Are fuel prices crashing the herp market?

[The BoidSmith]

This is not intended to be a fatalist look at things, but just a reality check. In reading the herp ads daily I can see where animals are not selling as they used to months ago. Summer's almost over and kids are back to school in many parts of the country so that's no excuse. With gas at $3 a gallon and more are big time spenders taking a more conservative approach? Are people focusing now more on “needs” rather than “wants”?

Some reputable reptile brokers are dumping the market. If they are capable to do so is because they are buying from breeders at incredibly low prices. How long will both be able to survive in a market that they themselves are helping bring down? It wouldn’t surprise me if in the near future the players are realigned. We might be surprised with some names exiting the industry whereas some small, part-time, subsidized breeders being able to survive. After all it was the large dinosaur species that got extinct before the smaller ones that had fewer requirements for their maintenance.

Regards.

 

[Jim O]

Dan,

There are many factors going on at the same time. The price of fuel is one of them certianly, as most people have to dip into what was their "fun" (discretionary) budget to fill their gas tanks, and that was before the recent catastrophe in the gulf coast region. Those same people were looking at larger heating bills and this has a similar effect. Fewer people are willing to make longer drives to shows, both to shop and to vend. So the "impulse buyer" who sees an animal at a show and "must have it" is no longer buying at all and the sellers are looking at other ways to sell, and are probably having to reduce prices at the same time. Add to that the fact that no one in the affected regions will be buying anything anytime soon. Lastly (for for the demand side), some of us have dipped into our discretionary budgets to give charitable donations for hurrican relief. The Red Cross had already collected $200 million as of yesterday and I am certain that the Salvation Army and the United Way have each collected quite a bit too. Those are dollars not available to purchase reptiles.

Then, of course, is the idea that the markets may be a bit saturated, putting further downward pressure on prices. My friends who went to Daytona told me there were a lot of high end animals on display there, but not a lot of them seemed to actually get sold unless the deal had been made in advance. I think that was the general consensus on this site as well. The bubble may be leaking from some small pin holes now, but lots of Tom, Dick, and Harry hobbyists bought some hets and morphs over the last few years and are now producing 5-8 offspring/year/female and more from the males (to use the Ball Python model). While demand has been growing, eventually, at that rate, supply has to outstrip it.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Excellent post Jim.

 

[PaulSage]

I agree very much with what Jim said. I can't speak for anyone else, but here's why I haven't made many purchases in the past month or so: First of all, I'm currently at the height of cornsnake-baby season and am spending a great deal of time feeding and preparing babies for sale. The increased workload just means that I do not have as much "reptile time" available for purchasing and setting up new animals. Also, Dan you mentioned kids going back to school. I'm one of them, and that means tuition is due soon, as well as needing to buy books, etc., so I don't have as much $ available for making purchases, and classes are also cutting into my "reptile time". Finally, I am relocating my reptiles to a different area of my house and building a few racks, so there goes some more time and $.

That's just why I haven't engaged in much commerce lately. Basically it's just a combination of things happening at the same time that are eating up my time and $. However, fuel prices aren't really having an impact [yet] on my purchases. I WILL be at Tinley Park in October, even if I have to leave three days early and walk! I'm hoping that whatever I end up spending on fuel (estimated $35 based on yesterday's prices) will pay off by being able to do some "one-stop shopping" since so many vendors will be there. It seems a little ironic that it would still be cheaper for me to drive 330 miles than it would for me to have something shipped overnight from Chicago, but who knows where gas prices will be in 5 weeks.

 

[coyote]

I had spent the last year building a collection. Now I have a male this and a female that. I am concentrating on finding just the right mate for these singles and am very particular now. I won't spend any more money just to get one more pretty morph of the same species. I am concentrating on building pairs that have the pedigrees to produce the traits that I am interested in. That and I have to "replenish supplies" so to speak. I need larger cages, larger food items, larger heaters etc. because everyone is growing. I haven't stopped buying altogether, just being much more selective.

 

[Otter_23]

I have recently been wondering the same thing lately. I have seen so many repeated ads that seem like fair prices on nice animals. I also seem to see a lot of people getting out of certain animals (lot of gecko breeders selling their animals in group deals) and selling those lots perhaps to concentrate more on specific species. Being fairly new to the reptile industry I was wondering if it cycles like this or if the amount of breeders has produced enough animals to surpass demand. I guess I am hoping it is a cycle and with the gas prices etc... things will return to "normal". Until then I can't help but wonder how many more people are going to have to sell their collections because they were unable to sell their offspring. Seems like a lot of people are living in debt now and count their eggs as sold before they are even hatched. Anyway I'm now bordering rambling.
Mark Westberg

 

[greg19]

We'll all of you made some interesting points.I my self just starting in breeding balls can't seem to get things up and running right.I just finished my last job and cant find anything else,having to deal with increased gas pricing and costs going up on everything i've had to find cheaper ways to do things.So when you think all is lost,dig deeper and hang on for the ride because I think it will get worse before it gets better.That dont mean Im going to sell my balls.In my family,my animals are my children.

 

[Gloryhound]

I think the overall economy is dragging on the reptile industry. Smaller breeders that were not making a profit to begin with are feeling like the day after the New Years Party of the Century. Make no mistake though, I think all breeders, even the largest, are feeling it as well. These small breeders are who the reptile brokers make money from. The small breeder can't hold back things just cause the market can't support them, they just can't deal with that kind of overhead when they are already in up to their noses. They sell cheap just to buy food for the rest of their collection. Brokers don't make money keeping animals around in their racks either. They have to move volume though to make money. Cheap prices move volume. As I stated in another thread, the majority of people buying in the reptile industry are looking at price first, quality second, and health is generally not even considered until they have the problem. You can see this it the BIO when people pick an animal up in person and complain about health issues the next day. Or worse is the person that buys an animal through the mail and then doesn't tell the breeder/broker about a health issue until a month later when the breeder/broker finds out about it by being pointed to a BIO post. The other ones I have to laugh at are the BIO posts made an hour after they tried to call the breeder/broker and got their voice mail, yea, this person has the patience to properly care for an animal. lol

I have nothing against brokers, but I wonder how many small breeders realize the money these guys are making off of their hard work. If it didn't make them money they wouldn't do it.

 

[greg19]

whats up gloryhound'I feel ya'yes I think the market is slowly going down.gas is going up,but that don't mean you have to give up what you like,[like breeding reptiles]I'll always be doing it regardless.But i'm with you on everything you said.If people don't start caring for what they produce it will drive the market down.Before long,after everyone has sold out it will leave a place for the one's like me to take over and spring up.ofcourse with lots of luck.The only thing that worries me is the fact that if the economic problems were having keeps going the way there going it will fall so far down that no one will be left to do breeding of any kind.I look at it as a hobbie thats all,and I don't realy care if I make money at all because I enjoy doing it.If more people enjoyed breeding they would find things would go alot better,not only for them but for everyone.have a good one gloryhound,I've got to go find some work.