Dave, Eastern Tennesse Reptiles

[bunker-king-kgb]

I found that this guy had an adult male hogg island boa for sale last year on some classified page.  There was only one thing it had no nose!!  However in all fairness though he said that right in the add.  He also said that a female did it durring breeding.  He also said that it was eating pre-killed rats.  But when I ended up getting it.  I got it out while at work I was checking it out.  While holding it it opened its mouth several times and hissed at me I just thought that it was  mad.  After giving him some time I took a good look at him and man was his nose bad, it looked like it had just happend and that it looked like he mouth rot as well.  He also was a very iffy feeder that was afraid of rats so I offered him mice and no luck so I finally offered live mice and he would eat one every so often.  So I figured after about 3 weeks I should take him to the vet.  One of my freinds happened to specialize in reptiles so I went to her.  It turned out he did have mouth rot, and that hissing and mouth oppening iI mentioned earlier turned out to be a resperatory infection.  In all I was spending lots of money on this snake for vet bills and becoming very irritated, so I tryed  to e-mail him and his e-mail didnt work any more and I had lost all other info on him.  I was very angry, but not at the animal, but at him.  Because he told that it was perfectly healthy, but had lost his lose and it had been sick for some time before i got him.  Well I tryed to sell him and no luck so I ended up giving him to the vet.  I am posting this because I saw him posting on the kingsnake boa forum.  So if you are thinking about getting something from him be very carefull.  I know this is the same guy he posts under the name hogboa.  His pics of his hoggs are very cool but they are hypo x hoggs, not true hoggs.

Just letting everyone know, be cautious
Kyle Phillips

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Kyle...First of all, I really feel sorry for that snake, and I'm glad to see it's with someone who wants to get it better....I applaud you for that....but, I don't think you have any reason to be mad at the seller...he told you it had NO nose....to me, that says that all there is, is no skin and no cartlidge and NO NOSE....now you say it's just "mangled"...then, in this sentence you typed...

...Because he told that it was perfectly healthy, but had lost his lose and it had been sick for some time before i got him....

He told you it was sick for a long time! It might have "looked" healthy when he shipped it, but, with the stress of shipping, that could have easily triggered a relapse in health...I think he was upfront every step of the way...you're just having buyer's remorse....you KNOW you shouldn't have bought it in the first place....and I'm sure you got a pretty good deal, too...huh? The point being...you bought it knowing of all these things....it's yours and he shouldn't be given a bad rap for this...he did nothing wrong or underhanded (from what I can see)....Neil

 

[Rainbowboaman]

Kyle,
Am I understanding this correctly? This happened last year & your just posting about it now? Did you have an email address that ended in chartertn? I purchased some snakes from him last year & had no problems & in June of 2002 I gave his email addy to someone to contact him for help on getting some baby pythons feeding & got ahold of him at the same email addy (not to mention Dave helped him out & got his babies feeding for him) Why did you wait so long to post this & why didn't you post you needed help getting ahold of him on the BOI? Coming on here now saying you had a problem with Dave last year doesn't carry much weight here.
Chris Pearson

 

[HerpVenue]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm glad to see it's with someone who wants to get it better....I applaud you for that</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I disagree.  He was spending lots of money on vet bills so he decided to sell a sick snake.  He says he is spendING...he did not say speNT.  Which to me means the snake was still sick and he tried to sell it.

A snake with no nose is prone to respiratory infections.
He could have been in the process of getting sick BUT looked outwardly healthy at the time of shipping.


1.  The way I see it Dave sold a snake without a nose that looked outwardly healthy.  A snake without a nose that he thought was otherwise healthy.

2.  The way I also see it...Kyle knowingly tried to sell a sick snake.

Judging from those two sentences...I have made up my mind on who the real bad guy is.

Also........Kyle
1.  are you telling us that the hoggs he is selling are crosses?
2.  are you telling us that he is representing them as pure.
3.  do you have proof?
4.  Did you know that Technically hoggs are hypos?  But not all hypos are hoggs.

 

[Gib]

Well Actuallymost of the pics he posts ARE of Hoggs...not crosses.....the only crosses he had were from a litter born earlier this year...just thought I would clarify that...How do I know you ask???cause I have seen most of collection and I saw the Female Hogg that gave birth to the Crosses WHILE she was gravid....even tried to breed one of my females to the father of the same crosses....but no luck...Dave is a real stand up guy and has ALWAYS said that the babies he sold from that clutch were crosses and NOT true Hogg islands....get your facts straight Before you go talking crap about stuff you dont know about....

