• Posted 12/19/2024.
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    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

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Calcium With or Without D3?

What type of Supplement do you use?

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Herpcam

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We started discussing this in another thread and I wanted to move it in its own thread to see what the newest thoughts are on the matter. I've been doing this going on 6 years now and I've always used Miner-all I with D3, but there are care sheets online that discourage the addition of D3, noting that it could cause an overdose. My original thinking, which was backed up with several old threads and conversation with Linda J. Davison, owner of Sticky Tongue Farms, which makes Miner-all, was to use Miner-all I because they are always inside and never bask in the sun or UV lighting.

What does everyone else do? I typically either dust crickets with Miner-all I or put it in the mealworm dish and use Herptivite once or twice a week or so in the same manner.

Please post a message as well as voting, so we can see your rationale for doing what you do and your success or failures with a certain method. I'm particularly interested if anyone has any proof of D3 or Calcium overdose in leopard or fattail geckos (or any other terrestrial geckos, I guess).
 
I give my leos D3, but sparingly. I give them lot of calcium without any D3 as well. Never had any evidence of a D3 overdose that I'm aware of, but I'm concerned about the possibility so I try to go easy on the D3.

Some of my original leos I keep under UVB, since they have always been kept that way, and those I don't give nearly as much D3 to, but still give some once in a while ( I cut the Minerall I with regular calcium, then dust their bugs, about once a month).
 
i use plain old calcium carbonate i suppliment with herptivite once a week or once every two weeks but i also gutload my feeders very well. i used to use mineral (couple years back)but i do not think it has everything for leos (as far as a complete suppilemt)... i think it is more suited for chams and animals that NEED d3 and the uva/uvb light crap or natural sunlight... i also do not think t-rex's leopard gecko dust is a complete formula either... IMHO i think it is the absolute worst off all the suppliments out right now... there may be some worse but none i have ever come across
 
I use Minerall O no D3 because I am afraid for overdosing but then again Ive never heard of a leo keeper that had a leo die of D3 overdose so this is surely something I am interested in knowing more about.

Most of my reading has led me to believe that no D3 is better than the possibility of too much with Leos so I went with none.

I can see that it should be fine to give it to them on a limited basis and I may start doing that. I have Minerall I for my chams so I may start giving it to them 1 time a week.
 
I hate to say I do not know what kind of calcium I use, its pure calcium from premiumreptiles.com, I use it in the mealie dish with the minerall and in a calcium dish too. I dust the crix with the mineral only but only feed crix 2 times a week and mealies 24/7.
 
Robin, I just read the back of the Mineral and it doesn't have much it it at all, I think Ill be switching to the herptivite now! Thanks for mentioning that!
 
i dont use Miner-al

but i do use Rep-cal, i use pure calcium 3 times a week, and D3 once a week, i've never had any problems with D3 poisoning, i think if its given to them at every feeding for thier whole life, then you will begin to see problems.

i also use T-rex's Microstick calcium when i cannot find rep-cal, and if i cant find that, i go with jurrasical
 
Info on vitamin D3.....
Here is an LD50 on vitamin D3
- Currently available toxicology studies on Vitamin D3 are as follows:
- Oral LD50 in rats: 352 mg/kg and 42 mg/kg for males, and 619 mg/kg
for females.
So will your leo overdose on D3???? Problably not.... But When given in amounts that are not needed, you will be forcing your leos motabolism to over regulate its Calcium/phosphorus absorbsion ratio which in turn will through it out of whack..... This will lead to kidney and liver failure..... This can be why some leopard geckos seem to die without reason...... I have seen more than a few posts about peoples leos dieing because of kidney and liver failure..... This might just be one of a few reasons why this happens..... Just something to think about....
 
So basicly, you would never know if your leo overdoses on D3 because they would actually die as a result of kidney or liver failure..... If one or both of those are found, that would be where the vet stops the necropsy.... The only way to tell would be to check D3 levels and the calcium/phosphorus levels and compare them to what the proper levels should be in healthy leopard geckos..... I am sure that is why you have never heard of an actual vitamin D3 overdose.....
 
