Briar Patch Herps, False Advertising

[serrasalmus]

William, how many times are you going to post up a false advertisement and then pull it down the SECOND you get called on it? I posted an informative reply to your advertisement, and you removed it not 3 minutes after I posted. Luckilly I saved your latest work of fiction.





BriarpatchHerps
William Andrew Horn
Full Member
Online

Registered: Mar 2003
Location: near Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 184
Feedback Rating: (2)

Warning Level: 7
[ View User Warnings ]

Introducing The Strangest Turtle Known To Man
Ever watched Sea Turtles at the aquarium or the nature channel? They glide gracefully through the water, such a large cumbersome looking animal moving so peacefully in a rythmic fluid motion. Only compariable to watching the Manatees or Sea Rays in my opinion.

One other creature fits in with these odd specialized animals and it's native to only the cleanest fresh waters of New Guinea and Australia. Virtually unchanged for nearly 10,000yrs they're very slow growing. Being almost complete herbivores will accept the occasional small fish or Turtle-Trout chow. Otherwise the animals feed on bits of fruit, greens, vegetables, nontoxic freshwater plants, moss and algae. An adult size of these animals isn't reached for 20-30yrs where they are in the vacinity of 25in long and possibly 50lbs. +/-

These are turtles you can actually enjoy indoors, in your livingroom aquarium without concern of it chewing the tails off of your expensive freshwater fish. They're a timid and shy animal only choosing food items much smaller than themselves unlike Snappers and Redear Sliders which will take a chunk out of any fish that holds still long enough regardless of its size.

These animals could be considered a mixture of Softshell turtle, Leatherback Sea turtle and the odd looking fleshy Mata Mata. We would like to introduce to you, the strangest turtle known to man.

CH Carettochelys Insculpta 2-3in $325ea
Often referred to as Pig Nosed turtles or Fly River turtles

We accept Cash, Money Order, Bank Transfer and PayPal
All electronic transaction fees are the customers responsibility. Personal Checks and Cashiers Checks are also welcome, we will ship your animals after it clears the bank.

Our goal is to supply Grade A animals, 100% of the time.

Sulcatas and Redear Sliders are taking over the world, do we really need more?


__________________
Regards,

William Horn
[email protected]






How can you live withyourself trying to sell animals using false information to unsuspecting beginning hobbyists, who might actually believe the drivel that's in your posts?

I hope everyone will check this thread before they decide to make any purchases from you. BUYER BEWARE!

Here are the original FACTS that I posted, before you so gracefully tried to erase your falsities:

Fly river turtles are OPPORTUNISTIC feeders, they will eat anything and everything that they can get their cute little mouths around.

Fly river turtles can reach adult sizes in 10 years, not 20-30.

Fly river turtles WILL attack any and ALL aquarium fish that it can, mainly while they are sleeping. It has been known to bite the disc margins and eyes of freshwater stingrays, and the fins of any fish that venture close enough to it while the animal is resting on the bottom.

Fly river turtles are NOT closely related to Mata Matas. Their closest relatives are the soft shell turtles.

William, it's people like you that provide fodder to the people who want to ban ALL herps. You sell animals like these to the unsuspecting, who then have no idea how to take care of them, and then might just even release them into the wild.

What's next, vegetarian reticulated pythons that don't grow over 3 feet?

 

[Chris@TSE]

Josh is a great friend of mine, and our aquatics director with Top Shelf Exotics. I consulted his expert opinion after reading this advertisment. I've owned numerous fly river turtles, and his ad was quite shocking to say the leat. I'm glad I'm not theo nly one who thought this was insane!

 

[Chris@TSE]

(sorry for the typo's, it's a bit late)

 

[serrasalmus]

Yes, sorry this had to be my first post over here, but when Chris linked me to that thread, I couldn't keep my mouth shut. You can verify many of my credentials at my website, http://www.predatoryfish.net . I have been heavily into aquatics and herps for over 10 years. I have traveled around the world collecting both herps and fish (which, I can verify with my photographs, just PM me and ask), and will have an article coming out early next year in Tropical Fish Hobbyist about the effects of Potamotrygon envenomation. My name is Joshua Smick, and I'm a sucker for any vertabrate ectotherm.

 

[NEWReptiles]

Patches is the BS ad king it seems. He tried to pawn of normal Ball Pythons as proven morphs now on a few occasions. Its not surprising to see him doing the same with other species.

I would not touch ANYTHING that guy is trying to sell..

 

[odatria]

DITTO!

His ad makes me wonder if he even has the animals in his collection. One wouldnt have to own them a week to notice half of what his ad claims s false.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Or he simply did not care and was looking to make a quick buck off an uneducated hoobyist. Either way, pretty crappy.....

 

[Chris@TSE]

Care to try explaining this one William?

This im sure will be good..........

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

I pulled the ad because the last animal was sold a week ago slick, your reply brought it to my attention that I hadn't removed it. If you think for a split second your meanderings had anything to do with it you're nuttier than squirrel dung.

As for false advertising or incorrect information? I maintain my animals on the exact same diet we used at the zoo which is what got me interested in them to begin with and everything I posted is from personal experience with animals in MY care which was...ooop MY animal posted for sale. Who would know more about the behavior of my animals, me or you? If you disagree? GREAT! You have an opinion, congratulations.

