Do Blue Pac-Man Frogs have shorter lifespans?

[anilaky]

I bought this 3 year old male Pac-Man a while back, I'm trying to sell him for $250 because I'm going to college and A) that's a pretty good price for a full grown male , B) he's healthy, and C) he's not a fake samurai blue (apparently some Japanese people ran a scam where they sold green frogs fed some algae powder or something, I know for a fact that in the entire time I have had him he has had nothing but waxworms, earthworms, crickets, and other worms).

I have a potential buyer who is trying to offer me way less because he sees baby blue pac-mans online for $60-$90. He is trying to offer me less by claiming that the blues don't live as long, having a lifespan of 3-4 years. Obviously I don't want to rip off my buyer but I haven't found any sources or professionals that say that and he hasn't presented any specific sources. Is there anyone who can vouch for this fact before I tell him I won't accept his offer? I'll post pics soon, not that they matter but I guess if people just want to look

 

[Dyscophus antongilii]

I bought this 3 year old male Pac-Man a while back, I'm trying to sell him for $250 because I'm going to college and A) that's a pretty good price for a full grown male , B) he's healthy,

I see.

and C) he's not a fake samurai blue (apparently some Japanese people ran a scam where they sold green frogs fed some algae powder or something,

I would like to see some documented sources on that. Since, I have heard mixed reviews on that, truthfully.

I know for a fact that in the entire time I have had him he has had nothing but waxworms, earthworms, crickets, and other worms).

That is a very healthy diet, in my humble opinion.

I have a potential buyer who is trying to offer me way less because he sees baby blue pac-mans online for $60-$90.

I have as well. I have seen small ones for even less then $60.00 at various reptile expo. Yes, they came from vendors I would purchase from.

He is trying to offer me less by claiming that the blues don't live as long, having a lifespan of 3-4 years.

I would like to start off by saying, what follows is my opinion, based off of personal experience. I.E. take it for what it is worth. Quite possibly a grain of salt. I am NOT sure they have that short of a life span. However, they do have a MUCH shorter lifespan. I suspect that is due to line breeding and or limited genetics. But, they often have poor genetics, when compared to almost ever other color mutation.

Obviously I don't want to rip off my buyer but I haven't found any sources or professionals that say that and he hasn't presented any specific sources.

Truthfully, I am not sure you will. Since, like I said, it is just the person experience of people who have kept them.

But, I would NOT give you much more then $100.00 plus shipping for a blue male. I will admit that I am NOT into color mutations. But, the blues do seem to have poorer genetics then any other color mutation.

Is there anyone who can vouch for this fact before I tell him I won't accept his offer?

I do not really understand what you mean by that part. But, I would not consider your asking price fair without picture's. Since, unless, your specimen is that exceptional, a male just isn't worth what you are asking.

Of course, that is just my opinion and you can and should take it with a grain of salt. Plus, of course, like anything else, a blue C. crawnwelli is only worth what the market will bear/bare.

I'll post pics soon, not that they matter but I guess if people just want to look

Personally, in this particular case, I feel it is very important. Since, the colour will greatly affect the price.

Yes, we do always like to see picture too!!!

 

[anilaky]

I think I figured out how to post pictures, if they don't work you can text me at(817)550-7888.
I texted Mike Matson of Mike's Phat Frogs and he said he has had several, and one of his just died at the age of 12 and he didn't seem to think there was anything that would make them live for a short amount of time. He gave me the price he said he would sell a frog like mine at, but that it is hard to do what with the general controversy around the blues.

The reason he was priced so high is because I didn't have anything to go off of to price him except the price I bought him for a while ago. Online, there are baby Blues, but they're babies and they really just look green to me. Some of them I can't even see why anybody would call them blue. Some of the others look photoshopped and I have heard from several people that 2 weeks after getting the frogs from online places the frogs revert to green/teal. I can't find any adults for sale online, and if I do, certainly nothing that even comes close to his color. So I figured I'd price him at $250 and see by people's reactions if I needed to raise or lower the price. At that point that was the only thing I could do. Regardless, I didn't need to know if the price was good. I've had several people tell me one way or another what price he should be, and I even offered the buyer in question a significantly lower price but would not reduce him down to the price of a "blue" baby from some undisclosed online store that doesn't even have them in stock, all for a claim that he refused to provide evidence for, and that I couldn't find any opinions on online.

I actually got 4 people looking into him for the $200-$250 price range but they were scared by what everyone else was saying about it being a scam. Oh well.
What I meant by the sentence you didn't understand is, basically asking if anyone thought the lifespan thing had any truth before I told the buyer there isn't any evidence to back it up and therefore I won't take that as a reason for lowering the price.

