Difficult Questions...

[bcfos]

That is a LOT of new registrations.

Idea:

$10/ annual registration fee/ sitewide; To begin now with new registrants; Existing registrations (all of us) grandfathered in, will have to sign up on their anniversary of initial registration.

After 1 year unless the person pays the annual membership fee, he will not lose the site but it will be a read-only site for him with no posting.

After the first year, the ones who like Fauna will re-sign because they won't be able to stand not posting; others who have just dropped in for one transaction can look (at everything) and when they are moved to post, can pay their ten bucks to become active again.

Warning points (I will try not to get any more of these) set to where 10 points kicks the member out and the person must reregister for another $10. They can keep on doing this, you will net a lot of money off the bad guys.

Continue and expand the Fauna Fund to help pay expensive stuff like programmer's fees (jeez I think we all have the wrong profession, we oughtta be programmers lol).

Kind of like give them the drugs for free then start charging them when they really need their fix? Quite evil don't you think?

Plus how do you think the new people will feel that they had to fork over money where others didn't.

I say just charge Wes and Neil 100 bucks every time they get booted off. That should cover all costs and help you plan for retirement also.

 

[Lucille]

Kind of like give them the drugs for free then start charging them when they really need their fix? Quite evil don't you think?

Plus how do you think the new people will feel that they had to fork over money where others didn't.

I say just charge Wes and Neil 100 bucks every time they get booted off. That should cover all costs and help you plan for retirement also.

No, my idea was serious, and is not evil. Why on earth would you say I was suggesting something evil for a site and people I genuinely like? Maybe not the best idea on the block. Come up with a better one, lil bro.

 

[bcfos]

No, my idea was serious, and is not evil. Why on earth would you say I was suggesting something evil for a site and people I genuinely like? Maybe not the best idea on the block. Come up with a better one, lil bro.

If it ain't broke don't fix it... Which goes for charging for a site that has been free for as long as I can remember. So put up the salvation army pots and go ring your bells else where.........

 

[Gary O]

Rich that I think will take care of that end but be ready for that one person that will make your life hell for stuff posted here about them and they have to pay to defend themselves or just let people slander their names. That is kinda putting them in a corner saying pay the money or let them slander you........

But that aside.

You are in a tough spot. You say you care to much to allow a new admin or more mods on to help you. But then also say if this fails you do not care becuase you tried. Have you thought about taking on a partner?

I have looked at this every which way and I just do not see this as good. I know you are not gonna want to here this but you will see the point.

Someone brought up KS and there ads and you said did they allow free classifieds in the past. I believe so. But the key is the forums part is free. They charge for ads and classifieds and make a pretty penny doing it lol.

I believe if even KS started to charge for the forum part it would knock them down pretty hard.

You have something that is usefull. YOu say the main reason for charging is your time and money. And that if this does not work then it is over. Well Take on a partner. Who knows, just maybe someone would be willing.

I was asked once (not by you) why I do not donate to Fauna to make my site grow. I was like My money goes into my site I have bills just like Fauna. It just does not make sense. This was not posted here but posted publicly on TRR. I am not sure what other forums something like this has been posted on but maybe that is why a few think you are begging. I read the other thread and seen people say you were begging lol. I have never seen "you" beg for money for fauna. This is just an FYI.

Bro you have to sit down and think about this yourself. Stop reading this stuff. And just go with what you choose. If it does not go well then ok if it does ok. But these threads may be hurting things now. If you know what I mean.

 

[Lucille]

If it ain't broke don't fix it... Which goes for charging for a site that has been free for as long as I can remember. So put up the salvation army pots and go ring your bells else where.........

I appreciate the first part; there have been a number of people with that opinion even though it shows somewhat of a financial naivete. But, if that is your honest opinion, by all means voice it.

However, you need not get rude here. We are working together to come up with thoughts and suggestions for the benefit of Fauna, please be mindful of your manners.

 

[WebSlave]

Rich that I think will take care of that end but be ready for that one person that will make your life hell for stuff posted here about them and they have to pay to defend themselves or just let people slander their names. That is kinda putting them in a corner saying pay the money or let them slander you........