Chris Gibson

 

[Greg Riso]

Okay, so you want to know what a stand up guy Dave is? I sold him a 3' female albino burm last winter with only half the money up front and he came through and he paid the remainder off in a few weeks. Shortly afterwards I posted a larger 6' male at Kingsnake and Dave e-mailed me asking if he could have him in the same manner. Again I allowed him to put down a partial deposit and pay me off $50 at a time at his convenience. He began to make payments as he could with no prompting or set schedule from me. Sorry, call me naive but I've done this with at least 30 different people even sending animals before receiving ANY payment and have NEVER been burned until now. There are many other things I've done for Dave such as giving him good recommendations here at the BOI even stepping in and bringing peace to a situation between Dave and Ben Sparks. Here's the link on it:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/cgi-bin....+sparks
I've done other things for Dave also but for brevity I won't get into it here. So what's the problem with him now you ask?
Well, a few months after he bought the pair of albino burms I saw them both posted here at Fauna as well as other animals and have seen numerous inquiries here in the wanted section looking for new animals for his collection. I've seen him post at the Kingsnake boa forum about his job advancement and statement about how he'd "now have more money to buy more animals." I've also seen him market an entire clutch of Hypo/Hogg crosses by both himself and Moe at US.Boids. Through all of this I have never requested payment from Dave in any way until now. I've written him three times in the last month requesting we square up our last deal of over six months ago. I realize I'm being a little pushy expecting to be PAID FOR MY ANIMAL IN FULL but after all of this he hasn't even bothered to take the time to respond in any manner whatsoever. He has the time to post numerous pictures at the boa forum, to post a request for an animal he's looking for here at the wanted section. Gee, does it take money to buy an animal? I think if someone's a standup guy he pays his debt before he look for new ones. The clincher here is we're only talking about $50. It's not the amount of money, it's the principle involved so I'd like to see Dave pay up or at least respond to my request as any "good guy" would do. Here's a copy of one of my letters to him. Tell me if I'm expecting to much or am to demanding.

Subj: Final Payment for Albino Burm  
Date: 7/18/2002 7:55<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>7 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: MATRIXNINJA70
To: [email protected]



Hi Dave. I sent you a letter a few weeks ago but never heard back from you. Believe it or not it's been almost six months since I shipped you male albino Burm. I'd  appreciate if we could settle up final payment for the male you received at that time. Thanks a lot and let me know how everything's doing.

Greg
------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe there's an explanation why no response but if there is I'd like to know why. In my book a deal's a deal and my word is worth something. I sincerely doubt if we'll be doing business again.

 

[sexysnake]

Greg,
    Sounds OK to me, very professional I might add.  If he doesn't come through you might want to add a "Wanted" under his "wanted" something like:  
                                      "wanted from Dave my remander payment of $50, if anyone knows how to get let me know!"

       <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
   
     Just an option to you. LOL

Torie Miller

 

[Gary Walsch]

My first question is .... If you purchased a boa without a nose didn't that make you think ?  Even if you knew it upfront ?  Ritchie is right ! a boa without a nose is prone to respirartory infection and that could also be here the mouth rot came from as well.  Why ould you want an animal with such a drastic deformity ?  An animal without a nose but otherwise outwardly healthy ?  I am confused how that didn't stick in your head !  I also think this is a bit of buyers remorse and it should not have been posted in the first place, you made a bad decision to purchase a deformed animal and then wonder why it doesn't act right and can't figure out why it is sick ... by the way how old are you anyway ?


Gary Walsch
Sunshine State Reptiles

Before I forget, I don't know Dave or have no association with him, but this whole thing makes no sense to me.... sorry.

 

[AztecFred]

My two cents. Before Dave had produced those mutt hogg crosses, he had yet to produce any pure hogg island boas.
He will tell you that himself. but he had excellent breeding stock.

Kyle knowingly bought a damaged snake. KNOWINGLY.
He was shocked at the degree of damage. Fair enough, but whose fault is that? If Dave told me that a snake he was going to sel had NO NOSE?  I would have declined to buy it, or if i had bought it realized that what I paid for i got.I knowingly PAID for a damaged snake, I got a damaged snake. Enough said.


That snake is lucky, if he were at my house he would have ended up in the freezer. Now he has a chance at a better life.
Funny how things work out for the good?

Fred
(Aztec Reptiles)

 

[Greg Riso]

Torie, I took your suggestion and posted something after Dave's wanted request so let the flame wars begin! Imagine risking a reputation over $50. Makes you wonder what integrity is worth to some people. I've heard about the horse with no name but a hog without a nose? LOL

 

[BEN SPARKS]

Hi Greg,

You mentioned something about Moe at US Boids selling animals for Dave. I too have wondered about this. I  was interrested in the albino burms you mentioned selling to Dave.
Moe had posted them for sale on kingsnake and I email Moe about them asking the usual questions. He replied back that he had had them about 8 months or so. By this point I saw
Daves add with them for sale. I asked Moe about whether they were Daves and he admitted that they were in fact not his snakes, as he said, but were Daves. He then started asking me if I was just trying to start some crap with him because he knew me and Dave didnt Get along. I told him that me and Dave had settled our differences and I had no matters left standing with Dave BUT that I was concerned that he (Moe) lied to me by telling me the albino burms were his. Needless to say our conversations didnt resolve anything. I dont know if Dave knew Moe was telling prospective buyers the truth about who owned the snake or not. I thought about emailing Dave about the situation but was pretty confident that Moe had already told him something.  One thing I do know is that Dave is not bashfull about telling you that he
needs money and needs it FAST.  Greg, I hope everything gets resolved. When me and Dave were at it I conceded to an
extent. Dave sent me the snake and it was a healthy snake.
As to what my original complaint was back then though, was
never answered and I still stand by my original thoughts. I
think Dave is basically a good guy. I am glad I got the carpet
from him. I think we are at "peace" with eachother. In hind sight though I probably wont be doing business with him in the future. If for nothing else, he says he doesnt have
a bank account or drivers license, that just doesnt set well
for some reason, no matter how long hes been in the game.
Some of you may not agree with my thoughts and that fine.
However my opinion is not going to be changed.
God Bless!!
Ben <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[Darin Chappell]

