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Info Boas and Balls

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indigos-r-us

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I am starting this since Lynn and Ken have come under fire from PETA for conditions at their facilities in Denver. I personally have know Ken and Lynn for years and am appreciative of the fact that they have been able to put on the Rocky Mt. Reptile show for about 10 years. No one else succeeded in pulling this off. It has mostly been a good show.

As for one of the things PETA was down on was the "thumping" of food animals to kill them. How many herpers do not do this if they don't have CO2 handy?

Anyway I am willing to give them a chance to pull the facilities around to meet the city standards etc. I believe everyone needs a second chance before pulling my support etc.
 
Most use cervical dislocation, which instantly kills the rodent. Thumping an animal does not immediately kill it most times.

After seeing the video, I really don't give a darn what they do. Congrats for running a reptile show? Maybe they should concern themselves with their animals health before taking on other "jobs".


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Bill, I have easily over a dozen people from CO refuting what you say and I also know that when a thread of this popped up in a local CO herp group on FB, it was eventually removed by moderators and any attempts to repost has been censored as well.

I know people who have been in the rodent industry for years and they said while the flooding tubs are something that just happens with the type of watering systems they use, the remainder of the video is inexcusable.

Additionally, if you do not have CO2 available in an operation that large, you need to re-examine your operation. Sure, whacking rodents is considered a mostly normal thing but 1.) you do not let people video tape you doing it 2.) you do not sit there and tell the rodent to stop struggling on video 3.) you learn how to do it properly so it is as quick and painless as possible. These morons had no clue as to what they were doing. Employees, volunteers or not, the owners are responsible for who is working for them.

All that aside, these people have been breeding and keeping reptiles and rodents for longer than I have existed on this earth (27 years), they should really know what they are doing by this point.

1. Filthy rodent tubs.
2. Kittens inside of filthy rodent tubs?
3. Apparent ring worm outbreak (sores that could be seen on rodents people received).
4. Overcrowding tubs so rats are fighting and chewing faces off each other, a wound which was quite old by the time it was discovered, mind you.
5. Overcrowding so that rats are cannibalizing one another.
6. Telling someone ON VIDEO that they would just shove a sick reptile in the freezer rather than bring it to a vet. when it is known that that is NOT the most humane method of euthanasia and the industry really needs to just stop thinking it is.
7. Saying that they called a vet. for a small animal that clearly needed some kind of medical attention rather than taking it to it on video.

I mean, really ...

I am all for second chances and I hope they can get their act together, but from what I have learned, this is really just kind of the tip of the ice berg for them.

I guess we will just have to see how it all develops, but understand, this is not just some inexperienced dillhole allowing one of the worse organizations ever to catch them with their pants down. These are people who are well known and who should have themselves together twenty times better than this. They should be an authority on proper example, not a poster child for negligence.
 
Diem,

Do not disagree with one thing you said. I was really commenting on the fact they have made a contribution locally in the Denver area with putting on the Rocky Mt. Reptile show. It is educational, they have birds of prey rehabilitators there, local herp club etc.
Now as for the filthy conditions that has no excuse. I just raise a few mice but I like them and even pet them from time to time. I keep them clean, have pieces of pvc plumbing joints to play in (keeps the aggression down, and pieces of oak blocks to chew on. Nesting females have schreded paper to put their babies in. I know a large enterprise cannot do this but if you can feel a snake or lizards comfort or discomfort in and enclosure you ought to be able to tell if a mouse or rat is feeling well or totally miserable. Yes they must rethink the rodent farm and pet shop if the want to survive. Ken and his son's built a fantastic building with proper ventilation etc. but I guess they did not go further and put in the metal drip watering system. They live in the country so any escaped or even a wild rat could knaw through a plastic line. I experienced that in my garage when I raised some in a breeding rack. Floods do happen but clean them up immeadiately and disinfect. Anyway they have the facility to run a first rate rodent farm if they hire some people and get organized. I think they are spread so thin with everything they take on it would be tough for anyone without hiring help. I will support the show and their setup at the show is fine. I won't support animal neglect if that is what is going on. Thanks for the comment.
 
