Bad Guy Adam Vordermark

[amercnwmn]

Well I held off doing this because I know Adam and his g/f had some emotionally trying times, but I've seen where he's posting about buying and modifying new guns, so I think the emotional and financial problems they were having have improved and he COULD be paying me back.


So here's the story:

Sept 2010 I was looking to downsize my venomous collection, I'd had knee surgery, it wasn't better, it was a risk. Adam Vordermark had previously purchased an Naja kaouthia from me and paid cash up front. I felt I knew him from online well enough to make an arrangement with him.

My screen shots are tiny, but it basically ended in my agreeing to travel from NW Arkansas to the Omaha NE show in OCTOBER 2010 to meet him and deliver my Naja haje (free due to a one-eye defect) and my Atheris chlorechis pair & a juvenile Kenyan Bitis arietans along with a white Animal Plastics T10 (4ft cage for the N. haje)

Here's the copy/paste of the Facebook conversations in the above screen shot:

Court Roles
Don't want my N. haje do you? I like her, but I'm trying to down size.
I'll give her to you, if you want her. Dunno when I'll be in KC again though.

September 25, 2010Adam Atra Vordermark
**** court, i moved.. I want it fo shizzle, but i doubt id be able to meet up with you anytime soon... and i need to get rid of that bluecaymanXrhino iguana hybrid....

September 27, 2010Court Roles
Gonna try to make it down there for the show
You don't happen to know anyone wanting a small female Kenyan CB 09 Puff Adder, and a pair of Atheris Chlorechis (green bush vipers) while you're at it?
If I can unload a few more things while I'm there, I can just about afford the trip..lol
I'm asking $100 for the 4ft white AP cage it's a T10 48L X 15H X24D
I'll just give you the N. haje if I can manage to get down there.
$75 for the Puffy and $200 for the pair of chlorechis.
Let me know

September 27, 2010 Adam Atra Vordermark
f**** man, i want those bush's but i cant afford em right now. i could do payments. and that cage would be h***a useful i can swing 100 for it for sure. im stoked about the haje as for the puff, id always be happy to. im geting a new pupy in the next 2 weeks, so im gonna be spendin a bit to get ready for that too. ill try to talk to a few people I know here about them, but i doubt ive got anyone here for hots other than myself. ive still gotta unload that G**da** iguana too! but yeah let me know! im excited!


Court Roles
lol..I hear ya..
If you can swing $150 for the Chlorechis I'll hook ya up.

September 27, 2010Adam Atra Vordermark
d****quit tempting me!!! I get paid on friday and its only gonna be about 275$ because I get paid weekly, but i gotta give 100 to you for the cage and 100 to my buddy for the puppy, and I gotta get groceries because I only have like 5 slices of bread and half a box of oatmeal to last me 2 weeks... if you wanna let me pay you next week I could easily do that. But if not, I understand.

September 27, 2010Court Roles
lmao.. No worries bro, if we need to go that way, we can roll that way.

Got any nice snakes for sale/trade? I'm trying to get more non-vens for kids and school I can trade ya out the bushies too if you are up for that. I'm just trying to go more kid friendly. I'm keeping my Squams, but everything else I have left is up for sale/trade.

**SKIPPING THROUGH THE INANE AND NOT APPLICABLE CONVOS THAT TOOK PLACE IN BETWEEN**

Adam Atra Vordermark
i want the little puffy too.... damn you courtney for having such BA snakes....

September 28, 2010Court Roles
Lol

September 29, 2010Court Roles
So I was thinkin, if you want, you can pay for the cage this weekend, and I'll go on and bring you the haje, bush vipers, and puffy and you can pay me in payments for awhile if you want. That way you aren't out a big ** lump sum next week too. Save you having to try to work out a trade or whatever.
I wouldn't have half the snakes I have if people hadn't worked with me on a few.
You're gonna love that Puff. The female chlorechis just shed last night the male shed a couple of days ago. Of course she got some stuck on her face..They have been on and off feed some, but they haven't lost any size really. I offer about every 2 weeks and generally they eat about 1ce a month if that. Arboreals are a PITA like that.

September 29, 2010Adam Atra Vordermark
that sounds baller my homie. you let me know the dealio and ill be cool with it.
im so excited!!!!! and I know ill love the puff shes adorable!!!

Court Roles
she's a pretty snake! I got her from Jim Keenan @ Homegrown Herps last Memphis Repticon..forget what month that was...lol
In any case she's a CB 09 Kenyan Puff. Jim has great animals.

The male A. chlorechis was from Green Desert Reptiles
and the female was from Matt @ Victory, the haje is from Glades.
Not sure on the sex, was told the eye was an injury, she was a trade to them..but LTC. I've had her a little over 2yrs.

