Another disillisioned past contributor

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Well, here is another disillusioned post. I know, you see them all the time. Big surprise that here is yet another one; but here it is ~ I’m angry and just want to speak my mind~

I got up this morning and found an email informing me “You are banned”.

Good morning! After 4 years of support for this site, both verbal and financial (requested AND un-requested), you made ONE nasty comment yesterday and went from zero warnings to BANNED overnight. Thanks, don’t reply to this e-mail and NO you may not read the rules to see if the one nasty comment was a big enough offense to get you banned~ you can’t even review the rules if your banned until you pay the fine.

That’s not what the e-mail said~ but that was the gist of it.

Gee I wonder why all the oldtimers seem to be gone from Fauna??

I paid my fine. I then had access to read the rules (which have changed MULTIPLE times in the 4 years I’ve supported this site) and apparently calling someone a name is an immediate banning offense.

Okay.

I called the name, and I paid the fine. We’re square. But I’m still angry, I still feel BANNING me was unfair. It is in the latest form of the rules you have written, so I owed $10.

I won’t be “donating” money any longer however. Find a reason to BAN and FINE me if this site needs financial support in the future.

I can’t seem to find what the MINUMUM “Membership level” is to post advertisements in the classifieds. Could some please direct me so I know how much I must contribute when my current membership expires? I only pay the MINUMUM amount to advertise at KS, and at least they have never BANNED me.

Sour grapes. I know. I’m feeling pretty SOUR after my morning email. (oh, AND my "Karma" went to zero points~ more sour grapes.)

Thank you,
Have a nice day~

 

[WebSlave]

Ok Cheryl, then please tell me what criteria should I have used to exempt you from the rules and my attempts to clean up the nastiness so many people have complained about on this site.

Should it be (1) That you have been a member for 4 years? or (2) That you are a paid membership contributor here? or (3) Some other reason I am not immediately aware of?

Sorry, I am not going to play favorites for members who have been here the longest, and nor am I going to give special privileges and exemptions for people because they are paid contributors. Yeah, how would that look. You can just guy your way out of having to follow the rules over on FaunaClassifieds.....

Or is that what you people want? You want me to enforce the rules on a sliding scale of monetary value? You want me to have a protected class of people on this site based on whether they have paid a fee or not? Well that is fine with me, if that is what you really want here. I sometimes think maybe I should play "grab the money and run" instead of trying to be fair and even handed, so go ahead make my day and tell me that is what you really want. The fines and suspensions are because just the light slap on the wrist wasn't working. I had one guy with over 150 warning points, for crying out loud! And others not too far behind.

Yeah everyone wants me to clean up this place and get tough with the rules just so long as it only applies to the "other guy". You're mad? Well I'm pretty pissed myself that people can't act like decent human beings towards each other without the darn name calling and waste the time out of my life having to deal with crap like this.

As for the classifieds section, no there is no minimum paid membership required to post ads there. But thanks for giving me incentive to more strongly consider doing just that.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Nope~ I’m not suggesting any special treatment at all. I’ve never asked for special treatment, and if you review our very FEW past communications you will see I am not in the habit of posting or e-mailing with every little petty issue I come across.

I think it was unfair to BAN me as my very first warning.

I was insulted and upset when I saw that, and I still am.

Once I paid the fine and could see the rules (which I could not review while banned) I was able to see that whenever you made your latest changes to the rules, what I thought was a minor offense had become a major BANNING offense. My bad, I should have read EVERY iteration of the rules that have come out in the last several years……I know. But obviously I did not.

That doesn’t change that I am angry and insulted at having been BANNED on my only offense. I’ve never been BANNED from a site before. I’ve been WARNED~ but that’s a little different isn’t it?

Things here have changed. I knew they were changing~ I didn’t complain. I guess I should have, but like I pointed out, I’m not in the habit of whining and complaining about every little issue. My fault if I don’t like it.

But I don’t like it~ and I felt the need to point that out.

Thanks for your time.