Lynn did respond to me in the group "Colorado Reptiles and Feeders" yesterday after she posted the 2015 show dates. I attached the screenshots. Colorado Reptile Human Society was called upon to take in 50 or so animals yesterday and all they were able to say is that they were from a "local shop" but Lynn confirmed they were hers and very well respected vets in the area were going over today and yesterday to look them over. They were taken for "improper housing" which she admits to and claims they are working to fix it. I think the vets analysis will tell me a lot more about this situation as a whole. We have been vending at the shows on and off for years and while we have never personally gotten to know Lynn "Rocky Mountain Reptile Expo" is the only available show in the area. I dont freqent the petstore so I really couldnt tell you how bad things were but if 50 animals were seized that rings some serious alarm bells but I am willing to wait to hear the condition report from the vets.
 

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Here is the second half of the screen shots along with CRHS's plea for fosters/adopters/donations. So if anyone in the area has some extra space in their reptile rooms this holiday season I think some creatures may end up needing some homes! I dont know if it was a temporary seizure for evaluation or what exactly.
 
Forgot to upload them!
 

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Rats are largely well-mannered animals when cared for properly and not put in super stressful situations (i.e. overcrowding, not being fed properly and not being watered properly). So, to say that rat was attacked and partially cannibalized because rats are not nice shows ignorance in raising the animals.

More commonly rats in breeding facilities will be "not nice" to the human handlers by feeling as if they are protecting their offspring and their breeding partners, but that is to be expected to some degree. They are not, however, naturally inclined to be "not nice" to each other. Their social structure is incredibly complex.
 
indigos-r-us said:
I was really commenting on the fact they have made a contribution locally in the Denver area with putting on the Rocky Mt. Reptile show.
Click to expand...

I don't see how this is relevant. Terrible people are capable of great feats. For instance, here is a list of things Hitler accomplished for his nation/the world. (I am in no way implying the owners of Boas and Balls are anything like Hitler this is just a reference).

"He banned the vivisection of animals. He made animal conservation laws. He rallied people against Tobacco, he was a lead spokesperson in the Anti-Tobacco movement. Germany had extraordinary welfare programs under Hitler, one of the largest in the world. He ordered the creation of the Volkswagen which was really cheap yet very formidable, every German could afford a really nice running car. He created the autobahn, the Autobahn is now commonly known around the world as the Interstate Highway System, which was nothing but a name change by Eisenhower after World War 2. The Nazis were 50 years in front of the Americans and Russians in relation to the creation of rockets and jet engines, without POW German Scientists and Operation Paperclip America would have never got to the Moon. Germany advanced the film industry during Hitler, the quality of German films at the time were extraordinary compared to any others. Fashion, have you ever seen those SS uniforms? The Nazis may have lost WW2 but they'd beat anyone on a runway, they put great emphasis on fashion. The medical advances made by the Nazis were unreal, of course this included experimentation but it lead to the saving of many lives. "


Anyone who is capable of letting their animals suffer to this degree IS a terrible person without a doubt.
 
Yes there have been studies that prove rat’s setup in crowded conditions are stressed and have high levels of stress hormones. Since rats are one of the smartest rodents the learn quickly to learn various tests presented. However a stressed rat is visibly stressed and does not learn nearly as quickly as rats that were kept in the "rat hotel". An enclosure not crowded, many levels, lots of toys to keep them from getting bored etc. Their cognitive abilities were almost twice what the stressed rats were. Fortunately the rats eventually got moved to non-stressed conditions and they recovered their functions. I would never feed a live rat unless it cannot be absolutely necessary if a snake will just not eat anything else. A rat will feel fear of dying that you can see visibly. The same with a rabbit. I do not feed any that have not been put down by responsible breeders that use CO2 to dispatch their animals. As far as someone feeding a kitten or puppy I draw the line. I would not tolerate that. I love these creatures so much that we have adopted 2 cats. 1 that was due to be euthanized at a kill shelter and rescued by a group that does that. The other was a spoiled little rascal that had "foster parents". We work with the SPCA shelter here in Longmont and no pet left behind. I don't care if they are feral, euthanized is far more humane than being fed to a snake. I would fight to protect them. I heard that a guy in Louisiana was going to a shelter and pretending to adopt pets from several in the area and feeding them as cheap food. He was eventually busted for cruelty to animals, had his reptiles confiscated and fined. I heard he even spent jail time although I could not confirm that. Good riddance.
 
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