Hmm, either I am not writing what I thought I did, or you are not reading what I thought I wrote. Didn't I say that anyone with a bad guy post made against them will be offered a 1 month free access account to the BOI to defend themselves?

And let's face it. If someone is not going to pay the $10 in order to do so, are they really going to be willing to fork over several thousand dollars to retain an attorney to pursue it that way? I can see that now when the attorney says to the possible client, "Let me get this straight, Mr X, you say you want to retain my services to go after a webmaster that wants to charge you $10 to be able to defend yourself on his site? And you refuse to spend that money to do so? Hmmmm..." :laugh:

But that aside.

You are in a tough spot. You say you care to much to allow a new admin or more mods on to help you. But then also say if this fails you do not care becuase you tried. Have you thought about taking on a partner?

Last time I did that was with James Thornton. Remember that fiasco? NEVER again......

I have looked at this every which way and I just do not see this as good. I know you are not gonna want to here this but you will see the point.

Someone brought up KS and there ads and you said did they allow free classifieds in the past. I believe so. But the key is the forums part is free. They charge for ads and classifieds and make a pretty penny doing it lol.

I believe if even KS started to charge for the forum part it would knock them down pretty hard.

But most of the forums here would still be free. Is it just that I am not saying this correctly? Have I had that stroke already and don't even know it??

You have something that is usefull. YOu say the main reason for charging is your time and money. And that if this does not work then it is over. Well Take on a partner. Who knows, just maybe someone would be willing.

Nope. Partnerships are an accident waiting to happen. Even people that get married can't agree for long and wind up hating each other's guts in many instances. No, that just is not going to happen here. There is no scenario I can envision where that would work out.

I was asked once (not by you) why I do not donate to Fauna to make my site grow. I was like My money goes into my site I have bills just like Fauna. It just does not make sense. This was not posted here but posted publicly on TRR. I am not sure what other forums something like this has been posted on but maybe that is why a few think you are begging. I read the other thread and seen people say you were begging lol. I have never seen "you" beg for money for fauna. This is just an FYI.

Nope, I am not begging at all. I am laying the cards on the table. It's either a winning hand or it isn't. I would hate to think I wasted the last 4 years of time, effort and money on this site, but if it proves that I have, then it would be foolish for me to continue along the same route, now wouldn't it? What other future is out there? No matter when I would bring this subject up, I am sure I would hear the same arguments that I am now. So what purpose is served by continuing along with the status quo?

Bro you have to sit down and think about this yourself. Stop reading this stuff. And just go with what you choose. If it does not go well then ok if it does ok. But these threads may be hurting things now. If you know what I mean.

Oh I have thought about this for a long time. Although I never suspected I would have this many registered members or be facing the day when even the fastest and biggest server that I can get may not be enough in the near future, I certainly did not think that this site would not bring at least something in return for my efforts. Back when I was paying a simple $35 per month to host this site, it was easy to think I could do this forever and just keep running it out of my own pocket. Once I found that I had to have my own leased server, things stopped being anywhere near the fun it used to be.

As far as these threads hurting things now, maybe. But that's the way I do things. I explain what is on my mind, my reasons for thinking what I am thinking, and ask for input to evaluate and come up with what seems to be the best solution for all involved. One minor difference this time, is that I am putting myself closer to the top of the consideration totem pole. It's time for me to put some thought about what is good for me for a change.

Or is that consideration reserved for everyone else BUT me?

 

[Gary O]

Oh I read it right my friend. i was saying you know that guy that it comes to that 30 day mark and the thread is dead but then after that the other person starts it up again. You know. Nothing big I think you have the best idea for this though..................


About the rest I totally see where you are coming from.

35.00 huh? Man that must have been the days. To turn it back huh?

I have some questions. And if you do not want to answer them it is ok. I just am wondering

What about the google ads. Are they helping you out? The reason I ask is I help run Excoboards.com. It is a free message board site that gives you a message board for free but you have to have these google ads on it.