Why would you even think for a second every single specimen of a species has the exact same feeding habits? You're obviously not a fisherman.....if you were you would realize that animals do get acquired tastes for certain things and are opportunistic feeders. Especially when it comes to omnivores, regardless WHAT species it is they always lean one way or the other - be it driven by taste preference or what's abundant.

Update your notes from specialists on the species.

http://www.carettochelys.com

The food requirements of Carettochelys insculpta

If you want your turtles to grow steadily and be healthy, you have to feed them proper food. You should try to imitate the natural conditions as much as possible. I try to feed our Carettochelys insculpta as various food as possible. There are three basic rules according to which I decide which food to provide.

1. Species - of course, you must feed your turtle stuff that's appropriate for its stomach. This means the turtle should be fed only food that's available in its natural environment or adequate supplements. The species that I have are all more or less omnivorous, meaning they eat both animal and plant matter. The balance between animal and plant matter varies from species to species. For example, the Carettochelys species has the animal-plant ratio 1:2 (this info may differ from the information which you can come across within other sources, but it is based on my personal experience). The diet requirements can also vary according to the age of a particular turtle.

2. Season - no matter what species you have, the dietary requirements vary thorough the year. This is related to the climate changes within their natural environment and availability of certain food resources.

3. Experience - As you become more experienced concerning keeping turtles, you will know exactly what your turtles want and require. Here are some tips which you may consider.

Never ever feed your turtles the same stuff again and again. If you feed your turtle just one type of food, not only will the turtle get fed up with it, but you will also deprive the turtle of important minerals, vitamins, and other supplements. Therefore, the more items are on your turtle's menu, the better. Of course, make sure you don't feed your turtle stuff that could damage its health. First of all, I suggest you get appropriate literature or ask older breeders to find out what particular species of turtles eat.

Many turtle owners suggest to move turtles into a different tank when feeding them to prevent the water go off very soon. In my opinion, it is always stressful for the turtle to be moved around so I rather suggest strong filtration and regular water changes.

Irregular feeding pattern: Many turtle owners keep arguing how often should their turtles be fed. Some say turtles should be fed once a day, some say turtles should be fed every second or third day, some say differently. The common sense tells me that we should imitate the natural conditions. It's more than obvious that, in the natural environment, turtles eat when they come across or catch some food. Sometimes turtles have access to plenty of food and sometimes they're starving or eating less. I try to implement these 'chaotic' feeding habits. Therefore, there may be a time that I feed our turtles several days in a row with various foods and amounts, then I skip 1 or 2 days and follow with a few days of feeding, change the time of the day when the turtles are fed and so on. In other words, using this chaotic feeding pattern sort of creates the natural feeding conditions under which turtles eat in irregular time intervals, different types of food and different amount. Of course, I agree that hatchlings and juveniles should be fed more frequently than adults mainly to support their rapid growth.

"Carettochelys is omnivorous, but tending more toward herbivory than toward omnivory (Groombridge, 1982). In the Gulf Province of Papua New Guinea, it principally feeds on the unripe fruits of the mangrove species Sonneratia spp. possibly by cropping the fruits from the vegetation at high tide (Rose, unpublished data). Fruits from Xylocarpus sp., Nypa fructicous, Canorium indicum, Antrocarpus incisor, the wild pit pit Sachhorum robistum are also eaten. Animal foods included the molluscs Batissa violocea, Nerita sp and Centhidea sp, and the crustacean Siyellu serrata. In Australia, Carettochelys feeds on the leaves, fruits and flowers of riparian vegetation, especially the Fig Ficus racemosa, the bush apple Syzygium forte, and Pandanus aquaticus (Schodde et al., 1972; Legler, 1982; Georges and Kennett, 1989). Other foods include aquatic insect larvae, crustacea, mollusca, fishes and mammals possibly eaten as carrion, and aquatic plants such as algae, Vallisneria sp. and Najas tenuifolia (Cogger, 1970; Schodde et al., 1972; Legler, 1982; Georges et al., 1989; Georges and Kennett, 1989). The wide range of foods eaten provides great scope for opportunism, and the diet varies greatly with the foods available from locality to locality." (Georges A. and Rose M., 1993)

 

[evansnakes]

Just my 2 cents but a friend and I maintained a group of baby fly river turtles as well as some young adults for a couple years. Ours all ate very well on reptomin, romain lettuce, feeder fish and just about anything else we put in the tanks. They were very interesting captives that I found very simple to care for. The babies loved being in a group in a 120 gallon tank and the young adults did very well in 240 gallon tank until they sexually matured and started attacking each other, which is when they got separated. All of the animals we had were legally imported with documentation that the federal government has now come out and said is no longer valid. It is my understanding that any commerce in the species is now illegal here in the US.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Great, you can copy and paste feeding requirments from a webpage. What skill....

You still havent explained why you mislead your customers into believing FRT's are safe to house with other fish, and you even went as far to say EXPENSIVE freshwater fish.

