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Another Thorn for the Herp Community - Illegal Venomous Reptile Shipping

Oh also Earl....I wasn't laughing "at" you, I was laughing "with" you. That was some quick thinking. I probably would have just passed out on the spot. Good thing you look back at it now.

Iguana raspicaudalis earlturneri

LOL!
 
SPZOOLOGICAL said:
Another idea is establishing an effective deterrent. I also want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and it seems like a hardass approach, but should we allow a second chance for first time offenders? I'm curious about this because appropriate and legal methods of transport is one of the first thing every venomous enthusiast learns. Is it unrealistic to assume that when someone gets popped that the word will travel fast that "it's not something to do."? The approach seems harsh, but so are accidental injuries. Again, this is just another way of looking at it.

Sean P.

It does travel pretty fast if determined individuals pursue. Look what happen to Pete and Adam. We followed the scum to four boards.

Pete had to take all his sponsors off his site. Everyone I think knows the character of both now because they were pursued.

They will probably not be arrested are charged with anything but the public was made aware of them which hopefully will deter them from illegally shipping hots.

Now, all you have to do is search for both names on-line and you will be brought to this forum. I think this is great self-policing and works.

Pete and Adam know that authorities might be watching them, a wonderful deterrent to doing anything illegal.
 
Dennis Hultman said:
It does travel pretty fast if determined individuals pursue. Look what happen to Pete and Adam. We followed the scum to four boards.

Pete had to take all his sponsors off his site. Everyone I think knows the character of both now because they were pursued.

They will probably not be arrested are charged with anything but the public was made aware of them which hopefully will deter them from illegally shipping hots.

Now, all you have to do is search for both names on-line and you will be brought to this forum. I think this is great self-policing and works.

Pete and Adam know that authorities might be watching them, a wonderful deterrent to doing anything illegal.

Good example, however, look at serpentboy78, when Dan accused him of sending the Coral illegally, Mike's word was that Dan "talked" him through shipping (how to do it, not that big a deal etc) it by that method, everyone seemed to gloss over it. Now we have at least one other person who stated that he actually paid the $80 charge to have items shipped via Delta, and Mike shipped it via ground and then calls and says, you should be receiving your package today, and it comes ground. Something like 6 Agkistrodon and 5 Crotalus, he even tapped the Crotulus' rattles, and apparently is going so far as to use alias', it's obvious that a pattern is developing.

Of course as the receiver how do you do anything about it, when we have people posting that the reason it happens is because people are willing to receive the packages illegally, even though in this case it is apparently a 100% innocent victim. Does he refuse the package? Given Mike's history, I bet that person would have been out all his money and the snakes. Do you report it, and possibly implicate yourself?

Another thing that seems kind of off balance, is your above example, one allegedly "ignorant" violation, of shipping a C. cerastes and we go after the offender with a vengence, granted it was Pete's Pride, Stupidity, Lying, etc, that caused it to turn into a feeding frenzy that enveloped several other sites, but here we have someone who is doing it with no care in the world, and knows he is doing it illegally, and nobody seems to be going after him, or if anybody is, it seems a lot more "soft handed" even though the violations are a lot more egregious. Why no "determined individuals pursuing"?

John
 
Dates of shipping

It was 5 years ago prior to Ripa's singing with cocktail lounge bands----check out the Dean Ripas Website--apparently, he is it in the music industry. I have never before nor after, received such an illegally mispacked and labeled shipment. I sincerely hope this never happens to anyone else as it not only places the cargo handlers, the Delta cargo personel, and also the buyer in DANGER but also the ENTIRE membership of herpetologists and herpetoculturalists of this wonderful science and hobby. All it would take is a severe bite to occur to a person involved in the shipping and all HELL would break lose----imagine, no more shipping----THINK ABOUT IT--Earl Turner
 
In all the dealings I have had in the last few years with Dean Ripa, he has not done anything like what Mr. Turner is describing. In fact he impressed me as a serious and responsible herpetoculturist maintaining a well above average standard of husbandry including veterinary care.

Perhaps he changed his ways substantially before I met him. I would hesitate to condemn him in the present for an incident some years in the past, based on my more recent experiences with him. Though I agree that if the incident happened as described, it was a remarkably irresponsible act that should not be repeated.
 