I have attempted dusting in the past without success, my leo will just lick it and walk away from it. I guess another attempt couldn't hurt. I try to gut load the mealworms as much as possible though.
 
VERY Good points Gregg, so do you use supplements with D3 or without?

I just feel safer without the D3 myself.
 
Wendy, I would not totally cut it out of their intake..... I use Miner-all I about once a month sometimes once every 2 months..... Like Robin, I normaly use regular old calcium without phosphorus or D3......
 
Gregg M said:
Wendy, I would not totally cut it out of their intake..... I use Miner-all I about once a month sometimes once every 2 months..... Like Robin, I normaly use regular old calcium without phosphorus or D3......
Click to expand...

Thanks Gregg!!!

I do have some minerall I for my chams, Ill start using it every few weeks.
 
I think it's hard to establish what the ideal dusting routine should be because the needs are going to vary with different diets. If you're feeding only mealworms, you should probably dust more often than if you were feeding strictly crickets--the reason being that mealworms are less nutritious and have more phosphorus content that needs to be balanced with calcium. It's my belief that people commonly oversupplement their geckos as a result of following the care guidelines that were established by the pioneers of leopard gecko breeding who fed mealworm-only diets.

Personally, I don't think leopard geckos actually require the most nutrient-rich gutloading/supplementation possible. When you think about what their natural diet is in the wild (grasshoppers, spiders, scorpions, etc.), they're not designed to live off of highly nutritious diets. You can spend all the money you want on the best gutload recipe, but the truth is, the crickets are just going to poop it out within a couple of hours. (On a related note, high levels of calcium aren't natural to crickets and can actually kill them.) Additionally, leos aren't designed to live off of fatty diets like mealworms. They're not burrowing-type of animals, so it doesn't make sense to feed them a staple of grubs and other worm-type bugs.

What got me started thinking about this was when I began paying attention to the amount of crystallization on the urates for my non-breeding adult leos. Crystallization could be a sign of anything (kidney or liver problems being one of them) or could cause problems like blockages. So I cut back my calcium dusting to about once a week, eliminated mealworms completely from their diets, and the crystallization practically disappeared. I'm planning on learning to do urinalysis so I can analyze the composition of the urate crystals and determine if they were really a result of oversupplementation and oversupplementation of what.
 
I currently use osteo-form calcium that contains D3. I’m not overly concerned about overdoses because the leos aren’t exposed to artificial UV light or sunlight. If they were exposed to those lights they would naturally be producing D3 on top of what they’re being supplemented with and in result they could overdose. The safe amount of D3 to give is currently unknown. My vet and I have discussed this topic quite a bit and agree that D3 supplementation shouldn’t be cut off totally. Just my opinion…
 
progeckos said:
The safe amount of D3 to give is currently unknown. My vet and I have discussed this topic quite a bit and agree that D3 supplementation shouldn’t be cut off totally. Just my opinion…
Click to expand...

I agree 100% Cody...... This needs to be looked into a bit more......
 
Rob, we use the TREX ICB leo dust for our feeder insects and use a dish of Osteoform Calcium in the enclosures, the leos will consume it dry by itself....

Works great!
 
I dust with calcium and leave a cap full of Rep CAl w/d3 In there enclosures, and some times I mix some with the calcium for dusting.
But since taking prevacid I no longer need Tums!...OH!!! wrong thread! Neeeeeevermind! :slamit:
 
I use Rep-Cal with D3, and Herptivite. I occasionally use Bone Aid (T-Rex MicroStack) calcium carbonate only as well. I've never ran into any problems either.
 
Thanks Everyone

Thanks for the info. Anyone else want to let us know what you use and results? Even if you don't have any comments, please vote so we have as much info as possible.
 
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