• IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! This concerns the future of this site.

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    Posted 07/14/2025
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    Putting this at the top so it will more likely be read rather than skipped over.

    If you read below, you will see that I disabled the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025 in the hopes that I could get you all to donate AT LEAST $25 per day to make up the shortfall such an action would entail to financially support this site. I just got finished checking the stats through PayPal of the previous 6 months, and I plainly see that this did not happen. Yes, some people donated more that the bottom level Contributor Membership, but equally plain is that most people don't give a crap as long as they get a place to advertise their animals and merchandise for free. Well excuse me. I asked for help and apparently that fell on a lot of deaf and uncaring ears. Do you feel it unfair of me to want to make some money from this site, just as YOU are apparently wishing to do? I sure do hope that concept doesn't shock and offend you. But it is what it is. As such I will be reinstating that Google Adsense Ads as soon as I get around to it .

    Burdensome are they? Well, I don't like them either, but I gave you the opportunity to show me they weren't needed to keep this site financially solvent. You blew it. Don't like the ads and want to go elsewhere? Sorry about that. Bye bye. Good luck to you. You left me no choice if this site is going to remain alive. It is either that or I just pull the plug on this site and you all will HAVE to go elsewhere. Yes, I know some people will be overjoyed by such a move, and personally I really don't care about that. I have done my part as best I can. I really don't need to be doing this AT ALL.

    And please, don't come to me asking me to donate this site to you. Screw that. I didn't go through all the headaches running this site for decades to just GIVE it to someone. I would just as soon see it become just a footnote in the history books.

    Do I sound angry? Sorry if I come across this way. In reality, I am just VERY disappointed in the whole herp industry in how they treated this site. Snubbed it, really. Oh well. I guess it was my fault for expecting (hoping?) for more out of people.

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    Posted 12/19/2024.
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    I am still waiting on my developer to finish up on the Classifieds Control Panel so I can use it to encourage members into becoming paying members. Google Adsense has become a real burden on the viewing of this site, but honestly it is the ONLY source of income now that keeps it afloat. I tried offering disabling the ads being viewed by paying members, but apparently that is not enough incentive. Quite frankly, Google Adsense has dropped down to where it barely brings in enough daily to match even a single paid member per day. But it still gets the bills paid. But at what cost?

    So even without the classifieds control panel being complete, I believe I am going to have to disable those Google ads completely and likely disable some options here that have been free since going to the new platform. Like classified ad bumping, member name changes, and anything else I can use to encourage this site to be supported by the members instead of the Google Adsense ads.

    But there is risk involved. I will not pay out of pocket for very long during this last ditch experimental effort. If I find that the membership does not want to support this site with memberships, then I cannot support your being able to post your classified ads here for free. No, I am not intending to start charging for your posting ads here. I will just shut the site down and that will be it. I will be done with FaunaClassifieds. I certainly don't need this, and can live the rest of my life just fine without it. If I see that no one else really wants it to survive neither, then so be it. It goes away and you all can just go elsewhere to advertise your animals and merchandise.

    Not sure when this will take place, and I don't intend to give any further warning concerning the disabling of the Google Adsense. Just as there probably won't be any warning if I decide to close down this site. You will just come here and there will be some sort of message that the site is gone, and you have a nice day.

    I have been trying to make a go of this site for a very long time. And quite frankly, I am just tired of trying. I had hoped that enough people would be willing to help me help you all have a free outlet to offer your stuff for sale. But every year I see less and less people coming to this site, much less supporting it financially. That is fine. I tried. I retired the SerpenCo business about 14 years ago, so retiring out of this business completely is not that big of a step for me, nor will it be especially painful to do. When I was in Thailand, I did not check in here for three weeks. I didn't miss it even a little bit. So if you all want it to remain, it will be in your hands. I really don't care either way.

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    Some people have indicated that finding the method to contribute is rather difficult. And I have to admit, that it is not all that obvious. So to help, here is a thread to help as a quide. How to become a contributing member of FaunaClassifieds.

    And for the record, I will be shutting down the Google Adsense ads on January 1, 2025.
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

cheating

W

watchdog

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Having watched certain sites fairly closely over the last 6+ months I have to say that it's fairly dissapointing that so much cheating goes on.. it makes this topsites list pretty useless in my mind.. take the centre for reptile and amphibian reaserch for example, the other day they got 5242 hits from 25 unique visitors. PATHETIC. if that isnt cheating what is? it's been going on for a long time and they are not the only ones!