Of course as the receiver how do you do anything about it, when we have people posting that the reason it happens is because people are willing to receive the packages illegally, even though in this case it is apparently a 100% innocent victim. Does he refuse the package? Given Mike's history, I bet that person would have been out all his money and the snakes. Do you report it, and possibly implicate yourself?

Those are good questions John. If you report it, you are guilty as well. If you refuse it, you are out of your money, and the snakes might not make it through a return trip.

In this last case you may be able to refuse, and once it's returned report the non-delivery of goods. The seller would have no argument whatsoever (he would be incriminating himself) to explain why he did not deliver the animals you paid for. The buyer's explanation would be simple, he was waiting a package through the airlines as agreed (hopefully in writing through the e-mail exchange).

One other option the buyer has is to first check that the seller can ship through airlines. Second, send the money only for the snake, with shipment to be paid at the airline counter once the package arrives. I have done that in the past via Northwest and it worked just fine. The shipper has no monetary gains by going the cheaper route. The only problem is that he might do it anyways because of the convenience of not having to go to the airport, having to prepare a wooden box, not being a certified shipper, etc.

Any comments?
 
In time we had put together protocols for safe trades, minimize chances of being scammed, etc. The more I think about it the more I believe we can come up with a protocol that would safeguard the buyer from illegal shipping of hots. Does anyone have friends in the USPS and UPS to whom we could ask these questions?

Regards.
 
Time changes and so do people

Ms Aunty venom, I sincerely hope that he has changed his mode of shipping and that he does things legally....I personally do not care about his personal life....what I stated---did happen and as I previously mentioned, I hope that this method of irresponsible shipping never again repeats itself.I too breed two species of Bushmasters on a regular basis--our offspring are packed inside two wooden boxes with metal corners and bands; each specimen is placed in two sacks and both the correct number , common and latin (scientific ) name are included on the label for all to see--especially the carrier. We shipped 18 neonates last year and hopefully will be shipping more this year as we are working with a larger number of adults----stenophrys and melanocephala. Have a nice evening, Earl H. Turner :wavey:
 
snakegetters said:
In all the dealings I have had in the last few years with Dean Ripa, he has not done anything like what Mr. Turner is describing. In fact he impressed me as a serious and responsible herpetoculturist maintaining a well above average standard of husbandry including veterinary care.

Perhaps he changed his ways substantially before I met him. I would hesitate to condemn him in the present for an incident some years in the past, based on my more recent experiences with him. Though I agree that if the incident happened as described, it was a remarkably irresponsible act that should not be repeated.

I find this interesting. I wouldn't condemn him either. He has done alot herpetology and herpetoculture, but I think he needs to practice sound shipping methods all the time....especially w/ his respected reputation. I shipped him two bushmasters recently out of Detroit. I never talked to Dean Ripa, but the person I was shipping for said he was asked by Dean to label the box "Harmless Reptiles". I declined. I also didnt appreciate being asked either. Arrangements were made and the box was sent correctly.

alvaro said:
The more I think about it the more I believe we can come up with a protocol that would safeguard the buyer from illegal shipping of hots.

What about posting a WARNING message on the major classified websites alerting buyers to this illegal practice, and informing them of the potential penalties involved? Maybe we can get a deal since it's for the community as a whole. It also gives us a blank check to kick some ass when someone like Mike gets busted. Another idea.

Sean
 
Shipping ----whaaaaaaa!?

Antivenom lady--call Bill Lamar of Tyler,Texas or Jonathan Campbell of UT Arlington,Texas ( they are the authors of many excellent publications and are professors @ the Univ.of Texas @ Arlington, Texas)---ask them about Dean Ripa ; call Dr. Nathan Gale--former Director of L.A. Zoo and founder of the Panama Zoological Gardens--ask about Dean Ripa....contact the Indonesian Dept of Fauna---ask them about Dean Ripa....You are in for a very big surprise----oh, and last but not least--contact Alejandro Solorozano of the San Jose (Costa Rica) Serpentarium and the author of a brand new book--The Reptiles of Costa Rica.....ask about Dean Ripa-----yep,you are in for a surprise---- :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: E.Turner
 