 

[WebSlave]

Besides updating the rules as needed in at least two different places (top thread in the BOI and in the FAQ section), I also sent out a general broadcast message to all registered members indicating the changes that have been taking place here (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74229). If that is not sufficient for me to get the point across, then please tell me what exactly is needed to do so.

For the record, here is the post that got you fined and suspended:

And it took you longer to type out that you don't have time to make the refund~ than it would have taken to make the refund.

You've gone from being a little petty when you felt insulted ~ to just being a petty, nasty, little jack***.

Your hurting your own rep much more than hers.

So tell me, Cheryl, did you make that post KNOWING that it was a violation of the rules, but you felt that the minor and inconsequential warning point it may have gotten you was worth it? And you are faulting ME because I made the penalty much stricter exactly because I want to END that sort of stuff here? Puhleeze.... The traffic cops don't tell you that the speeding ticket fines have increased, do they? So they pull you over and they are expected to let you go, because you didn't know about the stiffer fine? Again, puhleeze...

This is the kind of crap I am trying to get out of this site and keep it out. If you think this is appropriate for you to do on this site, then perhaps you are just making a mistake in judgement.

As for you previous comment:

Gee I wonder why all the oldtimers seem to be gone from Fauna??

If those "oldtimers" are leaving because the circus they preferred is no longer here, then good riddance to them. And yes you may very well be right that this was the only reason they hung around here in the first place. If that is the case, then I REALLY don't care that they are gone. And if anyone does not prefer that I have this site run in a more respectable and professional manner, I do hope they can find the door without any assistance. I've stated it before and I will state it again: the crap that used to infest this site on a daily basis is over with. The people I prefer to remain on this site will agree with me on this. The others are entirely welcome to go elsewhere, (ex)paying contributors or not. I value MY reputation one hell of a lot more then the few dollars that you may throw my way.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Actually~ NO I did not make that post thinking “Gee, this will get me a warning point or two…..oh goody!” Look at my past behavior, it speaks for itself. I made that post without really thinking.

Kind of like when I’m driving and sometimes I find I am speeding. I wasn’t thinking “I’m going to speed and see if I can get pulled over today.” I just wasn’t thinking about the speed issue. And when a cop pulls me over (last time was 18 years ago) but when he pulled me over he didn’t tell me I was BANNED from driving. He wrote me a ticket and asked me to pay it, I did and life went on.

If you had “pulled me over”~ issued me a warning or even a suspension and asked me to “pay a fine” I probably would not have liked it……but that would be too bad. This is too bad too. I know. That’s why I paid the fine. My problem really is the word BANNED. I didn’t get up and find an e-mail telling me “Your fined” or “Your warned” or “Your suspended”~ I got an e-mail that said “You are BANNED.” I was shocked and wanted to review the rules to see if I had done something to warrant being BANNED~ but I could not get access to the rules without paying the fine. And once I paid my fine my “karma” was at ZERO to top it off. I see it no longer is~ I have no idea why you changed that. If my calling a name was bad enough to take away the evidence of 4 years of contributing to this site~ then you should just go ahead and do that.

Like I said. I know it’s sour grapes. I’m feeling very SOUR over the entire situation myself. It’s just a word. BANNED. But I was BANNED over just a word wasn’t I?

And I suppose if the rules have changed enough that ONE infraction makes me “part of the problem” rather than a contributing member~ then it’s best that we both know what page we are on now doesn’t it?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Griz]

Cheryl, welcome to the first warning, now banned club.

I endured the EXACT same thing you are now going through. Frustrating? Yup, it sure is but it's also understandable. My mistake was calling someone an idiot. Your comment was a bit more, ahem.....direct, shall we say? Either way, the proverbial Fauna pot was starting to boil over and Rich had to do something to stop it. Trust me, lesson learned on this end and I am sure on yours as well.

