I had an account on kingsnake last season. I made an effort to post every ad I placed on both sites. In addition, I ran a special for the entire season on hatchlings that was advertised here only. I offered a 10% discount to fauna users for any snake I produced.
Since that special was only advertised here, they had to see it here so I knew they were a user. I did this mainly to draw support to fauna, but it also let me guage where the sales were coming from.
For the entire season I sold one snake with the 10% discount. I produced a fair number of snakes last year from several species, and with the exception of a couple of male balls I was sold out by the end of the year. All but that one snake were sold either directly from my website, or through kingsnake, and I believe my website actually sold the most.
I did sell a few roach orders from fauna, but beyond that nothing was generated.
We've come a long way since then, Clay. Here's a snapshot of the members we had on this site as of April 7, 2003:
Members: 3,562, Threads: 12,228, Posts: 41,339
Most users ever online was 92 on 12-20-2002 at 03:09 AM
Most users ever online on a day was 415 on 01-31-2003.
Compare that with today:
Members: 9,144, Threads: 19,884, Posts: 94,777
Most users ever online was 245 on 02-13-2004 at 04:50 PM.
Most registered users ever online on a day was 1100 on 02-13-2004.
I don't know what percentage of the overall traffic to this site actually views the classifieds. I'd guess the BOI probably has 10 to 1 the views of any other section.
I don't think I can argue with that one, however, since the discussion forums are very lightly traveled, it is logical to assume that the 1 out of 10 people NOT in the BOI are probably in the classifieds sections here. It is rather difficult getting a feel for actual numbers here, since most people tend to browse rather quickly through the classified ads sections scanning for something of interest, while in the BOI they tend to park themselves and actually spend much more time READING the material there. So although you can check the "Who's Online" display periodically, it is just a snapshot of the moment and does not present an audit trail of a viewer's viewing history.
I do think the format is partly responsible. Let me clarify that. I like this format of forums, and anyone with a degree of experience with it most likely prefers it too. The problem is with a site as large as this one it becomes difficult to navigate.
Let's be honest, the fact is that many people using the internet are either too lazy or too (should I say inept?) to figure out a complicated layout. The unfortunate result is to be the most successful you have to cater to the lowest common denominator to a point.
Both buyers and sellers are completely familiar with the layout at k.com. It's overly simplified and completely lacking of the great features of this site, but you can get to most any ad with two mouse clicks. People apparently are willing to accept the more or less archaic design, and lack of additional features in favor of simplicity.
Sellers become more and more familiar with the layout here as they post ads, but sellers alone don't generate sales from those ads. The buyers must be drawn too.
Hmm, from the main forums page, all it takes me is TWO clicks of the mouse and I am at any classifieds ad section that I want to be in. From there I can click on the navigation line to go back a level, then click on the next topic of interest. I'm not inclined to go to ks to compare the click counts, but this doesn't seem much different to me.
As far as catering to the lowest common denominator, I guess I am resistant to that idea, and have been from the start. I would be very hesitant do "dumb down" this site in order to reach that lowest common denominator, which quite honestly from what I have seen is a VERY low number. I'm not sure what I could do about this. I have been trying to come up with a reasonable compromise as to the structure, but there seem to be inherent limitations in everything I try. I suspect that part of the problem is that I have to make allowances for the other animal groups that are here in FaunaClassifieds. Otherwise I would just eliminate one entire level simply by having this an all herptile site. Perhaps my move from HerpWantAds to FaunaClassifieds was not such a wise move to make. Honestly, from the participation I see from the other animal groups here, if I knew what I know now, I never would have done that.
Do I roll back to HerpWantAds and drop the other animal groups entirely? Or do I start up HerpWantAds in parallel, maybe using the format similar to my FaunaArt.com site? Although I can link to exterior sites somewhat, a direct connection using the logon database of this site is probably going to be very unlikely. So I would have to create another completely independent site and then promote it to get traffic there. Do I really want yet another load on my shoulders?
A while back I wrote an email to you on this subject that was more in depth but never sent it. I wasn't sure how it would be taken.
I am always willing to listen to suggestions. However, bear in mind that not everything is possible to do here. You would be amazed at the number of things I have run by my programmer and he had to bring me back down to earth with an assessment of what it would take to accomplish what I wanted to do. vBulletin is a very flexibile piece of software, but it is not infinitely so.
I sell more animals/products via the classifieds over at KS then I do with the Fauna Classifieds, BUT...I get more web traffic via Fauna then anywhere.
