will come a point that someone will need it.
I can see putting a hold on bannings except for extreme circumstances though, just keep the option open.
Either way you go I don't forsee you ever getting to the point of banishment to the level that would begin to compare with other havens of attempted total information control.
I hear there's going to be a book burning before long and the titles of all remaining herp books will end with "for dummies"

 

[Adam Block]

Rich Just let more people know about this!!

Ignore lists are used for those people who's messages you wish not to read. By adding someone to your ignore list, those messages posted by these individuals will be hidden when you read a thread.

You do a good job and the point system is very good and fair. I do think you need to do a better job of staying on it as it looks unfair when you see some things people have points for and others that get away with murder. I think many have the impression it's just so you can use the points to ban somebody if they're on your nerves. I don't know that's why you did it but I always assumed that.

Either way I support you even if you decide to ban me.

 

[HerpVenue]

I think many have the impression it's just so you can use the points to ban somebody if they're on your nerves. I don't know that's why you did it but I always assumed that.

Wow
1. He made mutliple user names after being banned.
2. I ritchie Luna got a warning because of his $t^)id @$$

and he says it is unfair?

The guy who is back to his own tricks after being banned?

 

[HerpVenue]

I voted for ban free.


only because ban free within reason is not available.
Some people do need to be banned. Someone somewhere in the future needs such actions taken against them.

 

[Adam Block]

Annnnndddd here's my Groupie!

Case in point Webslave, the guy can't even leave me alone in here. This is insane!

My post is meant to be productive, I was telling you how I felt about the point system.

Why don't you do this. Tell me I can't make comments towards him and he in turn can't towards me. It would be nice for somebody adult to step in and end this chishish crap as it's starting to not only be very uncalled for but all together annoying to many fauna users.

 

[WebSlave]

I'm thinking of a "go to your room, and don't come out till I say so" kind of a ban. Lower the total points necessary for that to kick in, say maybe 10 points, yet limit the banning to 10 to 30 days. Kind of a cooling off period. Of course, I am never going to remember to check up on someone temporarily banned, so unless they remind me about it they will be banned until I have a reason to think about them again.

But I don't know, maybe I'm just making more work for myself.

The warning system now in place was to be able to give someone fair warning that what they are doing is not acceptable here. But perhaps I should reevaluate the weighting of the infractions. Make the ones more indicative of premeditated abuse more to the level of a "three strikes and you are out" system.

I had hoped the warning points would help guide people to do two things here:

(1) Establish credibility by stating your identification and keep things on an even keel.

(2) Keep the discussions at least appearing that we have adults participating in the forums rather than kids huffing and strutting in the schoolyard.

Perhaps another method is needed to meet these goals.

Or I could just simplify it even further and use the technique that another webmaster uses on his own site: "Anyone can be banned at any time, for whatever reason I may think of at the time that fits the situation."

As for the Adam Block/Ritchie Luna/ Jason Sweigart "love triangle" I think that all three of you better start ignoring each other. Pronto.

 

[JungleHabitats]

rich

i like the cooling off period idea

would there be a way to do something like this ?

10 points - 10 day ban from posting 1st offense(read only)
20 points - 20 day ban from posting 2nd offense(read only)
30 points - 30 day ban from posting 3rd offense(site ban)
40 points - banned indefinately by webslave (total ban)

gave it set up with a "3 strikes " your out rules but at the same time you would have the grace period for them to think about getting out of hand next time.


but if it could be done this was to make it easy on you not to forget about there bans have it set so that you can just check a box and that it would possibly be on a timer like you tell it 10 days ,20 days etc?
i dont know i just woke up from a short over needed rest lol so if this is garbage talk im sorry lol

 

[Adam Block]

Alan

10 points - 10 day ban from posting 1st offense(read only)
20 points - 20 day ban from posting 2nd offense(read only)
30 points - 30 day ban from posting 3rd offense(site ban)
40 points - banned indefinately by webslave (total ban)

Excellent idea! Very good, you would need somebody to evenly enforce the TOS though. Someobdy who you feel would be fair. Or put it up to a vote.

In the poll I said not to ban anybody however I think the above is a great idea. With the points and making public what they did effectivly you're not banning anybody they're banning themselves.

The only thing I can't stress enough is to find somebody fair to issue points. Like maybe my wife.

 

[JungleHabitats]

voting problem

IMO then you would have people casting votes just becasue they dont like someone and IMO that would be worse then just a out right ban w/o explanation.