The get enough from them ads to pay for two servers. But I am not sure how much they are paying. That is why I ask if they are helping you.

I believe they are pay pure click right? so unless people click them it does no good huh?

 

[Karen Hulvey]

How about this idea? Make it free for one month and then people can decide if they want to pay the $10 to keep using the BOI.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh I read it right my friend. i was saying you know that guy that it comes to that 30 day mark and the thread is dead but then after that the other person starts it up again. You know. Nothing big I think you have the best idea for this though..................


About the rest I totally see where you are coming from.

35.00 huh? Man that must have been the days. To turn it back huh?

I have some questions. And if you do not want to answer them it is ok. I just am wondering

What about the google ads. Are they helping you out? The reason I ask is I help run Excoboards.com. It is a free message board site that gives you a message board for free but you have to have these google ads on it.

The get enough from them ads to pay for two servers. But I am not sure how much they are paying. That is why I ask if they are helping you.

I believe they are pay pure click right? so unless people click them it does no good huh?

Actually I had the google ads turned off until just today. I took them down when I started having severe loading problems on the old server. I tried this a long while back, and from what I recall I ran them for months and finally got a check for $100 unexpectedly in the mail. I haven't really been checking on it at all to see if it is doing anything for me.

From what I can recall, there is no way to tell what you are going to get for running the ads. Yes, you get *something* some of the time, when a viewer clicks on one of those Google ads, but there is no guarantee at all. They say they run some public service ads, which I guess means you don't get anything if someone clicks on them. Never could figure out how they work this. Some ads will get you a nickle, and others might get you a buck. So it is kind of a crap shoot. But heck, I don't have to pay anything to run them, so what the heck? I guess if I thought it would bring in any decent money I would move it closer to the top of the page where more people can see it, but I'm not convinced yet.

Oh I do remember one thing that bothered me about it when I used it previously. Those ads were ALWAYS advertising things like "El Cheapo Web Hosting" or something like that. Irritated me since I am offering my own web hosting, and I figured it was kind of a negative thing to have those ads actually competing against me. I guess it has gotten better, though...

 

[WebSlave]

How about this idea? Make it free for one month and then people can decide if they want to pay the $10 to keep using the BOI.

Sorry, but no. That would defeat one of the major aspects of the membership fee. That is, to keep out the fake registrations. The free trial period would just be an open door to them, and therefore negate some of what I am trying to accomplish.

 

[bcfos]

Ok first off this isn't a porn site, so I don't know what will happen if a membership fee gets mandated. I mean this site offers a service true enough, but not one most people will be willing to pay for. You have to have a value added service to get them to caugh up some cash. Now let me throw this idea into the pot. Make a calander with the hottest chicks on here in some skimpy outfits with different species of snakes. Old perverts like Wes and Neil will buy this up at 10 bucks a pop (no pun intended).. And you could mass market this through the internet and make a dog ass killing. Just an idea..

 

[KelliH]

Ok first off this isn't a porn site, so I don't know what will happen if a membership fee gets mandated. I mean this site offers a service true enough, but not one most people will be willing to pay for. You have to have a value added service to get them to caugh up some cash. Now let me throw this idea into the pot. Make a calander with the hottest chicks on here in some skimpy outfits with different species of snakes. Old perverts like Wes and Neil will buy this up at 10 bucks a pop (no pun intended).. And you could mass market this through the internet and make a dog ass killing. Just an idea..

Now wait a minute. I want a calander with the hottest MEN here on fauna! I'm not going to name names, but there are some real cute guys that post here too!

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

No not if the site is truly costing you that much out of pocket cash. Again though as with most sites it is a volunteer base of its staff not a paid possition so you can not count your time in that equation.

Scott

You have made this statement a few times on this thread and I guess my question is....why? The time that Rich spends on this site is automatically time away from revenue producing activities. Of course he has to factor his time spent into any calculation he comes up with for revenues necessary to make that time investment worthwhile.