The numbers are coming here, but I believe they are not finding the ads here so they leave. Catch-22, obviously. You want the traffic to be here to see your ads, but the traffic wants the ads to be here to see. I am doing my best to do my part to bring the traffic here, but unless YOU do your part by giving those visitors the ads to see, then it is a fruitless effort. People go to a site to see the ads YOU are posting there. The cycle has to begin with the advertisers posting their ads and the people will follow them.
Even if you have duplicate ads running on multiple sites, what is the harm in doing that? A little bit more effort for increased exposure to your ads? Is that an insurmountable effort considering the long term benefits that could result?
I personally believe it to be the setup of the Classifieds here on Fauna, I too like the layout of the "Forums"...but as a prospective buyer/seller, I would much rather view something more of a "Ebay" type listing.
They're easier to navigate and scroll through. Plus as a seller, the "Ebay" type of format is much easier to list, relist, and edit.
Heck, whenever I go to Ebay, I use the search function ONLY for whatever it is I am looking for. Personally, the navigation menus drive me crazy.
So what is it about the Ebay like display you would want here? Thumbnail photos inline? Can you give me some particulars?
I think my programmer could set up something in the profile page for you so you could manage your last x number ads, if that would help.
But editing an ad is hard to do here? Listing is hard to do as well? Not having sold anything on Ebay for a VERY long time, I am not familiar with how it is done over there.
But give me a detailed list of what you want to see here, and I will run it by my programmer to see what is possible.
If you incorporated a style very much like what FaunaAuction was...you'd have much more classifieds advertisers...that would even be willing to pay !
Ugh! I hated the structure on FaunaAuction! Even after I modified it, I still wasn't very happy with the way it looked. Not to mention that it had some off quirks that were difficult to deal with. But even there, what was different about it that you liked? The only information I can think of that was shown was maybe the current bidding price. If you want the price visible in your ad here, why can't you just put that into the topic line? Again, maybe I just don't remember something about it that caught your eye.
Or at the very least....set ALL of the Classifieds to display everything within the last 15 days as a default, there have been quite a number of times when I browsed the classifieds here on Fauna and didnt see anything in that category...I would then have to keep clicking on the "View last 2-3-4-5 days" button til I saw a listing and half the time it discouraged me from listing anything....for the fear that it would eventually just drop down as the days rolled by.
Eh? I have the default for the Classifieds Ads to show ALL ads to a viewed unless they specifically change the default in their own profile. Perhaps you should check your setting in your Edit Options page.
Another nice feature for sellers is the ability to "manage" the ads, I personally at any given time may have 15-20 different items available...its a sore to have to find each one to relist or modify it.
As mentioned above, I believe I can get my programmer to implement something like this if it would help out. Just give me some details I can pass on to him so he can evaluate what would be needed to accomplish that.
I think most traffic here is directed at the BOI and most find it overwhelming when searching the other forums for what they need.To someone without experience in this format im sure they look at the other forums and get the feeling thier search isnt worth the time to find what they need.and just toss thier hands in the air and give up.
Not sure what to do about this. Dumbing down my site is not an attractive option to me, I suppose. Judging from some of the emails I get, I don't think I could make the bar low enough in a lot of cases to make much difference. The "search" function here works VERY well and can be effectively used to zero in on a specific keyword. I felt that putting the classified ads under the Classifieds and Business Section in the Reptiles & Amphibians category would be pretty much self explanatory about what was expected to be found there. If I put ALL of the forums and ad sections on a single page, I would bet big bucks that numerous people would not know enough to scroll down the page to see the rest of them and complain about the length of time it takes just to load that page.
Again, I am open to suggestions.
I am not sure exactly what to do to make it better being the site is known widely for the BOI and i think less known for the classifieds.
Well, I guess maybe it was presumptious of me to assume that people coming to a site called "FaunaClassifieds" might expect to find Classified Ads on here.
but on the other hand,, you can go to the first page of "the other site" and click just on classifieds,,, then go to the section that intrests you,, be it Boas,, Ball pytons,, Beardies etc,,,
I think it is hard for people to find the classifieds here,,
Hmm, I go to the front page of FaunaClassifieds.com, click on the link in the menu listing that says "Classifieds and Business Section", which then takes me to ALL of the forums, in that section, including the classified ad forums. What am I missing here? Two clicks of mouse and you are where you want to be.
Sorry if I appear dense, but I fail to see the difference in the number of clicks or the difficulty getting to the classifieds ads from the main page of this site.