Earl Turner's fabrication and slander

Let’s talk about the real reason for Earl Turner’s fabrication about Dean Ripa. In the mid 1990s, Earl Turner began interviewing Dean Ripa for an article he proposed to write on reproducing bushmasters. Earl phone-interviewed Dean Ripa for about two months, pumping him for information about how he bred bushmasters, on the pretext of writing an article in which Dean would be credited as a personal communication. When the article finally appeared in Reptiles Magazine, there was no mention of Dean at all!
And yet Dean was the primary source of the information!
Earl signed the article as his own, stealing the information Dean had freely given him as though he had generated it himself.
The rightly angered Dean Ripa wrote Reptiles editor, Phillip Samuelson, accusing Earl Turner of plagiarism. Randal Berry also wrote Samuelson letters to protest Earl’s plagiarism. Samuelson, having a strong sense of right, published Dean Ripa’s page-long letter in Reptiles refuting Turner’s claim for the whole world to see. Now Turner was caught with his pants down. He got very mad indeed – and, in fact, went mad, ravenous for revenge against Dean Ripa.
To get this revenge, Turner began a smear campaign against Dean Ripa. Significantly, he began attacking Randal Berry as well in much the same fashion, generating as many false stories as his furtive (I will not say fertile) imagination could come up with.
Probably Earl thought that by smearing these people it would get his “good name” back. Unfortunately, it was too late for the name “Earl Turner.” Earl had already destroyed his name from having offended so many other people (e.g., Gladys Porter Zoo director Pat Burchfield, curator Colette Adams, to name a few) and cheated so many collectors in spurious reptile deals (his isolated residence in South Texas gave him a certain immunity from his victim’s reprisals) that even to mention the name “Earl Turner” was to provoke gasps or sniggers among serious professionals. Only novices in the reptile game would now take Earl Turner seriously – that is, young people he could influence with his big stories and then later take to the cleaners. A pathological liar and inventor of tales, the truth was simply not in Earl Turner. This fact was complicated by his drinking problem where he was prone to get on the telephone (or Internet) and invent wild stories about himself and his reptile collection. Some of these stories, by the way, are quite memorable. Earl’s legendary “bushmaster bite” in the mountains of Costa Rica while he was hunting snakes with Pat Burchfield. (Note: Pat Burchfield has never been to Costa Rica with Earl Turner; Pat Burchfield, pers. comm.). Earl’s breedings of rare tortoises which he publicized in newspapers, despite the fact that the tortoises were really bred at Gladys Porter Zoo, to which Earl had merely loaned the specimens and then claimed his share of the progeny (pers. comm. Collete Adams, Curator). Earl passes himself off as a breeder of rare wildlife in order to get in the spotlight – even if it means stealing somebody else’s spotlight. The list of Earl’s fabrications are enormous and do not bear recounting here. Indeed, Earl generates new fabrications with each new drink he takes.
Now let’s look at Earl’s bizarre accusation about Dean Ripa. Does anybody seriously believe that our paranoid airlines companies would accept even harmless snakes packed in a flimsy banana crate? Does anybody seriously believe that a breeder would send an animal costing roughly $2000 dollars, that he has lovingly cared for right out of the egg, raised to adulthood with state-of-the-art technology, and then turn around and ship that expensive animal in a carton so fragile that it would be crushed to death during shipping, and subject to every draft of cold, with the animal arriving with pneumonia as a result? Earl is right about one thing, the snake Dean sent was inside a banana crate – packed inside a heavy outer plywood container that was also lined with Styrofoam! In short, the banana box was one of three inner containers, including the bag, exactly to Delta’s requirements. Earl’s not too clever sophistry was to leave that part out so as to win sympathy for one of his typically insane stories. Nobody loves attention so much as a man who cannot tell the truth.
Next, let’s mention the purported length of the snake that Turner says was in the banana box. He says this snake was 7 ft long. While things are bigger in Texas as we all know, this specimen was only 5 ft long when it left by Delta Dash from North Carolina. That is the length of the animal as recorded on the feeding cards as of that date, which, as Dean’s assistant and bookkeeper, I have right in front of me as I write. For a snake to have increased by a length of 24 inches on a four hour air-flight seems odd, but then again, it was to Texas. But Turner’s memory is also hazy on other matters, for there were two snakes, not one, on that shipment – I have the receipts on file. They were both siblings and of approximately the same size. The banana crate, which had a divider, was to keep the snakes from piling up on each other, segregating the main outer plywood box.
Further, when Earl resold these animals he told the buyers they were pure blooded Lachesis melanocephala. They were in fact hybridized L. stenophrys x melanocephala which at that time Dean was selling for $1850. Dean’s price for the pure L. melanocephala was $2500, and Earl did not want to pay that much – so he bought the cheaper hybrids. Earl lied to his customers in order to resell these hybrids at a higher price, and/or to encourage their quick sale through making the buyer feel he was “getting a deal.” To sell them, Earl Turner ran an ad in kingsnake.com classified. The photos he posted, which I saw and saved to disk, speak for themselves. They were the very hybrids Dean sold him. As Dean’s bookkeeper, I have the receipts here to prove it, and Earl Turner’s own handwriting on his order, which accompanied his check. Earl’s handwritten order explicitly requests the less expensive, crossbred snakes, L. stenophrys x melanocephala. Earl, knowing these specimens had a blackish head color, schemed to fool his buyers into paying more for them, which meant a bigger profit.
Earl’s desire for revenge for Dean’s letter to Reptiles Magazine does not stop there. Now he adds a list of names of people you are supposed to be able to contact that will verify his story. He knows that no one will bother to do this, but that it will give his story more credence to have “back-ups.” In fact, the pathologically unsound Turner has made a mistake, for if actually contacted these people have nothing particularly good or bad to say about Dean personally. The majority of them have never even met him or dealt with him! Only one, Nate Gale, has had any business dealings with Dean and they remain quite good friends. Even the Panamanian address Earl gives for Nate Gale is spurious, Dr. Gale having lived in Florida since before 1999 – a fact Earl might want to recognize if he knows so much about Dr. Gale’s opinions! Earl Turner would do better to let these people speak for themselves before he self-elects himself as their personal slander monger. They might not like being brought into such nonsense. The question remains: If all these people so seriously dislike Dean Ripa as Earl Turner proclaims, it has not stopped them from citing him extensively in their books and papers (e.g., Bill Lamar, Venomous Reptiles of the Western Hemisphere; Alejandro Solorzano, Snakes of Costa Rica, etc).
Such is the mask of Earl Turner. Dean Ripa has let Earl’s ridiculous accusation stand all these years, knowing full well that by dent of Earl’s having said it, it was already garbage to serious professionals, and was not worth responding to. Unfortunately, there are many new kids in this business since Dean’s heyday, and some, not yet having had “the Earl Turner experience,” might be tempted to believe the psychologically “bent” things that bitter Earl Turner says when he is up late at night bragging and scandal mucking on his computer after having had ten drinks too many.
Moral – be careful whom you offend! You just might become the victim of an alcoholic egotist who will do or say anything to appease his shattered self-esteem. – Regina Ripa, wife of Dean Ripa.
 