Griz

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

One more thing as I sit here stewing over this. WHERE do you come up with I asked for special treatment ANYWHERE or ANYHOW? Did I write you this morning whining that it was unfair and you should reconsider? NO. I paid the fine and came to the forum you set up to for “Feedback” to politely give my “Feedback” on the situation. I NEVER implied in ANY of my postings that I DID NOT break one of the rules. I admitted that upfront ~ and I paid the fine.

And Bob~ I’m learning a lesson all right, but I’m not sure it’s the one I was SUPPOSED to get. Or maybe it was~ as apparently I am part of the

“crap I am trying to get out of this site” ~Quote from Webslave (I don't know how to do the quote thingy)

 

[ms_terese]

At least your karma is on the mend, Cheryl.

Don't worry about it, and don't take it personally. Unless something can be adopted in which positive points can be added to balance out any "warning" or negative points, the warning system is not really going to be an accurate measuring stick for anyone's value to this website.

I know you were just venting, and I don't see anything wrong with that. You're obviously not the only person who feels the situation is a little harsh. However, when it was addressed in another thread, Webslave made it clear that this harsh treatment was having the desired result. So don't sweat it.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74420

 

[WebSlave]

Well, "banned" is a term that the programmer chose in the email, which I admit might be a bit strong. I will ask him to change that wording. But regardless, the fact of the matter is that you were blocked from this site until you paid the fine. How could I do it any differently? Let you access everything normally in the meantime? How many people would pay the fine under those circumstances?

Let's analyze this quote of yours:

Kind of like when I’m driving and sometimes I find I am speeding. I wasn’t thinking “I’m going to speed and see if I can get pulled over today.” I just wasn’t thinking about the speed issue. And when a cop pulls me over (last time was 18 years ago) but when he pulled me over he didn’t tell me I was BANNED from driving. He wrote me a ticket and asked me to pay it, I did and life went on.

No he didn't take away your license. But what would have happened if you had NOT paid the ticket? Yeah, some people do just that. And yes, if I did not collect the fine up front, what sort of incentive could I use to get people to pay the fine if there was no loss to them not to do so?

And yes, I do believe you are asking for preferential treatment. Why else did you start this thread in the first place? What purpose did you want it to serve?

So tell me Cheryl, out of the 25,663 members now registered on this site, why should I treat you differently from the other 25,662 members? Why should I make an exception for you when everyone else is expected to behave in socially acceptable mannerisms that I have requested and now demand from people in order to participate here? How long have you been on this site and had every opportunity to stay abreast of the rules and participate in any changes I have made public and requested input for?

Here's a poll I started recently that is pertinent to this discussion:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74420

Where is your input, Cheryl? Barring that WHAT EXACTLY is the poll telling me about how I am now enforcing these rules?

 

[shrap]

Cheryl,

I know this is going to come as a shock to Rich, but I actually agree with him 100% on this one.

You broke the current rules and you got the penalty for doing so. Just like everyone else on this site would have. Your initial post does sound like, to me anyway, that you feel that the rules should not have been applied to you. You may not have meant it that way, but it does come across that way.

And you are not banned in the literal sense or you would not be posting here now. It was a suspension pending the payment of the fine. Nothing more. Granted the email was worded poorly and should be changed. But that little bit of miscommunication is now cleared up.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

I noticed that poll just this morning~ and after making this posting I didn’t feel adding my input to the poll was appropriate. Why didn’t I see the poll before? Probably for the same reason I did not read the latest, newest edition of the rules again~ I was busy. Another straight A semester at college thank you very much! I’ve not posted or read much at all in the last couple months.

As far as your belief that I want “special treatment”~ exactly what is the Feedback forum for~ if not to provide feedback? I never asked you not to fine me, I never asked you for my money back. I never asked you to make an exception for me.

I posted my feedback on the situation. I’m not happy with the situation. I feel that I was treated badly. I feel that BANNING someone for the first offense is extreme. I feel like if you’re going to BAN me for a rule violation I should be allowed to read the rules I violated (Not the whole bloody site, the RULES). I feel that after I posted my displeasure with the situation you have then treated me unfairly by stating that I asked for any “Special treatment.” I feel like you have been nasty by implying that I am part of the “CRAP” you’re trying to get rid of. I feel unwelcome and unappreciated for the contributions (not just financial) I’ve made to this site.

