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belly heat VS rear wall heat

A

amayon

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which do you prefer? im looking at a rack that has rear wall heat and i was always told belly heat is better, but never WHY. does it really MATTER? is rear heat just as good? i would think belly heat is better as (duh!) heat rises, so rear heat isnt really going INTO the bin, just UP..... am i right? should I insist the maker install belly heat not rear heat? thanks :)
 
I've built racks using both heating methods. Overall belly heat is more versatile and more effecient.
In my experience the back heated racks would only work in my heated snake room. Even then the heat tape had to run at full power to maintain the proper temperature. I prefer needing a thermostat to keep the heat from getting too high, then if you need a little more, you have it. The heat loss is much greater with back heat, however if a solid back were used this would be decreased.

Another issue with back heat is I would only use it for hatchlings and young snakes. The actual warm area is significantly smaller using back heat because you are heating the vertical rear wall rather than an area of the floor. The snake gets primarily radiant heat coming off that wall and therefore can only warm one side at a time so to speak as opposed to full body warming of heat from underneath.
With a hatchling, the body mass is such that this works fine, but with larger adults I believe more effecient digestion will be seen with more complete access to the warmth.

The only real benefit of rear heat to the user is the heat tape is not exposed to the wear of the tub sliding across it. There are ways to minimize that though.
From the builders perspective rear heat is easier to install due to how it's wired, but if the results are not as good then that's not a reason to do it.
I initially tried rear heat on a couple of hatchling racks after seeing some of the bigger cage manufacturers using that method. It works ok for that application in my herp room, but I will not be building or using any racks in the furure that are heated from the rear. In fact I recently moved the entire room and took that opportunity to rewire one of me larger racks to use under box heating instead.

If it were me and I was buying a rack I would require belly heat regardless of the tub size.
 
I think that's about right. Some heat will radiate in, when you have a back or side panel, but I don't think that method is very efficient.
 
Thanks. Guess I wont be buying from these people then, they say they cant put the belly heat in on this particular rack, and the other size rack (that they can) is out of my pricerange right now. grrrrr
 
That's what I should have said, Clay. :p . Sometimes I forget that not all of us have learned the same things, and it wouldn't hurt to spell it all out. Guess that's why one of my nicknames is Silent John.
 
I have used both

and came to the conclusion that the animals prefer the Belly heat.. When i had back heat the animals never moved from that area, as if they could not get warm enough, now with all my racks with belly heat, they move around to adjust to their own comfort zone, and eat alot better also!!! Good Luck! Mike L.
 
amayon said:
i would think belly heat is better as (duh!) heat rises...
Click to expand...

Heat does not rise, heated AIR rises, and the typical heat source used in a rack does not heat the air much at all. So the effieciency of belly heat has little to do with heat rising and more to do with other issues of thermodynamics.

For most rack situations I would prefer belly heat but there are exceptions. I won't get into that right now. I'm only on a few hours sleep and I don't have much time at the moment.

I will say that with the proper use of a reflective insulation you can greatly increase the efficiency of back heat. The last sweater-box rack I built was heated with nothing more than a single strip of rope-light along the back of each tub. The back of the tub was wrapped with Reflectix insulation and I was able to raise the temperature of the tub by 5*F. That was without even taping down the Reflectix to close off the large gaps on the back of the rack.

Another example:

I recommended to a guy that he cover the back of a rack with Reflectix. He was having trouble acheiving the temps he wanted. He just loosely placed the Reflectix over the back and started to do some other work. Within 20 minutes all of his snakes were pinned at the front of the cage, some even submerged in their water bowls. The rack has actually become TOO hot. He was only using a rheostat so the rack went from being borderline cool to borderline hot with the same wattage supply.
 
Reflective insulation is why radiant heat panels are so efficient and work well when on the ceiling of a cage. Remember, you can use RHP's to heat homes with 8' or taller ceilings. Also, depending on the flooring material, the floor temperature will actually be warmer than the ceiling, provided you're not measuring the surface temperature of the RHP itself.

This works because radiant heat (which is what Flexwatt produces) does not rise like convective heat. It travels parallel from its source until it is absorbed or reflected.

I believe Matt (the forum sponsor) sells Reflectix in small quantity for those of you who don't want to buy an entire roll.
 
Would aluminum foil work as a reflector?
 
Chris_Harper2 said:
Reflective insulation is why radiant heat panels are so efficient and work well when on the ceiling of a cage. Remember, you can use RHP's to heat homes with 8' or taller ceilings. Also, depending on the flooring material, the floor temperature will actually be warmer than the ceiling, provided you're not measuring the surface temperature of the RHP itself.