High Five for Earl Turner

I've been biting my tongue and while I don't know Dean or his wife, Regina, personally, I will only comment on my friendship with Earl and knowing him as a colleague over the years. His generosity as allowed me to build a world class collection and money has never once been an issue; in fact, most of the specimens we received were donated to us for which I am eternally indebted for his generosity. I've had the opportunity to visit his home and see his collection...I'll tell you...you will not see a better privately maintained collection anywhere - I'm just blown away. His wife is absolutely wonderful and they make a great team in giving all of their animals the best in care and also getting involved with community outreach involving reptiles. Not only has Earl provided some incredible specimens for our public exhibit, his knowledge of husbandry/breeding is right up there with the best of the best. Thanks to Earl's consultation over the phone on several occasions, we were able to make drastic improvements to our husbandry protocols; particularly those involving Bushmasters and King Cobras. While I know Mr. Ripa seems to feel that anythinig having to do with Bushmasters is his territory, there are many others, like Earl, who have been working with them for far longer and while some of the advice is conflicting, all I know is that following Earl's advice has allowed us to raise our bushmasters in a manner that they are in perfect health, great display animals, and we have never had any health issues on a long term basis. I've seen many good people get their names smeared on this BOR w/out any substantial evidence (me included) but all I know is that Earl is a good guy and if his strong Texas personality is too much for some folks, then pull up your panties and take a deep breath. Too bad that computers has made it so easy to take shots at people. And to Dean's wife, you made some pretty demeaning comments towards Earl...funny, the stuff I hear from Dean's staff/former staff leaves me shaking my head with a grin on my face. I'm sure you know.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
www.wildlifediscoverycenter.org
 
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