I use the "new posts" feature only on this site, and i check it sometimes a few times a day,, and i check the classifieds that way, but most don't know about the feature,, or if they don't check in here often it is 24 pages of stuff and they just don't look through it all,,,,
Would a link that would limit the display to NEW ADS only help some? Bear in mind, that the front page of this site has a display of the 10 most recent classified ads displayed on it. I can increase that number if needed.
I think a section devoted to classifieds might help with the ability to delete the ads,, change the ads,, and manage the ads like said before,, i mean if you look back there are some really old ads here,, that should have "expired " long ago,,,
As mentioned above, this may be possible to do in the user profile section. Just give me more details about what you want to see in there.
As for the old ads, that's another Catch-22. A low number of ads in any section inhibits people from adding in their own ads. So I am in no hurry to delete the old ones. Since it is a manual process anyway, it is labor intensive for me to do that, and the above mentioned excuse about the power of numbers does influence my finding time to prune the ads out more frequently. But if the numbers are there, then certainly I will prune them back as needed. If the numbers get large enough, I will pay my programmer to come up with an automated method to do this. In the meantime, ANY user at all can select the default age of the messages they view. If they ONLY want to see those ads from the last 30 days, they can easily do that themselves.
So in my view i would like to see a seperate classified section, or even a seperate place the classifieds are all compiled,, it may also help to list them as a seperate site and let them rank on the fauna top sites to see how many real people are looking at the classifeds and then get a real idea of the numbers,,,
At least then you have some real data to work with to see what will drive more people here to use the classifieds,,,,
Sure I can set up something like HerpWantAds and have it a classifieds only site, but what does that do for FaunaClassifieds.com? So I just scrap the domain name and fall back to HerpWantAds.com and drop the other animal groups completely? Certainly that wouldn't break my heart much, but there is a lot of time and effort put into the FaunaClassifieds name right now. Do I really want to just throw that away?
When I joined this site, it was primarily targeted towards the more serious hobbyist/business in the industry. You've changed the focus of that and greatly increased the traffic from the general public.
Yes, that is true. Another case of my letting public requests go to my head and trying to comply with their wishes, I guess.
I should break myself from that habit.
Critical mass. The ugly Catch 22. You need more advertisers to increase the variety in the classifieds. You need more buyers to attract the advertisers. Takes time for this to happen.
I think I have been successful getting people to this site. I believe it has reached critical mass where new users are signing on at a rate that is only limited by the total number of people in this field. I ran ads with Overture for a while, and experimented with turning on and off the hit spigot. What I discovered is that when the spigot was turned off, I lost a small amount of visiting traffic, but it had NO effect on new registrations at all. So I just turned off the spigot (got to be expensive) and new registrations are just chugging right along.
I believe I am doing my part to resolve the Catch-22 dilemma here. But unless and until advertisers put their ads in the classifieds section, I can do no more than I am. If you all don't place your ads here, then eventually these people I have brought here will just stop looking for them. The ads you place here don't cost you a dime and don't eat anything while they are here. If you get ONE sale from an ad, would it be worth the effort of placing it here? How many times have you heard someone say "No, I have never dealt with that company, but I see their ads EVERYWHERE."? What is that telling you?
One recommendation would be a link in the various discussion forums (I know you have that already on the right hand side). Make it one of your "sticky" posts that will stay on the top of the discussion forum. You have a captive audience for that interest right there, make it easier to drive them to the classifieds. We've discussed advertising before and some customers need the "2X4" to the head type of display, especially web based customers.
Do you really think that would help any? I don't feel that the traffic to the discussion forums is really of any consequence at all, so would that really help direct them to the classified ads? If they can't see the highlighted link I already have on the discussion forum page, will a highlighted sticky link in the forum do much better? Heck, I'm willing to give it a try, and I guess the view counter will tell me whether it is working or not.
I've run ads on here that have out performed KS. Just to give you a ray of light at the end of the tunnel.
It just seems like such a LONG tunnel sometimes. But heck, we've nearly tripled registered members in the last year and it doesn't look like it is slowing down at all. We have gotten 5,000 to 6,000 people (actually unique IP addresses) visiting here every day. I just need your help giving all these people something worth coming back here for. There are over 9,000 registered members, but we only get about 800 or so to stop in each day. Why aren't the rest of them stopping in at least once a day to check out what is new here? Why are we getting nearly 5,200 NON registered people coming here each day and what are they doing while they are here? They can't be going to the BOI, so just what are they looking at? My guess is they are coming in, taking a peek at the classifieds sections, then not finding anything new, don't bother logging in and just go on their way.
Isn't the possibility of nearly 6,000 potential customers worth the effort of placing those ads here?