My suggestion Rich is to implement a flat $10 annual fee to view and post on the BOI and to post classifieds. Leave the Forums and other areas free. The BOI is a valuable tool that has prevented more than one of us from getting stung. To those who do not value these resources enough to justify the fee....don't let the door......you know

 

[Gary O]

I think Scott is ssaying look at the rest of the Message boards that have a server that keep their message boards free........

RTB.net
sSnakeSs
Now TRR

None of these admins or mods on these sites are paid. If any of them admins was pulling a profit(with pay site) would it be right NOT to pay the mods then?

There are I think 3 other mods here. Now my next part is just numbers and in no way mean that Rich would pull in this much are that he would do this lol......

But lets say that 10,000 members decide that Rich is right and pay the 10 bucks a year. That equals 100,000 dollars. Now this site comes no where close to costing that. So would he offer a % to the mods say a 5% or 10% of the profit sence they to are here helping with everything they can?

I am not slamming Rich I am just trying to point out something.

I have been doing this for over 2 years for TRR. Over 3 Years with TDS(a football site) and I love it still to this day. All costs have come out of my pocket. I have recieved one 10 dollar donation to my site. and that was awesome and I thank that member!!!!!!!!!

How much have I put into TRR.....Not as much as Rich has here I know. But also I do all the programming too as Rich as said he hires out to do it. Which is what works for him.

Rich do not take that as a slam I was just trying to explain what Scott was saying

 

[TooManyBurmese]

I for one wouldn't mind if he added a porn forum. I agree with Robin too hee hee.

If he was thinking $10, I don't think any of the points made have any sway at all. People defending their name, new members, blah blah.

Come on, it's freakin $10. If you have the money to be properly caring for your living animals, you had better have $10. Or even $35!

 

[Gary O]

I for one wouldn't mind if he added a porn forum. I agree with Robin too hee hee.

If he was thinking $10, I don't think any of the points made have any sway at all. People defending their name, new members, blah blah.

Come on, it's freakin $10. If you have the money to be properly caring for your living animals, you had better have $10. Or even $35!

The problem comes down to you have to pay it to defend yourself..............

So it is 10 bucks.... I bet someone would spend it to get to someone. But that someone comes here and gets the 30 days free to defend himself and the problem still is there with the other member posting lie after lie. But the guy that came to defend his BUSINESS has to either pay to protect his name from this slander or hope that this slander and lies do not hurt his business.

I think the person being forced to pay may have more legal right then to tell Rich. Remove my name from them threads or or I will sue. ANd I think there is a case. I spoke to one guy that kinda knows laws and he said the same thing.

10 bucks is not a lot. but it is enough to kill the site. you are missing the point.

You have your ones that will pay. Lets put it at 200.............

The BOI loses the draw becuase people will not pay to post in it. They just got scammed. Why would they spend more money to post that they just got scammed? That is what they will think right after it happened. and with out the member base here anylonger will the BOI have the same effect so this thing everyone is saying is worth it will it be then?

I am wondering how many of the 16000 plus do not even visit anymore or that are double names. Shoot even triple names. Just wondering.


People like free...............People hate to pay. Now with the way things are....People with out jobs and what not money is tight. Yeah I know it is 10 bucks. But you say it is enough to scare away the spammers. Well money scares away people.............

The BOI draws people to the site. That is the main thing charging will knock that draw down........IMO...

There are other ways and I have read some. IMO I say start with the Classifieds. Cause if that does not work you damn well know that the overall will not and you do not go through all this stress............

 

[Mustangrde1]

Ill make my point very clear. I am a member on numerous boards from reptiles to hunting and fishing and NONE -0- Zilch charge their member nor do the staff of the sites get paid for their VOLUNTEER time on the site hence the word VOLUNTEER. Why because it is a hobby or something of interest to them and they just want to help. I actually went looking around for sites that charge the members to post and there aint many. Why simple Because for every one that charges there are 100 that do not.

 

[WebSlave]

Good. So I am going to buck the trend. Not follow the crowd. Do what I think is best. So those other webmasters "just want to help", eh? So help is just a one way street, I guess.