**More inane messages I cut out because they aren't pertinent to the topic.*8

Obviously the snakes WERE delivered, he paid me the $100 for the white AP cage. I delievered the N. haje, 2 A. chlorechis & 1 B. arietans with the above agreement to make payments for the $225 balance.

No payment or anything was made..I saw him inquirng on a mutual friend's wall about buying a pair of Boiga dendrophila

At this point he owed me $75 for the Puff Adder and $150 for the Bush Vipers.
$225 total.

Here's the 2nd part:

I actually confronted him on his wall with this post, which resulted in his removing me from his friend's list.

We need to work out something for getting the pair of Bush vipers and the puff adder paid for. I didn't have an issue waiting, but since you obviously have the money to be buying snakes from other people, you can either A) pay me or B) send the snakes back to me. I can make arrangements to pick them up, or I can get them. Either way, but this has gone on long enough

His reply:

That's fine, Court. The only way I was going to be able to pay Sean is if I get my taxes back before the show. And if I don't I was going to borrow money from my girlfriend.

By now I'm getting more angry..

Well, you can do that, and pay me.

I will, courtney, don't think I wont

April 14th 2011 I got this PM on Facebook asking for my address and telling me he was sending me money. I have YET to receive one red cent.

At this time, I was removed from his friend's list but still able to post on his wall..So AFTER the April 14th PM and I hadn't received money, I sent him this on his wall May 2nd 2011. I was IMMEDIATELY blocked from viewing his wall and photos.

Since you have not made ANY attempt since Oct 2010 to pay me for the pair of Atheris chlorechis and Puff Adder, I'm going to post a thread on the BOI. Although it's my understanding I'm NOT the only person you owe money to for snakes, so I realize your reputation isn't very important to you.
I also spoke to Sean**** who agreed to pick the snakes up from you if you are unable to pay me. I've been MORE than patient, because I considered you friend, but this is B******T.

I got a PM reply back

Adam Atra Vordermark
Im sorry courtney, but I know very well where my relationship stands with the people who know me. And as for the money I owe you, I'm working on it. I have a life too, I have medical bills too. And if you really want to hear the full details, My girlfriend and I lost our baby 2 weeks ago so i was out of work for a week being in the hospital and taking care of her. Whatever you want to think, and say go ahead, I am still going to pay you, s**just keeps getting in my way. And on top of all that the f**I work with still hasn't paid me for my gun I sold him. So you're NOT the only one who people owe money to, or are relying on people to pay you what they owe. Im sorry you see it the way you do, and im sorry its taken me this long in the first place.

My response also via PM on FB:

May 2Court Roles
Adam, I'm very sorry to hear about your baby. I had NOT heard about that. That is terrible. I wish you both the very best.

Unfortunately, I guess I just have to be the jerk that points out that NONE of this occurred back at the time we made our deal, in fact, you guys weren't even together then...Nor had this occurred when you tried to acquire Mangroves from Sean, or purchased new leos and guns.

You agreed to pay me, even by payments, and you never held up your end of the deal. This goes back to last Fall.

I am not "heartless" or "inconsiderate", as this has been over 7 mos in the making. Keeping in contact with me, instead of just blowing me off entirely would have solved a lot of issues. This should have been resolved LONG before your recent tragedy.

I do wish you both the best, I hope that Shaili is doing well. I will hold off and give you more time, out of respect for your loss. Just keep in touch and let me know what's up.
All my best to you both.

And his follow up:

May 2Adam Atra Vordermark
It happens. Thats life. Thank you for the wellwishes. She just started back at work today so that'll help. Shes been out for 2 weeks.

As for me trying to "purchase" mangroves from sean. My buddy was willing to front me the money to buy a pair to try my hand at breeding them. And If that didnt fall through I had offered sean a 4 ft nile monitor in trade. So I would nt have been spending anything on them were the deal to occur. As for the leos, I have not purchased any of them either. A regular at my job had them for 5 years and didnt want them anymore and gave them to me, I then in turn traded them to a friend who breeds them for a pair of his geckos. And the first gun I had yes, I put a little money in to, and it is now sold, Im just waiting n the money which the guy has failed to give me. And the 22 a friend of mine purchased for me as a gift because I had been talking about it for a long time, hes old and retired and has money to throw around, and he had me buy him a gun with my credit card so his wife wouldnt know it was for him. I did him a favor he got me a gun. I spent nothing on it. So as for me personally purchasing anything since we made our deal I have only moved into a new place and started up bills for that place and paid the bills for that place. Other than that, Ive just been struggling. This month I work 7 days a week however since th only other night shift guy is having a heart surgery so my paychecks should be alot better, especially with shaili finally being back at work.