What are the rules re cheating sites here?

if it's allowed then i'll jump on the bandwagon too, if not then how about doing somehting about it?

watchdog
 
watchdog said:
Having watched certain sites fairly closely over the last 6+ months I have to say that it's fairly dissapointing that so much cheating goes on.. it makes this topsites list pretty useless in my mind.. take the centre for reptile and amphibian reaserch for example, the other day they got 5242 hits from 25 unique visitors. PATHETIC. if that isnt cheating what is? it's been going on for a long time and they are not the only ones!

What are the rules re cheating sites here?

if it's allowed then i'll jump on the bandwagon too, if not then how about doing somehting about it?

watchdog
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know some website webmasters cheat on the stats. They want to be on the first page of the site and will do whatever is necessary to accomplish that. I have caught several and slapped them with the evidence. Most flatly deny it even when the evidence is overwhelming.

So tell you what. You make a list of everyone who is cheating, your reasons for believing that, and provide as much evidence as you can to prove the cheating, then contact those webmasters and get back to me. I'll take it from there.
 
watchdog said:
Having watched certain sites fairly closely over the last 6+ months I have to say that it's fairly dissapointing that so much cheating goes on.. it makes this topsites list pretty useless in my mind.. take the centre for reptile and amphibian reaserch for example, the other day they got 5242 hits from 25 unique visitors. PATHETIC. if that isnt cheating what is? it's been going on for a long time and they are not the only ones!

What are the rules re cheating sites here?

if it's allowed then i'll jump on the bandwagon too, if not then how about doing somehting about it?

watchdog
Click to expand...

Pointing out that some sites are engaged in dishonorable activity is fine: the BOI was founded to point out, and ferret out the bad guys. I personally feel that this particular site is run with integrity, but your specific example from another site was excellent and illustrative of the behavior your wished to point out.

But saying that if permitted, you would jump on the bandwagon?
To me, cheating is wrong. It doesn't matter who does it, it is wrong. I agree that when one sees others doing something that is obviously dishonorable, and doing it with impunity, it is galling. I think it would be good to take the high road and help expose such misdoings, which your post helped to do.
 
I should not have said that i'll jump on the bandwagon, I wont. I disslike cheats, it's unfair, it's wrong. I have approached a couple of webmasters, all i got was f***off and mind your own business from repti farm. their stats are also really sad, I fail to see how 300 visits can equate to 4300 pagehits.

Pangea is another one.

One of the other webmasters I contacted decided to not be on the list rather than not cheat after presenting him with "statistics!"

I sent another message to reptile and amphibian research centre, i don,t expect a reply from them.

Thanks for being concerned
watchdoggie :uzi:

PS, Lucille, what is also BOI?
 
Pangea has a very active Rhac forum hooked to the site. Does this contribute to the numbers in any way? I know, myself, will add several hits a day. Somehow I just think Matt has more to do than sit around and click refresh all day.
 
watchdog said:
PS, Lucille, what is also BOI?
Click to expand...

The BOI is the Board of Inquiry: a forum on this site dedicated to making the reptile commercial experience safer for us all by allowing those who have had personal experiences with vendors and individuals to recount them in public. 'Good guys' those who are honest and ethical are presented by satisfied customers and hopefully get more business because of their sterling character.

The slimeballs of the reptile world are exposed by people who have been cheated and scammed, and these scammers also will hopefully reap what they sowed.

All in all, one of the finest example of commercial justice in the modern world; and an expanded version for commerce in general is being trialed by this webmaster on another site.
 
watchdog said:
I have approached a couple of webmasters, all i got was f***off and mind your own business from repti farm. their stats are also really sad, I fail to see how 300 visits can equate to 4300 pagehits.

Pangea is another one.

One of the other webmasters I contacted decided to not be on the list rather than not cheat after presenting him with "statistics!"

I sent another message to reptile and amphibian research centre, i don,t expect a reply from them.

Thanks for being concerned
watchdoggie :uzi:
Click to expand...

Exactly........... Which is why I am reluctant to step my foot into that pile..