I have told my buyer I'm keeping him for breeding purposes. Might as well give it a shot myself to see what happens. I think the fact that he has retained so much of his blue into adulthood (something apparently most blues don't do) makes him special. I know it's hard to get the gene to pass on, but the worst that can happen is I end up with some nice little green or wild type babies from him. I'll see what happens. Mike Matson told me where the frog originated from and told me it was from the original Japanese lines, something about having a blue pinstripe (which I didn't understand). Found someone to take care of him and my Strawberry pineapple while I live on campus freshman year, once I get out I'm immediately looking for a teal female and I'll breed him.

 

[Dyscophus antongilii]

I think I figured out how to post pictures, if they don't work you can text me at(817)550-7888.

The pictures did post. Thank you, for posting them.

I texted Mike Matson of Mike's Phat Frogs and he said he has had several, and one of his just died at the age of 12 and he didn't seem to think there was anything that would make them live for a short amount of time.

I am NOT going to turn this thread into a BOI. But, I would highly recommend, you actually check out the BOI's of the person you are using as a "reliable source". That is all I have to say.

He gave me the price he said he would sell a frog like mine at, but that it is hard to do what with the general controversy around the blues.

How about you ask him what would he buy the frog for? Or, how about this: would you spend X amount on that frog? I would LOVE to hear his response.

The reason he was priced so high is because I didn't have anything to go off of to price him except the price I bought him for a while ago.

Again, all I can say is this: any animal is worth what the market will bear/bare.

Online, there are baby Blues, but they're babies and they really just look green to me.

Could you show me the ones you found online?

Some of them I can't even see why anybody would call them blue.

I can't really comment without seeing the specimens you are referencing. It could be a "marketing ploy". At least, that is a possibility in my humble opinion.

Some of the others look photoshopped

Unfortunately, I am sure that is VERY possible!

and I have heard from several people that 2 weeks after getting the frogs from online places the frogs revert to green/teal.

Me too, unfortunately. I am NOT clear on why that is. Are you?

I can't find any adults for sale online, and if I do, certainly nothing that even comes close to his color. So I figured I'd price him at $250

I will be the first to admit your specimen is very very pretty.

and see by people's reactions if I needed to raise or lower the price.

I see. Sounds logical to me.

At that point that was the only thing I could do.

Again, that sounds very logical to me.

Regardless, I didn't need to know if the price was good.

I see. I apologize for the miscommunication.

I've had several people tell me one way or another what price he should be,

Again, I apologize for the miscommunication regarding looking for pricing.

and I even offered the buyer in question a significantly lower price but would not reduce him down to the price of a "blue" baby from some undisclosed online store that doesn't even have them in stock,

I definitely do NOT blame you on that one.

all for a claim that he refused to provide evidence for, and that I couldn't find any opinions on online.

Again, I completely understand and agree with your point of view, on that particular issue.

I actually got 4 people looking into him for the $200-$250 price range but they were scared by what everyone else was saying about it being a scam.

I am a bit of a "frog nut" and I will admit your particular specimen is very "pleasing to the eye". I.E., is very physically attractive.

What I meant by the sentence you didn't understand is, basically asking if anyone thought the lifespan thing had any truth before I told the buyer there isn't any evidence to back it up and therefore I won't take that as a reason for lowering the price.

I see. Thank you, for the clarification. I think it depends on the source of your blue Ceratophrys cranwelli. I also feel it has to do with your personal experience with this colour mutation.

I have told my buyer I'm keeping him for breeding purposes.

I do not blame you. Since, you have a very attractive male, in my humble opinion.

Might as well give it a shot myself to see what happens.

That is a very good outlook. What colour mutation do you intend to breed him to? Are you aware of how the blue phenotype is produced?

I think the fact that he has retained so much of his blue into adulthood (something apparently most blues don't do) makes him special.

I am NO EXPERT, but, I do agree your specimen kept a lot of the blue colour mutation into adulthood. How much blue is normally lost with age, is NOT something I can speak of.

II know it's hard to get the gene to pass on, but the worst that can happen is I end up with some nice little green or wild type babies from him.

That is completely true and you have the right view, in my humble opinion, when it come to trying to breed blue C. crawnwelli.

I'll see what happens.

Please let us know what happens. Since, I am very very interested in the results.

Mike Matson told me where the frog originated from

He knows that how? Did you purchase the frog from him?

and told me it was from the original Japanese lines,

Again, did he produce the animal? If not, how does he know that?

something about having a blue pinstripe (which I didn't understand).

I can explain that to you. If you want. Well, I can try and explain it to you.

