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Eastern Indigo Hatchlings

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This person just seems to think that if there are some for sale, then they must be overpriced. And of course, they must not sell for the going rate if the largest producer of couperi in the country actually has some in stock. :eek:
 
Hey Wes,...is that one of mine? Looks very good!

As for calling Marcia an idiot,...well,...I call'em like I see'em. And I do not resort to name calling very often. In fact this is a first. Anyone who reads this thread can, and probably would draw the same conclusion. And none of us are trying to win a debate or emerge victorious from this mess. Were just trying to get through that thick skull of yours! But now I don't think that's possible. I think your mind is made up. The only way it will ever change is for you to jump through the same hoops that I have, and experience what I have ,as far as acquiring, raising, breeding, hatching, starting, selling, and loosing couperi. You just won't get it unless you walk a mile in my moccasins. But you won't do that, because,...once again,...you are too stubborn. You'd rather bitch about it endlessly. You want to stir up a big stink, and continue to plink away at your computer for hours and hours, and page after page of incorrect rationalizations, and flawed logic,... and argue with those who HAVE walked mile after mile in those moccasins. So yes,...you are an idiot. And I'd be willing to bet that I know why you have a diamond ring that you want to trade for couperi. I'd bet that your former future husband flew the coop because he got sick and tired of your ignorance and stubbornness, and your know it all attitude. In fact he was so sick of it, that he didn't even want the ring back did he. As for couperi, I'm glad you don't have any. The species does not need people like you. It needs dedicated breeders who are willing to LEARN. It is unfortunate that you even got into Texans. Somebody like you would be better off with morphmutts. I don't know which is worse, your ignorance, or your arrogance. When someone who knows nothing about a subject argues endlessly with those who do, and they refuse to get some couperi, and figure out what we are trying to tell them,and they go on and on for page after page...then yes,... that person qualifies for the status of IDIOT! And quite possibly a few other choice names. So do us all a BIG favor,...DON"T EVER get couperi! As for your diamond ring, I think you know what I'm thinking you should do with that. And now that I think about it, maybe I'll raise my prices to $2000 each for neonate couperi, just to make sure I keep you out of them. Now do us all a favor and go free handle a Mamba or something. As for me, I'm done with this. There is no point in talking to someone who already knows it all. Adios.
T.
T.
 
Now if we could just get Tony to stop being so shy and reserved. ;)
 
Well, at least this gives some insite into the mind of the Eastern keeper.. Here's what started this whole thread:

Do you produce a huge number of these every year or is this just a snake that's very hard to sell as I've seen you listing them for months now.. I'm asking because while I'm very interested in getting a trio of them I don't wanna deal with a snake that can't be sold.. Also, what is the reason for such a raise in price as I would guess that it's not demand due to you having to place so many ads to sell them.. I'm not being rude here so please don't take it that way, I'm honestly interested but just don't have the time to post ad after ad to sell a snake that doesn't produce large numbers of eggs as it is..

Seems like these are all valid points and questions.. There are currently four people trying to sell easterns on kingsnake.. Some, like Cliff Miller only had 5 or 6 animals and are still posting ads.. These same people have been posting for months now, in some cases 4 months!

I think the response I've gotten to these questions from somebody new to Drys is paramount to my points mentioned later.. You can't answer why the price has gone up, you deny that the snakes don't sell despite the same people trying over and over again to sell them..

Honestly, I now understand why Doug isn't going to work with them anymore and why the snakes don't sell.. There's a reason that people get this deffensive about something, if I didn't have valid points you would be content just ignoring them..

You have my word, I WILL NEVER WORK WITH EASTERNS!!!
 
We did answer why the price has gone up. You're just too stubborn, or stupid to let it sink in. Either that or you aren't paying attention.

Don't try and judge how well they sell by watching the classifieds. That's not an accurate method.They sell just fine. But you'll never know, because you won't try it. Although you did want to try it when you posted an add wanting to trade a diamond ring for couperi. Now you are just bent out of shape because nobody would trade with you. And even if they don't sell fast, I don't mind. I'm content to keep every couperi I produce. I don't breed them to make money. I breed them because I love them. Although, like I keep telling you,...I have folks pestering me for couperi all the time. You seem to be overtly preoccupied with selling them, and making money. We told you,...couperi isn't a good species to raise for profit. The overhead is too high, and propagating this species is very problematic, especially when a female dies from egg binding. You say you'll never work with easterns,...GOOD!!! I'll remember you said that. You'll NEVER BUY ANY FROM ME!!! Now go play with your diamond ring and stick your head down a rattlesnake burrow!