Ill do my best to keep you informed. And if the m**F**R that has my gun would pay me for it I would have sent/will send you the money all the sooner. Otherwise I get paid on friday for half a week that I worked last week and that should have enough to send you what I owe.
Thanks again for your well wishes.

May 2Court Roles
Well if you've got to, just send small payments. I agreed to accept that initially, cause I'm broke as a joke too. Like I said, I'm not being inflexible, but I do need to get this settled as soon as I can.

May 2Adam Atra Vordermark
I understand. And will definitely have something sent out by friday or sooner

As of June 11, 2011...I have received NO MORE than the $100 for the 4ft AP cage back in Oct. 2010. He still owes me $225, and TODAY was posting about a .40cal he was going to buy and showing off modifications to a .22 he recently had done.
Come on..Obviously his finances and emotional state aren't in THAT bad of shape.

Several different wall posts of animals he's acquired SINCE our arrangement, and guns he's been talking about modifying and buying:

Sorry I didn't get the dates on the photos but they've taken place in all SINCE the Oct. arrangement.

Today (June 11, 2011) I was informed by a un-attached 3rd party he has been inquiring about more animals and a .40cal gun.

My purpose for posting this is to ensure no one else gets ripped off, as I doubt he will start paying me just because there's a BOI thread.

 

[NIGRO51]

I would like to see what he has to say about all of this. Did you send him the link to this thread yet?

 

[amercnwmn]

Since I'm blocked from his page, I'm hoping one of my mutual friends on FB will be kind enough to share.

 

[NIGRO51]

Do you have an email address for him?

 

[Riyeko]

Im sorry to hear about this.
Looks like the guy had some losses and has forgotten what he owes you.
I would keep inquiring about the money that he owes, how MUCH the guy that bought the gun from him owes HIM, and then keep inquiring and keep bugging him until he gets his stuff together to get the funds for you.
I really hope this gets resolved. If he is buying other items with money that he has, he should be able to pay you off even with $5 here and there, if it comes down to that.

I would also like to point out, on a personal note, that it makes my eyes bleed when people type out "coolio" and "foshizzle" or whatever else he typed to you. >_<

 

[amercnwmn]

Nope..
I have 60 mutual friends..lol I asked 2 to contact him via PM w/ a link.

 

[amercnwmn]

IMO, I gave him 8months to pay, I made it pretty clear I would accept any nominal payment $20/mo something.. whatever....didn't really matter. Sure I could use the money, I have my own hardships like everyone else. I'd love to get even SOME of the money back.

At this point I'm obviously LESS interested in the money and more interested in making sure anyone who may considering a payment arrangement with him, will reconsider since he's obviously not able to repay debts.

 

[Katie.Shinkle]

Well that just sucks.

I know you are just wanting to warn others, but if he ever plans on making it anywhere he better pay up. I understand he had a rough time there, but he was still spending money on luxuries when the money should have been sent to you.

 

[KingBowser]

Call me cold hearted, but it gets old hearing people's excuses when they decide to screw you over. Sounds to me like this guy just doesn't want to pay for the snakes, period. I don't believe or trust anything he says.

 

[Pudgsr]

Well I know Adam through your Herp society here. I don't see Adam doing this stuff as he has bought stuff from me (i sell leopard geckos). I will get ahold of him for you and get this matter cleared up. thanks Pud Pudsleopardgeckos.com

 

[amercnwmn]

Thanks Jeff! I assure you, he definitely still has not sent any payment for the 3 snakes.

 

[amercnwmn]

The leos he purchased from you, were they, by any chance, the ones above? or different ones? I ask because somewhere in his last communications he specifies he was GIVEN all the geckos.

.As for the leos, I have not purchased any of them either. A regular at my job had them for 5 years and didnt want them anymore and gave them to me, I then in turn traded them to a friend who breeds them for a pair of his geckos

Were the purchases he made with you AFTER Oct 2010? Sorry, not trying to be rude, but I think it's pretty crappy to owe someone money and be buying more animals.

Like I said, conducting "cash up front" deals would be fine, I wouldn't work on a payment plan with him, because you may not get your money back.

 

[Pudgsr]

are reptile show was earlier this year and got stuff from me. Ones he sold me said he was given two big leopard geckos and he didn't want those anymore instead he wouldn't smaller geckos with designs. So he got a couple from me.