Found someone to take care of him and my Strawberry pineapple while I live on campus freshman year, once I get out I'm immediately looking for a teal female and I'll breed him.

I am glad you found some to take care of your collection freshman year. If you want, to make a thread, of your colour mutatiom Ceratoohrys crawnwelli, I would not mind seeing them.

 

[anilaky]

The ones I have found can be looked at by a google for them. They are from Mike's Phat Frogs himself, Snakes at Sunset, and LLL reptile to name the main ones.

The information about the green/scams etc was found out by a HUGE conversation on the comments of the local Facebook reptile classifieds page I posted him on. Several people that have various specimens told me about the green.
The reason for the blue babies reverting to green within two weeks is that many of them are fed an algae powder of some sort, which causes them to look like they have a blue phenotype, when, however, genetics predispose it to be green. Somewhat how like flamingos are only pink because of their shrimp intake. The buyers don't realize that they need to be fed the algae powder to retain the blue, and so their specimens revert to green because they don't have the powder that is causing them to be blue.

As for why he knows about the frogs, he claimed he invested thousands of dollars in the original line of the blues, and he even told me the pet store that the frog came from, which makes me sure he produced it.
He used the same EXACT wording as you when you said "what the market will bear/bare."
Since you don't want to turn this into a BOI (understandable XD) you can text me for screenshots of my messages with him.
The max price he gave me was $125, not because the frog wasn't worth more, but because of the large amount of controversy surrounding the mutation dragging the price down.

 

[Dyscophus antongilii]

The ones I have found can be looked at by a google for them. They are from Mike's Phat Frogs himself, Snakes at Sunset, and LLL reptile to name the main ones.

Okay, I was just curious. Since, well, that is all I could find. But, that doesn't mean much.

Thanks again, for your time and thoughtful response.

The information about the green/scams etc was found out by a HUGE conversation on the comments of the local Facebook reptile classifieds page I posted him on.

Those are the type of conversations that make me actually wish I had a Facebook account.

Several people that have various specimens told me about the green.The reason for the blue babies reverting to green within two weeks is that many of them are fed an algae powder of some sort, which causes them to look like they have a blue phenotype, when, however, genetics predispose it to be green.

Wow, that shows how unscrupulous some people really are. Or, maybe, a better way to say it is this: how desperate and dishonest some people are/can be when making a sale.

I had heard about what you described above years ago. I am getting old and apparently my memory is "failing". So, thank you, for the reminder. Enjoy your youth while you can. It goes so quickly!

Somewhat how like flamingos a are only pink because of their shrimp intake.

In my humble opinion, that is a fantastic analogy.

The buyers don't realize that they need to be fed the algae powder to retain the blue, and so their specimens revert to green because they don't have the powder that is causing them to be blue.

Unfortunately, that makes perfect sense to me. Do you happen to know, since, you know more about blue C. crawnwelli then me, if, the specimen needs to have a genetic predisposition to the blue colour? Or, can the algae powder "turn any green specimen blue"?

As for why he knows about the frogs, he claimed he invested thousands of dollars in the original line of the blues, and he even told me the pet store that the frog came from, which makes me sure he produced it.

So, Mike, MIGHT have started to become honest. Or, at least, somewhat more realistic. Since, his explanation about why he knows about the blue C. crawnwelli seems accurate.

I am sure, if, he know the store that your specimen came from, then, he produced it. I also have to him credit. Since, he produced a fantastic specimen.

He used the same EXACT wording as you when you said "what the market will bear/bare."

Wow...not sure what else to say about that...

Since you don't want to turn this into a BOI (understandable XD) you can text me for screenshots of my messages with him.

I will definitely do that tonight. Do you want me to PM you my number first? Thanks for understanding about me not wanting to turn this into BOI.

The max price he gave me was $125, not because the frog wasn't worth more, but because of the large amount of controversy surrounding the mutation dragging the price down.

That is a very fair price. I would have given you $150.00 for him only because of the controversy surrounding them. Not because your specimen is lacking anything. He is great looking!

 

[anilaky]

My number is (817)550-7888 if you'd like to message more! And as much as I love reading BOI's I definitely never ever want to be involved in one!

 

[Jawsofafrog]

There is one for sale this size at Underground Reptiles, I liked it but I was not interested in buying a C. cranwelli because I bought cb C. cornuta instead. Yours looks mighty similar in appearance to the adult they have.

 

[anilaky]

I don't see it in their online store, were you visiting a physical location where you saw it? Do you have any pictures?

 

[Jawsofafrog]

I don't see it in their online store, were you visiting a physical location where you saw it? Do you have any pictures?

Yes I was there at their store, I live in the area. It was as large as yours and I didn't take pictures..