It is unfortunate that someone as thick headed as yourself has acquired any drymarchon at all. You should stick to garter snakes, or something extremely deadly, and aggressive. We could only hope to be that lucky. Of all the people posting on this thread YOU are the only one who is wrong. For whatever reason you just don't see it. And YOU are the only one who doesn't see it. Or maybe you do but you're just in denial. You remind me of the guy who posted a pic of himself free handling a cottonmouth with his bare hands, and asking, "is this a good idea"? Then when everyone told him what a stupid thing to do that was,...and gave him numerous reasons why it was a stupid thing to do, he got all bent out of shape, and wanted to argue with everyone. He was the only one who didn't get it after several pages of testimony from people who know. JUST LIKE YOU! You should get together with him. I think you two would make a great couple. Maybe you could free handle venomous snakes together, and kill two idiots with one snake. Bye,
T.
 
Well T, somebody is going to have to use their brain and point out that this is all a moot point.. I have purchased Texas as I'm not really into any snake that has 4 breeder at a time trying to sell them.. I don't want to make money, I just don't want to advertise the same snake over and over again.. You're clearly unable to understand this but even so I'll accepts that it is myself who is the thick headed one..

I'll just assume you're no longer reading as you're clearly more interested in making your point then understanding anothers.. I have texasindigos.com and will use it to further the hobby and help others.. Not sure what you have done to help people in this hobby..

It has also been made painfully clear why it is myself who is wrong.. In this thread alone we have one breeder trying to sell a snake and now two others saying they just give them away.. It is very hard to price match free.. This is clearly the reason why the snakes won't sell for money and the reason for the price going up by the people who are trying to make money with them..

I will call this issue closed as I would have to start naming the people I've talked to working with and trying to sell these snakes to back up any further points.. I will consider your shear amount of time spent talking about this enough justification for my assumption that my points are valid...
 
Well Marcia,
I don't know why these guys advertise over and over again. It's really not necessary. If you have great animals and a good reputation, the animals will sell themselves. I know you don't understand this, but a few years down the road, you will. If you have the intestinal fortitude to stick with it like Robert has.

You are in for a big surprise, and some serious disappointment. Texas indigos are just as precarious and expensive to produce and sell as easterns. It's basically the same snake. You are going to have all the same problems and heartbreaks as me. They will eat you out of house and home. They will take up a lot of space. They will require a lot of maintenance, and work EVERY DAY. Females will, after months and months of waiting, either die from egg binding, or give you a bunch of slugs, if they lay anything at all. You will have difficulty finding, unrelated animals to maintain genetic diversity in your collection. You will wait 4 years, at least for them to be big enough to breed. You'll throw away tons of dead pinkies, and fish trying to get the babies to start feeding,...if you get any babies at all,...if you can even get the adults to breed at all. You'll spend an enormous amount of money on your feed bill. You'll pull your hair out trying to diversify their diet. You'll have gobs of people pestering you for babies. Your competitors will be charging more money than you,...and getting it. You won't make a profit, and you'll be lucky to break even. The only real difference that you will experience is the Federal and local permits associated with couperi. You won't have all the problems and expense caused by that. But you will run into idiots who think they know it all, even though they don't. And they will argue, and argue, and argue,....

Yes some of us do occasionally give some away. We may as well, because we don't really make any profit anyway. Personally I have not yet given any away, but I have two zoos, and one private individual waiting for a baby from me this year or next, with more to follow. The Atlanta Zoo, Bush Gardens, in Tampa, and B.W. Smith who will get his female this year. I am also working on an artificial insemination project in order to help diversify the captive gene pool. If we did not give them away, many places would not have them. So when I give away some, I have to charge more for the rest of them so I can recover that loss. And I am donating $200 each from the sale of every baby to Indigos Forever so we can pay for things like the genetic survey currently being done by Matt Rand, and we can build a better website, and we can educate folks, donate more animals to more zoos, and we can go into the field and do wild surveys, studies, and help the Nature Conservancy purchase land for habitat. These are the things that I have been working on, not to mention the trips to local schools this year, and answering countless questions from folks. Oh and the artwork I am creating and donating to make T-shirts for sale, the proceeds for which to put back into the organization Indigos Forever, for all of the above. I also belong to The Gopher Tortoise Council, and I donate to the Nature Conservancy. I am constantly looking for ways to help this species, and to help others working with this species.