Too many "Daves" with questionable practices for my feeble mind to keep all the stories straight!  However, anyone who knowingly buys an animal with no nose, knowingly sells it as the same plus a respiratory infection and mouth rot, then complains about the original purchase of the animal a year later(?) . . .may be even more feeble minded than I am.

 

[Greg Riso]

Funny, I still haven't received a word from Dave about the money he owes me. You'd think he would say something here to defend himself but what can he say? Congratulations Dave, you're the first person to stiff me in all of the deals I've ever done. I hope anyone wanting to do business with you thinks twice after reading this. Of course you could do the decent thing and pay up or at least provide an explanation but it would take an honorable person to do so.

 

[[email protected]]

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> Benny Bob Sparks......I told you Dave and I had some projects together,some at my house some at his..Naturally when you ask how long I had them I'm gonna tell you the truth no matter who's house they are at..You nit picking,,start #### at any cost right,dont ever get in my face Sparks I'm telling you...Paranoid you are,picky as hell and you seem like your never happy...I'd advise everyone to be aware of Benny Bob Sparks...................................Dave told me you'd bring this petty crap up sooner or later....My name is perfect,I dont lie,re-lable or misrepresent and yes it pisses me off that you want to bring up mud that stems from....How long have you had the albino burms??I told you how long but I'm lying because they arent at my house,,IT WAS A JOINT PROJECT!!!!!!!....Moe at U.S.Boid..Barry Morrison

 

[John Apple]

Moe
I think the webslave has a language and name calling rule
In other words check yourself
On the topic of this thread I have bought from Dave before and the snake[male spotted python] arrived well and healthy
My dealing with him went smooth <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[HerpVenue]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Benny Bob Sparks......kiss my ass</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Wow...very impressive.  Very proffesional.  I hope your customers read this.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont ever get in my face Sparks I'm telling you...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>another proof of how people can and will talk tough behind a computer.  AMAZING............WAIT is that a veiled threat?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">picky as hell and you seem like your never happy</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Funny....he was just fine with the animals he got from me.  Both times too.

 

[Moderator01]

Moe, I gave you a freebie and edited your post for profanity. However, that's the only one, so try to be a bit more judicious with your choice of words in the future.

Regards,
Moderator01

 

[BEN SPARKS]

Hi Moe,

That was definetly a mouthfull. I"ll try to explain this as simple
as I can.

When I asked you how long you had had the burms, you told
me and mentioned nothing what so ever about them belonging
to Dave, or being part of a "joint project". You stated how long and left me to believe that they were yours.
When I saw Daves add I didnt know at that point if they were
really yours or if they were his, so I emailed and asked. When
I did this is when you started bowing up. I was not thrilled with the fact that I felt that I was lied to , but I assure you
thats the only thing I was not happy about. I did tell you I felt
like you had lied and still feel so. Anytime I feel someone has
lied to me I always tell the person on the outside chance of
a miscommunication.  
 Since then I was told and saw you selling Daves hypo-hogg
crosses with no mentioning in your adds ect... of Dave. I found Daves postings on Kingsnake about them and he was a very proud Daddy (and rightfully so). I dont know if you mentioned to all the buyers who the breeder actually was or not, but I hope so.
You asked me previously if I was just "digging around for dirt"
on Dave. I told you before and say again, NO I am not. Me and
Dave settled our discusion long ago. I ended up buying and the snake arrived healthy and pretty. I did feel uncomfortable
about some other things but the field was leveled as far as I was concerned so I left it at that.
 I'v not been irrate or verbally abusive and dont understand why you feel the need to do so. Yes, I feel you have lied to me and possibly others, thats my opinion. Try to remember that word "opinion". Everyone has got one and no two are exactly alike. My opinion stands and will not wave on this.
 Please do try to be more corgile(sp?) here in front of everyone. There are kids (I consider up to 18 a kid) here and
they dont need to here that kind of language. Instead, show them that two adults can be civalized when not agreeing on
something.
 God Bless
Ben Sparks <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[Darin Chappell]

Based on Moe's particularly unique use of the English language, unusual debating skills, and less-than-flawless logic, can we soon expect Larry, Curly, and possibly Shemp to show up soon?  That would top off this thread nicely.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[Dennis Gulla]

LOL!! Now that was funny, Darin!!

Dennis Gulla