I think I have stated my cases sufficiently. If the majority of the people decide to not pay, and that their refusal to pay a measily $10 per year to post on the BOI and the classifieds is sufficient reason for them to leave this site, then good riddance. If enough people feel this way that the entire site goes down the tubes, then good riddance to that as well.

I REALLY don't care either way. Once I determine that the writing is on the wall for this site to go the way of the dinosaurs, then I will stop accepting all new banner ads and any other paid service or contribution here, and once those have all expired, I wil simply pull the plug and get on with something else to spend my time and efforts on. Things like spending time with my wife instead of sitting in front of this computer handling one issue after another.

So like Clint Eastwood once said, "Go ahead. Make my day."

Or maybe it was Briar Rabbit (or whatever), "Please don't throw me into that briar patch!"

 

[WebSlave]

The problem comes down to you have to pay it to defend yourself..............

So it is 10 bucks.... I bet someone would spend it to get to someone. But that someone comes here and gets the 30 days free to defend himself and the problem still is there with the other member posting lie after lie. But the guy that came to defend his BUSINESS has to either pay to protect his name from this slander or hope that this slander and lies do not hurt his business.

I think the person being forced to pay may have more legal right then to tell Rich. Remove my name from them threads or or I will sue. ANd I think there is a case. I spoke to one guy that kinda knows laws and he said the same thing.

10 bucks is not a lot. but it is enough to kill the site. you are missing the point.

Sure. And hiring an attorney is going to be MUCH cheaper then paying $10 here. Yup. Makes sense to me.

You have your ones that will pay. Lets put it at 200.............

The BOI loses the draw becuase people will not pay to post in it. They just got scammed. Why would they spend more money to post that they just got scammed? That is what they will think right after it happened. and with out the member base here anylonger will the BOI have the same effect so this thing everyone is saying is worth it will it be then?

I am wondering how many of the 16000 plus do not even visit anymore or that are double names. Shoot even triple names. Just wondering.

Don't really care. If it comes to a choice of 200 people willing to pay and 15,800 freeloaders who won't, then my choice is really tough to make.

People like free...............People hate to pay. Now with the way things are....People with out jobs and what not money is tight. Yeah I know it is 10 bucks. But you say it is enough to scare away the spammers. Well money scares away people.............

Tough for them, then. I'm not getting the servers for free. I am supposed to donate MY money for all eternity? My time and efforts are valueless? My time could be applied to something that would help to put food on the table, or buy me something nice once in a while. Or I could just take the time with all of that now free time if I dumped this site and take a walk out in the woods. Maybe even look for a snake now and again.

The BOI draws people to the site. That is the main thing charging will knock that draw down........IMO...

Anyone who sees a $10 fee as an insurmountable hurtle to post something they feel is important on the BOI must not have a lot of faith on how important it really is then. Of course, this tends to make me feel that making the $10 fee covering BOTH posting and reading the forum might be the most reasonable approach. That way the person trying to decide if the $10 per year is really worth it will get a whole lot more for their money. For $10, they get to READ the wealth of information already there.

There are other ways and I have read some. IMO I say start with the Classifieds. Cause if that does not work you damn well know that the overall will not and you do not go through all this stress............

Sorry, my opinion differs from yours based on feedback I have gotten from this very site over the years. Many people have claimed that they really don't make that many sales off of the classifieds here. Very well. So why should I charge only them and shishkabob the classifieds in the process? Actually the ONLY reason I am including the classifieds along with the BOI for the fee is because I think it is prudent to but a bit of credibility into the people who are posting classified ads there. Doesn't make sense to demand a bit of credibility of people posting on the BOI, yet allow them to post classified ads unhindered, now does it?

 

[Lucille]

I would not be buying cruise tickets yet if I were you. The final poll is overwhelmingly in favor of paying to post on the BOI. I think in the threads there were a couple of people willing to provide sponsorships, but I do believe that the vast majority of people can easily pay the $10; and I absolutely believe that this site is worth it, and $10 for a year of Fauna and the BOI is the best deal in the Universe!