Your points are totally invalid. You have no clue what you are doing or what you are talking about. You have absolutely no experience with this species. And yet you come here where you are surrounded by folks who do have that experience and knowledge, make an ass of yourself, and refuse to listen to those who DO know what they are talking about. But I have taken the time to try and educate you, even though it seems to go in one ear, and right out the other side, because you already know it all. That's OK. though, because working with Texans you will learn that everything I have told you is true. Wether or not you ever accept it, or admit it to yourself,...is another story. But the market price for Texans and the associated expenses, are in line with, and heading in the same direction as couperi. The longer I work with this species, the more I'm thinking $2000 for a hatchling would actually be a fair price, and the same for Texans. And I am confident that if we all bumped it up to that, we would still be able to sell our babies. And we still wouldn't be getting rich. Hell,...Robert has had his utilities cut off because he couldn't pay the bill! If you disagree that's fine. With time, you will hopefully learn. If you do learn, you'll be forgiven. If you don't, I won't loose any sleep over it because you'll still be an idiot. My shear amount of time spent on this is not because your points are valid,...it's because they are totally invalid, and I don't want others to be as ignorant as you.
T.
 
Tony and Marcia...

As entertaining as this thread is... :2hammers: ...its starting to remind me of a '50s romantic comedy. :rotflmao:

Maybe you two need to get together for drinks or something! :beer:

:dgrin: LOL - JUST KIDDING!!! :dgrin:

Actually, I'd like to make the following requests:

Marcia - Please post pics of your new Texans - show us what you got! :)

Tony - Nazza posted a beautiful pic of a :smokin: HUGE male Eastern on the Indigo/Dry Forum. How about it, got one that size? ;)

:IThankYou Peace!

John D
 
O.k., I think there is a pic of Mongo on there somewhere, and he is even bigger now. But I'll put one up for ya.

And I'd like to make the following {{{FINAL}}} note; from me at least. LoL

I can remember when I had the same opinion as Marcia,...and expressing it,...and getting flamed for it,...and being called a few names for it too. It's been a couple years. But at one time I did have the same ideas. My opinion has obviously been changed. It was changed by experience and time. I'd be willing to bet that after she has done the dry thing for a couple years, her opinion will change, and she will be flaming somebody else for expressing the same opinion. It may just become a right of passage for the more stubborn of us. And I fully admit being both stubborn and ornery. And I would expect anyone to charge whatever price they see fit for the animals they produce. The people who {{do}} or {{don't}} buy them will decide if they, or we, or me get that price. And like I said before. If mine don't sell, I'll be happy to keep them. No matter how much it costs, because I love them. Period.
T.
 
While I thank you all for the "help" and information I would call myself fairly educated on snakes.. I would say when it comes to snakes I'm at 50% and while there is a lot of room for growth having kept 500 snakes at a time and working with 20+ different types at a time all with different needs I welcome a challange..

In fact, the smallest of the Texans I purched was only interested in eating a snake.. Granted it was early on to have any real worry I enjoy the fact that one of the three wanted to be picky.. I tossed a baby corn in there just yesterday and sure as can be she jumped all over it! I sort of pinched off the section of the corn snake the TX had grabbed and as she was working her way to the head of the corn swapped a pinky in its place.. She ate that one without issue and took the next without thought or the help of the corn snake!

Anyway, I understand what you're saying and in this market I think the Drys should be $10,000, hell if a ball is worth that the dry should get 10x that!! However putting my value on a snake doesn't sell it.. You can't spend hours telling me the woas of a snake then try to justify a higher price! That's like telling me how costly your Yugo is to keep running and then telling me that's why you're asking a lot for it! This is, has and will always be the snake that money motivated people just don't want to deal with!

Anyway, that's that, those are my views and it's not gonna change anytime soon.. I'll work with the snakes, thank those of you trying to help and let those of you that just wanna fight wake up as yourself as there's little I can wish on you that would be worse:)
 
As a side note, I know corn snakes, even adults are worthless in this market!


indigoeating.jpg

indigoeating2.jpg

indigoeating3.jpg
 
Sigh.