What were to happen if you sold an uneducated customer a FRT and it took a nice chunk out of a prized arowana, or how about a nice rare expensive pearl ray?

I bet you wouldnt replace the fish.......

FRT's are VERY opportunistic feeders, they'll take a shot at anything they can. I know this for a fact, your FRT's are no different than any others in any captive collections, don't try to convince anyone otherwise.

Not to mention the picture you posted of your FRT on numerous sites was STOLEN from another website, reversed, and your logo was added.

Don't lie to potential customers to make a sale. It's bad business, and it makes you look worse than you already do.

 

[serrasalmus]

It appears that I have engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
I appreciate your infantile insults, however, you did not address ANY of the original issues that I brought up.
How do I need to check my facts? You just restated everything that I just said. Where does it say that they're herbivorous, hmmmm?


Where does it state that they don't attack their tank mates, hmmm?

Why'd the ad come down less than 3 minutes after I posted it up, hmm?

In terms of diet, you originally said:

Being almost complete herbivores will accept the occasional small fish or Turtle-Trout chow. Otherwise the animals feed on bits of fruit, greens, vegetables, nontoxic freshwater plants, moss and algae.

Then, in a very John Kerryesque style, you said:

. Species - of course, you must feed your turtle stuff that's appropriate for its stomach. This means the turtle should be fed only food that's available in its natural environment or adequate supplements. The species that I have are all more or less omnivorous, meaning they eat both animal and plant matter.

Very smooth.

I don't have an opinion, I have scientific fact, which is EXACTLY what you state when you are selling an animal, unless you're crooked. Since you are doing your best to cover your posterior from the original asinine drivel that you posted, you are, in fact, crooked.

Where did you address the growth rate issue that you originally got wrong?

What about attacking their tank mates?

I'm not a fisherman, huh? According to your logic, I guess I should have been going after Pygocentrus natererri cf "ternetzi" with romaine lettuce.


Let's do a quick rundown of your post.

First, you tried to intimidate me with playground insults.

Then, you spent the rest of the post contradicting everything you had originally said.

Thank you for proving my point, and for showing the rest of this fine community why they should never purchase an animal from you.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Being almost complete herbivores will accept the occasional small fish or Turtle-Trout chow. Otherwise the animals feed on bits of fruit, greens, vegetables, nontoxic freshwater plants, moss and algae. An adult size of these animals isn't reached for 20-30yrs where they are in the vacinity of 25in long and possibly 50lbs. +/-

thats what you said, now you post a PASTE from a website saying they are omnivorus....


not to mention you have not cleared up any of the other lies.

you are simply "full of it"

Grade A Scam artist out to take advantage of uneducated hobbyists to make a quick buck. Hows that almighty dollar?

Nice try.....

Feel free to post again and make yourself look even worse than you already do. I'll leave the rest of this to josh, he's the expert in this field.

 

[evansnakes]

Our turtles would happily feed on anything they were given but would chase fish at light speed. They are certainly not leaning towards being vegatarians and in their native habitat they live in very well populated waterways with a large variety of live prey.

 

[Lizzums]

What a sick, sad little man.

I've never even laid eyes upon a FRT in real life, and even I know these things. Pathetic, Mr.

Some one might want to take that stick out of your ass and beat you with it after one of the ''Most peaceful, happy turtles'' takes a chunk out of their prized fish.

 

[romad119]

Didn't theadd also state that any electronic transactions fees are the customers responsibility. Isn't that against Paypal's TOS?

 

[serrasalmus]

I didn't see it in his latest work of fiction. However, I believe that his scam is completely against PayPal's TOS.

William, I'm anxiously awaiting your next incredibly intelligent masterpiece. When are you going to realize that what you are doing is WRONG? Do you actually believe what you have been saying?

 

[DragonCharm]

Good morning Josh and Chris, glad to see you out there shutting down scammers.

Here's a post from a guy I know re: his experience with keeping his FRT with fish: http://aqua-addiction.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1128

 

[turtlepimp]

TurtlePeople?

I read the ad,but have no clue who Briarpatch herps are,but that is of little importance.

I read the ad,and have no clue what the gripers are complaining about.

Not sure I would have written any different.They do make great indoor display animals,they do grow slow,and when fed well,show little interest in fish.

My personal experience is they eat pellets,fruits,and romaine.They care little about fish unless they are dead.They like to bury themselves.Yada Yada.Check out Carretochelys.com.Thats Scott Thomsons website,the leading authority on Austrailian Chelids.


To the legality issues?Do you really want to go there?

With few exceptions,FlyRivers are smuggled in.Smuggled?

Yeah,you see,Flyrivers are protected everywhere they occur.They are niether CITIES or ESA listed,but the US repects these countries laws.Import papers mean nothing if USFWS decides they don't want you to have them.There is no valid import permit without a valid export permit,which none are issued.

Is this topic just a personal vendetta?

 

[DragonCharm]

Re: TurtlePeople?

show little interest in fish.

They care little about fish unless they are dead.

Guess you didn't read what I linked to, nice little post about a FRT destroying a nice motoro.

I don't know that clown, don't have any ax to grind. Also, I don't sell turtles so there is no business reason I would be interested in him.