 

[amercnwmn]

Gotcha..so I got a PM

Adam Atra Vordermark

"Good one courtney! Takes someone special to post sh** like that on fauna! And way to b** about a bad deal! If everyone posted sh** like that because of one bad deal then NO ONE would get any business!!! And Yes i DO OWE YOU MONEY and STILL have every intention of paying you back! EVEN though what you did should be ILLEGAL. fuckin posting pictures of peoples facebook pages? Wtf is wrong with you?"

If I'd have heard from him, I dunno...ONCE a month?? And from HIM NOT from reading where he's acquiring more animals, or guns or whatever....This thread wouldn't exist.

 

[amercnwmn]

OH crap!! ..sorry tried to edit all of it and I just saw the F*bomb. Dangit.

 

[Deku]

Hoping nobody gets mad at me for making any comments since I'm not trying to be mean. But I must voice out my opinion!
This guy(adam) is of the following:
-Irresponsible: If he can't work out his life in the first place, how can he give care to other living beings? So what if someone died? A responsible person wouldn't use such excuses. 250dollars? He couldn't even pay that up? Really?

-Con: Obviously. You can tell from his words. Trying to keep on your good side, by getting pittied upon. Etc. Holding off on paying 250dollars that long? Really? it's not like its over a thousand dollars. I work a part time job. And still I can make that much to pay off for the animal and groceries and such in a few weeks(2weeks-3 weeks tops).

This guy. It's like-- he keeps buying more and more animals. Is this guy an animal hoarder? Because the stuff he has. I mean sure people can have alot of pets. but when you can't even pay for yourself-- and you pretty much don't take care of yourself yet your primary concern is the animals wellbeing to that overexxageration is pretty damn funny.

He gets one animal right after the other, then trades. Then gets some more. Then trades. Then gets some more. Then trades again and its a never ending cycle.


I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this-- if I do I truly apologize. But I feel her/his pain. I been ripped off before-- not fun!

 

[Utta]

devils advocate here for the first part of this message: he did state in the "storm/judge" FB post that his "buddy" is buying him one, but that he didn't have money to buy the other.

its either the judge or the storm. and ill end up with both before im dead, but a buddy is buying me one, so the other ill have to buy myself, and i don't have the money for that ****

but boy does he seem to have a lot of "buddies" that buy him rather nice stuff. a free .22? now a free storm/judge? was given leos? id like to know these "buddies" some nice people.

Its over and done with since he got his "taxes back" why couldn't he have paid you with that money instead of buying Mangroves?

Even though there's no evidence for the Nile in that pic being in his possession before October of 2010, it does raise question as to how he FEEDS all these animals if he doesn't have money.

Some rather contradictory remarks regarding the Mangroves from Sean.

The only way I was going to be able to pay Sean is if I get my taxes back before the show. And if I don't I was going to borrow money from my girlfriend.

As for me trying to "purchase" mangroves from sean. My buddy was willing to front me the money to buy a pair to try my hand at breeding them. And If that didnt fall through I had offered sean a 4 ft nile monitor in trade. So I would nt have been spending anything on them were the deal to occur.

dude if you ave me a pair ill buy 2 and throw in a nile monitor for free

so which is it?

seems like hes had MANY chances to pay you back. he just doesn't want to.

 

[amercnwmn]

seems like hes had MANY chances to pay you back. he just doesn't want to.

Yeah that's the way I see it. I've been more than understanding, willing to accept MINIMAL payments or even just a monthly update as to "hey, haven't forgotten you". I'm not perfect, I owe money just like the next person.

 

[RubberDuckey273]

As for me trying to "purchase" mangroves from sean. My buddy was willing to front me the money to buy a pair to try my hand at breeding them. And If that didnt fall through I had offered sean a 4 ft nile monitor in trade. So I would nt have been spending anything on them were the deal to occur.

that stood out to me. if he has a friend that is willing to front him the money to buy other animals, then why couldn't he ask that friend to front him the money to pay you back? too many excuses, and too many "friends" buying him stuff.

if you owe someone money, that is your first priority beyond necessities. he should just straight up tell you he's not going to pay you back, at least then he'd be honest.

hopefully his "friends" in the business will catch wind of this and put pressure on him until he gives the animals back, or coughs up the money he apparently has.

 

[amercnwmn]

Someone asked me why I don't just go and get the snakes myself.
A) it's a 5hr drive from me, so it's not really worth my gas to go up there for just that, B) he's moved, and has made it where I can't contact him directly

I thought if he could get to the KC show, a friend of mine from Tulsa could pick up the snakes from me, but apparently Adam doesn't have a car.

He does still have my N. kaouthia I'd sold him previously, but if what I am told is correct, he's sold the others. I haven't been able to verify that info firsthand.