An interesting phenomenon I have noticed is that if you catch someone lying, cheating, or stealing, and accuse them of that, with ALL the facts on your side, YOU become the bad guy in their eyes and they will usually hate your guts for all eternity because of it. So with that in mind, perhaps it is best to just leave things as they are and let astute viewers make their own decisions, based on the stats they can see and interpret, about the people running those sites.
 
it's frustrating but your right webslave. while topsites lists work off pagehits and not unique viewers this problem will always exist.

As for sitting back clicking links all day, anyone who calls themselves a webmaster should be able to think up at least a dozen ways to cheat using scripts etc if they wanted to, it's just too easy.

Watchdoggie
 
sad to say repti-farm has not slowed down with stats cheating, if anything they're getting worse.. almost 5000 hits from 300 users is a joke and very unfair on those who do it properly.

repashy is just as bad, some days they forget to cheat, it's pretty obvious :(

Whats wrong with you people?
 
Hurley said:
Pangea has a very active Rhac forum hooked to the site. Does this contribute to the numbers in any way? I know, myself, will add several hits a day. Somehow I just think Matt has more to do than sit around and click refresh all day.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this statement...I have met Matt on several occasions and I am sure he has a busy enough day that he would see this as a waste of his time...besides I am not sure he could sit still long enough to make a difference...LOL
I have been to his site several times as well...and had at least 10 page hits while I was there...and I have never been in his forum...so how can you reliably decide who is and who is not a cheater without a list of IP's and their respective hits?

I have another question...if anyone can answer it.
With all the worry about cheating the system to get higher ranking...can anyone tell me what kind of volume the LIST is doing FOR these businesses? It HAS to be trackable...

I guess I am just curious whether all the time these "cheaters" spend is actually in vain in the first place...which would make it laughable...or if the volume of traffic directed to them is so large it is worth the hours they might spend watching a screen refresh.

Personally I have only used the list once...and I actually went through it pretty far...looking for websites I haven't seen...not the top25 that everyone has seen before...
 
When I see signs of obvious cheating, it is pretty easy to nail down by taking a look at the domain logs for FaunaTopSites. What I will see is one or two IP addresses that are logging a whole string made in rapid succession of page hits to the target site being monitored via the topsites script. Often I will see a long string of page changes with only 2 seconds between page moves. For a message board system, this is pretty obvious since most people can't read pages that quickly. Now for a photo album or perhaps a classified section, yes, that might be feasible with someone quickly browsing through those kinds of pages.

As for a site logging a whole slew of raw hits with a low number of IP addresses, in some cases that can be possible as well. I have seen several instances of message board sites that seem to have 50 to 90 percent of the traffic coming from less then a half dozen participants. In some cases, I have seen nearly all of the traffic take place with only the moderators involved in discussions. So is this "cheating"? Technically, no, not in my opinion. There is nothing at all that says three or four people can't whip up a message board system and simply use it to talk among themselves as much as they want. That is really up to them, if that is what they want to do.

That being said, I HAVE actually caught some people who have obviously sat in front of their computer and refreshed the screen over and over again. One particularly energetic individual was doing this to the tune of over 7,000 refreshes per day. In most cases like that, I simply remove them from the system after letting them know they have been caught. In others, I may be more subtle about it and tell them that there is something broken in their system making a bunch of bogus hits on the topsites engine and they need to "fix" the problem. Those who take the hint can remain on the listing. Those that don't get booted.
 
Wow...I figured the info was available. I didn't know it was available to the degree of how fast the hits came from a particular IP address.

I can understand then how it would be much easier to catch cheaters...
I have been part of a 3 or 4 person conversation like you described...using a message board...mostly because it is an easy way to have a group conversation that other people, not available at that time, can read and reply to later...it can definitely rack up the hit count, I am sure...never thought about that.

Thanks for the explanation...I was certainly curious and slightly skeptical (ever the Devil's Advocate by nature)...but this makes MUCH more sense to me now.
 
Oh, yeah...

ANYONE who will sit in front of their screen for 7000 refreshes had better find a hobby...

I mean, really...don't they have animals to feed or cages to clean...or SOMETHING?

I guess they don't realize to have an AVERAGE hit count...they would have to do that every single day...sounds like an extreme waste of time to me...
 
Yeah, most cases of cheating are really just a "flash in the pan" situation as it will wear anyone down after a short period of time. I have actually seen cases of cheating where you could tell the main perpetrator took a day or two off to recuperate and then came back at it after the break. Sooner or later they will fall to the wayside when they get tired of it.