I’m angry and getting angrier by the moment. If I post negative feedback I am requesting special consideration??? Is there another rule I missed that states we can not post feedback in the feedback forum unless it is positive feedback? Or only if we have read every word in every post on this site?

I wasn’t asking for “Special consideration”~ I was venting my anger over what I feel was an inappropriately harsh reaction to my ONE rule violation.

That’s my feedback. It’s a feedback forum~

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Shrap~ the e-mail I got this morning said I was BANNED. Yes, I am angry over it. I know~ It's just a WORD~ but I was BANNED over just a WORD too. And you must understand that once I paid my fine and looked at my account~ my "Karma" which used to be "Rep Power" was ZERO. That "Karma" reflects my contributions to the site as a whole for the 4 years~ so yes~ when I posted this morning I did feel that I had been well and truly BANNED. Afterall~ thats what they e-mail I have says. I have no idea why Rich decided to give back the Karma points~ sometime during the time that he was calling part of the CRAP he wants to get rid of~ but it has since changed.

 

[shrap]

Cheryl,

I am fully aware that the email did say banned.... but we both know NOW that it did not mean banned. It meant suspended pending payment of a fine. I think that has been cleared up now as a poorly worded form email that Rich is going to look into changing. No point getting bent over it when it was nothing more than a miscommunication that has been addressed.

Yeah he zapped my "points" once or twice too without ever issuing a warning point, explanation or email..... and I did not care one bit. "Points" do not define who I am as a person or what my contributions are to my fellow herpers. Because that is not why I am here. Not for Rich, not this site and certainly not for some "points". I am here for my fellow herpers. To help them and to teach them and get help from them and to learn from them. Everything else is just ego, status and politics and I don't want any of that.

I admit that it is nice to be acknowledged by my peers and the points are a way of doing it, but the more important way is through the friendships that have developed and grown through fauna. That is the biggest acknowledgment I could ever ask for.

 

[WebSlave]

Cheryl,

No I am not going to take the time to explain to you why your initial post comes across the way it does. You can read it yourself when you are in a less negative mood and see for yourself. Even the title "past contributor" says volumes in implications. I mean WHY did (and are) you bringing up the fact of your contributions unless you think it means that some sort of special consideration should be attached to it? You think it is unfair, don't you? Well that has implications as well, now doesn't it? How can you think it unfair if you were treated exactly as anyone else would have, under the circumstances?

As for reading the rules, I think it wise for everyone to read them BEFORE getting in trouble with them. Not afterwards. I have no other choice but to assume that everyone has read the rules and that is the way I need to treat anything that is deemed to be a violation. Speaking of which, you DID get that broadcast email, didn't you? If so, didn't you bother to READ it? I sure hate to think I wasted my time sending out that notice..........

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

The reason I brought up the financial contributions was in the paragraph I meant to read as what I was "Hearing" when I read the BANNED email. And yes, the word BANNED was the initial problem.

Your were right. I was wrong. I still don't like the way I was treated. If that’s the way your treating everyone~ well I guess that explains a few of the notes I've gotten today, and why it seems like every time I come to this site I see another post with someone complaining.

Oh well, life goes on. We both have better things to do than bicker about this. My intent with my initial posting was to point out that the way that was done "You are Banned" was nasty and alienating your long time participant. But it sounds like that was your intent~ to get rid of the "Crap."

I wonder why that bothers me? Oh, I know why~ I didn’t realize that was me. Sorry~ my mistake again.

 

[WebSlave]

Your were right. I was wrong. I still don't like the way I was treated. If that’s the way your treating everyone~ well I guess that explains a few of the notes I've gotten today, and why it seems like every time I come to this site I see another post with someone complaining.