 

[Adam Block]

Sorry I didn't say what I thought, this is why I'm always looking like a fool on the BOI. I never come of well with written word, not sure why but what I mean and what I type don't come of the same.

I was meaning put the person in charge of giving points up to a vote.

The trouble with the point system is that Rich wants a little bit of a life and he can't just run around looking for volations. He needs somebody who uses fauna a lot to step up and say they're willing (I think).

Is that what I said my last post or not?

 

[Darin Chappell]

The problem is that if you do not ban the ones who so desperately need it, the rest of us have to suffer through their idiocies all the time. That may not be a big enough problem to justify the demigod sensation you are getting by banning people, but it is something to consider.

I realize one can choose to use the ignore button, but try doing that sometime in a heated discussion on the BOI wherein someone has posted a dozen times over a period of twenty minutes in a heated argument with someone you have not ignored! It doesn't make for good reading, I assure you.

I am biased, though. I have to admit that certain individuals would brighten my day by never entering into my thoughts again. I do not consider them at all unless they post here, and everything would be coming up daisies for me if they no longer could. But I am not "King of the Internet" for that and a variety of other reasons, I am certain.

 

[JungleHabitats]

childish fighting

Well first i just want to say please if you take offense that well beyond my control guys.One thing IMO that really clutters up the forums and ESP the BOI is the on going fueds between a few certain people i wont mention names because i think it is obvious.

I can somewhat understand that each of you want to prove that the other is wrong and maybe i have not read enough into it to really know the " whole story" butits probably due to the fact that i could really care less. I know i do not like the fact that it seems you chase each other from thread to thread to make your points i believe as long as some of this has gone on here you would come to the conclusion that its not going to be solved like some Miracle from Benny Hin thats going to come down slap you on the forhead and Viola its over.I also understand that iy really digs at each of you when the other posts something thats somewhat understandable but i think if you both were to just drop the ball and refuse to respond to the others actions it would really go away and not be such a factor in that if one doesnt bring up the others name then the other should have no reason to respond ?Its human nature to want or feel the need to defend yourself when attacked but if you can find it to not feel the need to attack there would be no need to defend. And if those are not plauseable things to work with maybe you need your own " hidden" spot to just go for the juggulars where only you and people who want to watch it go down can have a usergroup set up for that so that anytime you feel that need you and anyon who cares to watch can "login into" that usergroup and well get it on there . I dont know for sure but i can only imagine that when others login in to the forums and read thread after thread it only does some level of damage to the credences(sp) of the use of this board/s and just gives outsiders who depise the forums here a more even keeled argument to say if you dont think that board this or that go look at this thread , that thread and you will see what i mean .

So with that that would be something i would suggest to be added if you must argue with each other that you have your own room to do so in . And save others of having to weed through threads of off topic stalkings just to prove points.

 

[WebSlave]

Well, with just 18 votes out of over 6,000 registered members, obviously most people don't care one way or the other.

I have reinstated Neil Gubitz. And no, I am not going to ban Adam Block again as I was seriously thinking of doing.

I am extremely afraid of incrementally becoming another "you know who" with this banning stuff.

If people get out of hand, I will incorporate temporary bans to give them a cooling off period. If necessary, this will encompass ALL members participating in a heated feud. If at all possible, I will issue one, and only one, warning.

But my best suggestion to everyone is that if you don't care to read what someone is writing, then don't. No one is twisting your arm to read their messages, so if you do read them, please don't complain to me about it.

 

[Wilomn]

I think you may not have many commenting on this topic because they don't know it's here. I just found out by a kindly pm sent to me.

I think there should be an option of permanent banning. Some people abuse the priviledge of being here. They do so repeatedly. gubitz is a perfect example.

Rich, you will always be a far cry from jeff over at ks. This is obvious from everything you do and the manner in which you do it. But like any parent sometimes when you say no, you really have to mean no. Otherwise it will never matter what you say. You will lose credibility.

Perhaps a lind over on the boi would help get more opinions on this topic.

Wes Pollock

 

[Dragondad]

Vote

I have to agree with Wes, I think the problem with this thread isnt that people dont care its that people dont know. I rarely go outside of the BOI or a couple of other topics and just discovered this by accident. And yet my vote seemed to even out the score to the point is back to your choice.

I agree some sort of ban needs to be there( the cooling off) but as with some they do need to be able to defend themselves. Or at least continue to spout the dribble so we can become even more unimpressed. I am not in favore of any sort of permanent ban.