Ok...I've read this thread and I really can't take this self-absorbed crap any more. DesertHerper, you really need to get over yourself. If you disagree with what others tell you, then ignore it. If you don't want to pay the prices offered, then don't buy one. If you really want one, then you will. Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. Not my call. But, as this is the way things are, you're gonna have to accept it.

Since, as you said, your issue is, "purchasing a snake for $1,100 each and them not being able to sell," clearly, your intent is not care and breeding of an endangered species, nor would it be enjoyment of an exotic pet...no, clearly you want to make some money.

If you want to make money, as you seem to want to, I really wouldn't alienate the community you're trying to merge with....you're going to get a bad reputation and nobody'll buy from you anyway.

Oh, and when you post pictures, you should make sure that the copyright doesn't go to a dead web address. It's one of those little things that make selling whatever you wind up selling a little harder.

That was just a bit of advise...here's some more:

suck-1.jpg
 
Since, as you said, your issue is, "purchasing a snake for $1,100 each and them not being able to sell," clearly, your intent is not care and breeding of an endangered species, nor would it be enjoyment of an exotic pet...no, clearly you want to make some money.

Of course the other line of thought would be that since I don't care about selling them or making money on them I just want a snake that will sell itself quickly so I don't have to mess around trying to sell a damn snake.. Not being in the snake business spending 3 months selling one to "maximize profit" IS NOT my idea of a good time..

If you want to make money, as you seem to want to, I really wouldn't alienate the community you're trying to merge with....you're going to get a bad reputation and nobody'll buy from you anyway.

Not like anybody is buying from anybody as it sits my friend.. Hell, there is yet another person trying to sell Easterns on kingsnake now.. That's four different people in two months!

Oh, and when you post pictures, you should make sure that the copyright doesn't go to a dead web address. It's one of those little things that make selling whatever you wind up selling a little harder.

I didn't say go to the website, I didn't say to check the website and I'm not using it to sell snakes! The website is an entity, one that owns the pictures, thus the copyright stating this.. It is not an advetisement for business..
 
Some folks just have to have the last word no matter what. Just let her have it. She's not going to understand what she's being told anyway. Her skull is simply too thick.
T.
 
Eastern Indigos

There is always a species with herpers that holds us in awe for lack of a better word. A few weeks ago I had the pleasure or the privalige to visit
Robert Bruce where he does his work. I purchased 2 Red throated easterns.
A male and a female. To say that this guy doesnt Love what he does is
a understatement. For 3 hours I was lead on a tour of his facility/home.
It took him 2 hours to decide if he could part with 1 of 2 males that hes
fond of.It was like sitting in a biology class. One that youd love. He wanted
to make sure his Indigos where going to have the best care possible. I told
him that id like to breed them in the future. His answer was that theres not
enough Indigo breeders in the world. Unless youve never had the honor to
hold a 6 to 7 foot indigo and admired there beauty, intelligence,strength,
and at the same time gentleness you cant understand. They to me are
one of the 7 wonders of the reptile world. Yes they were not cheap and
im not going to say how much I payed. If there where alot of them out there
the price would be lower also. Dont forget they are an endangered species.
I know im a little over the top but hey We are talking about Eastern Indigos.
Hats off to people like Robert Bruce. I hope he gets rich! He deserves it!
Seth Smith Beaverfalls on this site.
 
my god shes right

marcia, your right. four whole people are selling indigos on kingsnake. the markets flooded, the price should drop any day now. i have to ask, are you completely retarded? it seems that way. do you understand that these are endangered? let me explain, it means that there are not alot of these left. given this, how could supply possibly be more than demand. have you not understood that these breeders are not doing this for monetary gain, as you seem to be. anyhow, i hope you and your 500 snakes are happy. the way i see it is im sorry to here you got into the drys. you shouldve stayed away and made money elsewhere. before you ask, no i do not keep these. however if i did, i would be more than willing to donate them to zoos or universities or possible to help repopulate the indigos in florida. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
thats the wrong reason to want to deal with any drys, unfortunately you will realize this way to late i am sure.
 
I currently have 32 breeder snakes and 6 breeder monitors and have already saved up over $500 towards an indigo project. Seems like someone with 500 snakes could come up with $2500 for a pair of indigos from a solid reputable dealer. Hmmmm unless you full of CRAP!!!!!

Phil Rotoli
Reptipets,Supplying upstate N.Y.
with the finest captive bred monitors
and snakes since 1999
 
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