Yes, exactly. Apparently some people don't realize that what they are doing on this site is just not acceptable on a publicly accessible message board. At least not this one. Silly me for bringing them to task for it. Honestly, I am seriously thinking of renaming "The Warning System" to "The Whine Maker System". Because that is certainly what it generates. Yes you were wrong. You violated one of the rules I was specifically cracking down on. The fact that you didn't bother to keep abreast of the stricter enforcement of the rules is irrelevant. The rules are there for everyone to read. Further, you were sent an email explaining this more stringent enforcement, which you either never bothered to read, or else read and apparently felt it didn't apply to you. And yet you are still telling yourself that this is all my fault and I am the big meany because I should have treated you differently because you have been a member here since 2002, and are somehow "gold plated" because even though you never bothered to read the rules, you haven't run afoul of them.

But yet you think it is perfectly acceptable here to say something like this to another member:

You've gone from being a little petty when you felt insulted ~ to just being a petty, nasty, little jack***.

What amazes me is that if that is typically the way you post, that you have not gotten warning points in the past. Or that you can post that way and think that this is acceptable here.

Well, you know, that's fine with me. I am going to get people pissed at me no matter what I do. But if the choice is between getting people pissed at me because I allowed this site to become a cesspool where antagonism and nastiness are the rule, or people getting pissed at me because I will not allow them to speak to or about other members in the manner in which YOU got fined and suspended for, guess which one I am choosing?

OK Cheryl, you've said your piece and inferred that the only reason you paid the fine was so you could read the rules, inferring that you didn't remember the derogatory slur you made towards another member, and couldn't imagine why the fine and suspension (or "ban" as the email stated) should apply to you. Now that you have done so, and we have had this discussion which has apparently opened up your eyes to the reality of how I am running this site, which you obviously do not care for, if you would like I will refund that $10 fine to you and put you back on the suspension list. You can make it permanent at your own discretion. If the way I now insist that you behave here is not to your liking then we can now part company. Your call.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Oh absolutly not. Keep the $10. I was wrong. I'm a bad, bad, bad person. My prior behavior SOOOOO reflects that. I get it, I'm the "crap" you wanted out. Very enlightening thread.

Keep the $10. The lesson was worth it.

Thanks for your time.
Have a nice day.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh absolutly not. Keep the $10. I was wrong. I'm a bad, bad, bad person. My prior behavior SOOOOO reflects that. I get it, I'm the "crap" you wanted out. Very enlightening thread.

Keep the $10. The lesson was worth it.

Thanks for your time.
Have a nice day.

If you wish to continue to post in the manner in which you did when you got the fine and suspension, yes, then you are correct. Sorry that you see the need to refer to yourself personally in that manner, but that is your choice of wording, not mine.

And you have a nice day as well, Cheryl.

 

[ms_terese]

I think I'm going to host a "Business Communication 101" course...anybody wanna sign up?

What also needs to be said here, Cheryl, is that you've shown yourself to be a valuable member of this community. You're one of the good guys, and there aren't nearly enough of those. You're helpful to newbies when you can be and you have a great passion for your animals. The fact that you used a word that broke the rules doesn't change any of that.

Yes, you're free to move on (as is EVERYONE, and EVERYONE knows it because it's mentioned ALL THE TIME), but you're also welcome to stay and continue to be part of the group.

Somehow, I think you might not have gotten that entire message, so I just wanted to clarify.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Cheryl,
I understand why you are upset and I think it has more to do with you not knowing how automated the system is now. You may have believed that Rich decided to give you an excess of warning points, then typed out that email and then banned you from this site. When in actuality, there is no leeway now in the warning points and once you are issued a warning for name calling everything is automated after that point. The warning points for that infraction are preset at ten points, When it is issued the system automatically suspends the user. It automatically generates the email and I believe also automatically removes your karma rating. If I am wrong, I am sure Rich will correct me.

Heck, I don’t even think Rich may know about a suspension if a moderator gave you the warning points, it would automatically set the system in motion with the same result.