As far as I can tell, the purpose of it all is to try to get on, and remain, on the front page of the topsites listing. In some cases, even though I know cheating is taking place, I will allow it to continue just to see how persistent that person is. Then it all becomes wasted effort when I pull the plug on them. :toiletcla

Really, to get on the front page is not all that difficult to do. But getting into the top 10 and staying there would be a real feat for someone with a LOT of perseverance. But these people are missing the entire point of a topsites program. It is a measure of how effective you are in promoting your site and getting people to come to it. It is direct feedback about your efforts to attract visitors. That's why I have both measures visible (raw clicks and unique IPs). The unique IPs will show you how many actual IP addresses (which roughly equates to a unique person per IP) come to your site, whereas the raw hits will tell you approximately how much each person will find of interest on your site. If you see 100 unique IP addresses logged with 1000 raw hits, then each person is looking at an average of 10 pages on your site. That is a good thing. However, if you see 100 IPs and only 100 raw hits, then you have a problem. That means people are coming to only one page on your site, then leaving.

One thing of interest I have noted related to above is that some of these services that offer traffic to your site are really a big waste of money. I have seen some people buy into these things and yeah they will get a lot hits from them, but they are obviously from some kind of hit generator program. Those things will obviously generate unique IP addresses for each raw hit. A friend or mine bought into one of these services and it was very obvious what was going on. There is just no way you would get a 1 to 1 ratio between IPs and raw hits on a site that was a classifieds site with many pages on it. So if you see that sort of service being advertised and think it may be something you are interested in trying, you may want to just save your money. Of course, something like this would be right up a cheater's alley if they want to save wear and tear on the refresh button. :)
 
What I dont understand is why would one do this in the first place? If you as a site owner know the numbers are fake what are you accomplishing? Just an image and ego thing?

That would kinda be like using Photoshop on your bank statement. You can make it look like you have $1,381,254.18 in the bank if you want.... but in reality you still only have $36.67.
 
A topsites listing is a form of advertising. As such most people realize that being on the first page is the most advantageous position to be in because that is the page that will get viewed the most by a casual observer. They apparently really are not interested in USING the program for what it is intended at all. They just want to be on the front page, no matter what. Of course, the thought that someone seeing them cheating might reflect poorly on their opinion of them seems to escape their notice. So in effect, the advertising they get could turn around and be somewhat negative in nature.
 
My site is #10. :)

It's easy to stay high on the list with a forum, people are visiting daily and viewing many pages every time. This is far more traffic than just an informational site that people view once or twice a month and read just a few pages. Good thing I don't pay for bandwidth per mb, I'd be in the poorhouse.
 
Cheating

I just came across this thread, and I have to say I'm pretty upset that I have been accused of cheating on the topsites. I certainly don't have that much spare time to sit and click refresh and I don't have the technical expertise to insert some kind of code to do that for me.

I have the topsites code plugged into my forums which is where the bulk of the pageloads come from. I have 300 unique visitors viewing on average 10-20 pages, that includes checking PM's, user CP, each thread they post in, etc etc.

I am not sure why I have been singled out here, as I see most of the rest of the top 20 or so have the same or similar unique hits to pageload ratio. If Rich or anyone else associated with Fauna thinks I am doing something wrong, I would first of all like to know if there is a way I can clear my name , by giving you access to my site through the server or whatever. Secondly I'll remove the topsites code from the forums if you wish.
 
I am also not as technically inclined as some in the realm of web developing but I notice that when I update my website, be it the available page or even minor tweaks it does make my site jump up about 20-30 positions in the top sites list. Sometimes what appears to be cheating is not always so.
 
I seriously doubt that Matt has the time to stay chained to his computer all day, hitting "refresh" to boost his ratings.

The Pangea Forums are very popular and have a lot of active members. I know that I spend a lot of time on there, skimming through posts and putting in my $.02. If the ratings are up, it's because the site has a healthy member attendance... not because Matt is "cheating".

It's better to do some research on the subject in question before pulling a random name out of a hat that will offend people and potentially cast a shadow on their business. ("Cheating" is not a word someone wants to see in a sentence with their name.) Matt's a good guy who has an active forum... not a ratings psycho who's in love with their "refresh" button.

Just my $.02. ;)
 
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