Arroyo pastel?

[Emily_Doughty]

Not sure what genes are in this girl. She was sold to me awhile ago as an arroyo pastel. Not super familiar with the arroyo gene though.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[brandinVS]

Def pastel arroyo.

 

[snowgyre]

I disagree. I don't see arroyo in that animal. Arroyo typically forces a dorsal stripe and this animal has far too much banding. If I were you, request photos of the parents. She's darker than normal but that's not necessarily a characteristic of arroyo.

 

[brandinVS]

I disagree. I don't see arroyo in that animal. Arroyo typically forces a dorsal stripe and this animal has far too much banding. If I were you, request photos of the parents. She's darker than normal but that's not necessarily a characteristic of arroyo.

Its def a pastel arroyo. I sold it to her as such because I still have the paperwork and screenshot of the purchase. This animal came straight from Freedom Breeder

 

[brandinVS]

I disagree. I don't see arroyo in that animal. Arroyo typically forces a dorsal stripe and this animal has far too much banding. If I were you, request photos of the parents. She's darker than normal but that's not necessarily a characteristic of arroyo.

I still have the paperwork... I couldnt find it when I sold it to her, but I sent her the paperwork for the other imports I purchased from them as well.
Js
She had this snake listed as a Dinker on MM
Id hate to see someone think they struck gold on a new morph meanwhile its just a pastel arroyo, low quality pastel at that.

 

[snowgyre]

Here's the issue, Freedom Breeder bought a lot of their stock from Dan Wolfe when he retired. A lot of that stock was arroyo and possible arroyo stuff. I saw Dan's collection in person while he was still in business in Montana. I saw his pastel arroyos, pastel rios, along with a bunch of his other projects that have since stalled (nova, black lace, quake, some dinker stuff). Dan Wolfe was the originator of arroyo/rio, his channel is still on YouTube for reference but hasn't (understandably) been updated for years. I have an arroyo female straight from Dan because there was so much misidentification going on and I didn't trust anyone else but him.

I'm not doubting you, I'm doubting Freedom Breeder. Regardless of how this was listed and sold as, I don't see arroyo in that animal, not even a tiny bit. I'm surprised they sold it as such. If the animal was in my possession I would hesitate even calling it a possible arroyo simply because it's not expressing any of that gene at all.

Here is Dan Wolfe's video explaining what arroyo/rio does, notice the dorsal stripe in every single combo he brings out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSubcLxWTGc

 

[snowgyre]

For comparison, I produced an orange dream enchi arroyo male last year from the female Dan sold me. Both orange dream and enchi are genes that like to form bands and normally lack a dorsal stripe. Arroyo is such a strong stripe gene that it forced a dorsal stripe even in a combo that shouldn't be striped at all. Considering how easy pastel is to manipulate with pattern-changing genes, any pastel that doesn't hatch out will a full, strong dorsal stripe I would hesitate to call arroyo.

Ironically I didn't hatch any plain jane enchi orange dreams last year (my only other comparison is het pied, which isn't a fair comparison), but there are plenty of photos online you can compare with.

Like I said above, I don't mean to offend anyone or call anyone's integrity in question, I just don't see any arroyo in that pastel and I've seen my fair share of pastel arroyo/rios.

 

[michiganexotics]

i agreed with Vanessa that doesn't look like Pastel Arroyo, provably other gene its on this one? that's why the wacky aliens on this pastel?? if i remember correctly Dan was the king of dinkers back in those days. i don't have nothing against Freedom Breeder but Vanessa its right they get all the collection with a lot dinkers and possibles. now that been say i never agreed with Dan when he was calling hets Rios. Arroyo (Rios) are incomplete dom or what we used call back in the days co-dom. Arroyos are visual. and yes i do own few Arroyos