This works because radiant heat (which is what Flexwatt produces) does not rise like convective heat. It travels parallel from its source until it is absorbed or reflected.

I believe Matt (the forum sponsor) sells Reflectix in small quantity for those of you who don't want to buy an entire roll.
Click to expand...

Can this product be used between a UTH and the underlying surface to reflect more of the heat upward and into the cage?

Or is it intended more to wrap the walls with to retain what heat is inside inside?

I know that some heat mat manufacturers say that you can add insulation under their mats. My concern is for the safety of doing this. Heat build up and all.
 
coyote said:
Can this product be used between a UTH and the underlying surface to reflect more of the heat upward and into the cage?

Or is it intended more to wrap the walls with to retain what heat is inside inside?

I know that some heat mat manufacturers say that you can add insulation under their mats. My concern is for the safety of doing this. Heat build up and all.
Click to expand...

You can sandwich a heat source between a reflective insulation and a barrier like a cage floor. That is what I did with the rope light and the back of the tubs in my rack(s). But if the cage floor, for example, also has reflective properties this can put stress on the heat source - it may overheat. So it really depends on all the factors. I would not do this with a glass cage. I would do it with most plastic cages.
 
lucille said:
Would aluminum foil work as a reflector?
Click to expand...

I theory, yes. But I'd prefer Reflectix or another brand of similar insulation. For reference, this is the stuff that looks like bubble wrap covered with aluminum foil. I have seen a similar brand sold by the foot at my local Ace Hardware.

You also see sun reflectors for cars made out of the same stuff. You wedge it over your window while you're parked outside on a sunny day.
 
good points clay.......

........i think the recent mania over back heat is by mfg's who of coarse like the less labor intensive way of building a rack.i wonder if anybody has ever slapped there UTH on the back glass of a fish tank?

i recently built a rack with 3" belly tape and added reflectix in the back,the results are remarkable.in a cool room you can remove a tub and actually feel heat on your face.when i check the heat (belly) in a tub back to front i find that the temp changes every 2-2.5 inches ALL the way to the front.i have checked back heat with a raytek and probed thermostats and i urge you to do the same,you'll be amazed how much heat your animals DON'T get. have fun!
 
Okay, i thought i'd bring this topic back up to the top. I've been contemplating this, and I'd like to hear some fresh opinions from you trusted people with more experience than I. Please weigh in your opinions on back heat vs. belly heat. I want to think it thoroughly before I buy another rack. :)
 
I'm not sure there is much more to be said.
The choice between belly & back heat is largely personal preference...there are plenty of people that like back heat, despite it's drawbacks (mentioned in the above posts).

Personally, I have one rack with back heat - it works, but I don't care for it. It is in a room that is at 72 degrees or more for most of the year, so desired temps are maintained fairly easily. It is a 1754/1756 rack, though, so the front of the rack is only 16-17 inches from the back wall. (With the tubs going in lengthwise, as in a "standard" 32 qt rack, the distance would be greater - resulting in a greater temp gradient). The rack takes a lot more power to run, and the heat is almost always on.
 
i personally like belly heat for my geckos.
i do have a rack with back heat that is empty right now. i will try adding some Reflectix and see how much more efficiently it works for me.
i'll post the results when i get it done.
 
yeah, i've only got one rack right now, the animal plastics economy. It's got 3" flexwatt run for belly heat. It's not fully enclosed of course, and my next rack i'm hoping to order one of their regular racks. Just wanted to get a little more info, but I thinking along the same lines. That being sticking with belly heat.
 
reflectix results

I took a boaphile rack that i have that has back heat and covered it in reflectix.
The rack now gets about 15 degrees hotter:hot:. The energy efficiency will more than pay for the reflectix insulation.
 
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Versatility!

I'll always stick to belly heat, and here's why-

I have a finished basement. Its a walkout basement with a separate bedroom, bathroom, and laundry room. When I bought the house, I decided to use that bedroom as the snake room. The snake room door stays closed, and during the day, it stays about 78 degrees ambient. I could probably use back-heated racks without a problem. However, as I acquire more snakes, racks and cages may have to be moved out of the snake room and into the common area of the basement, which is not as warm. Had I bought my RBI racks with back heat, I would not have the option to move them- they would have had to stay in the snake room and I would have less room to play with. The belly heat option was completely worth the $20 upgrade.
 
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