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Ebonics added to California school curriculum

Matt Haines

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http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~12588~2969790,00.html

What the heck? Now they believe that by encouraging Ebonics that a student will improve their educational habits. There are already enough people who do not possess the skill to speak or write properly. Why would we want to advocate the further destruction of a language by thinking of slang as a foreign language. This has got to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read.:confused:
 
Badda Bing, Badda Boom.... Fuh Get about it...
 
At least that school is making an attempt to help a struggling class of students. Perhaps using Ebonics will reach out to more disadvantaged students, and they will have a better success rate when it comes to obtaining an education. In my opinion it's still English, but a different dialect or cultural 'accent'. English taught in European curriculum is still English, even though it's not identical to the way Americans use it. Since we have no official language in the states (last I heard) I think that if using Ebonics is what's deemed necessary to educate a certain demographic, then by all means use it.

JMO
 
PaulSage said:
At least that school is making an attempt to help a struggling class of students. Perhaps using Ebonics will reach out to more disadvantaged students, and they will have a better success rate when it comes to obtaining an education. In my opinion it's still English, but a different dialect or cultural 'accent'. English taught in European curriculum is still English, even though it's not identical to the way Americans use it. Since we have no official language in the states (last I heard) I think that if using Ebonics is what's deemed necessary to educate a certain demographic, then by all means use it.

JMO
And then when they enter the real world they will sit back and wonder why no one wants to hire them as a lawyer, doctor, or any other good paying job that requires educated speaking skills.
 
Matt Haines said:
And then when they enter the real world they will sit back and wonder why no one wants to hire them as a lawyer, doctor, or any other good paying job that requires educated speaking skills.
Well they've got to start somewhere. If the kids in question can't even make it through high school, there's not much chance of their speaking skills hindering their professional opportunities.
 
It's a political ploy to placate the uneducated and the bigoted and to fund our wonderful politicians.

I'm all for foreign languages being taught but don't you think those students would be better served by being taught in the dominant language of the country they live in?

Of course IF you want to keep a section of the population ignorant and undereducated and STILL have them think YOU'RE looking out for their best interests THEN this is a great ploy.

When I have had to hire employees if they had poor english skills they had no job. THIS will insure that there are under as well as uneducated masses; perfect for civil unrest and furthering the divide already present in our society.
 
that iz da most ridiculous sheeit I gots ever heard Ya' know what I'm sayin'?
 
PaulSage said:
Well they've got to start somewhere. If the kids in question can't even make it through high school, there's not much chance of their speaking skills hindering their professional opportunities.

I agree that they do need to start somewhere...and that somewhere should be in English 101. Honestly, would you trust a veterinarian that asked you to being a "sample of yo dog's sheeit" for testing? Or a lawyer that started off his defense with "Yo, yo, check it out cho Honor, now dis heya homie didn' do it".... no way. (Sorry, my slang is absolutely horrible...maybe it's because I didn't take ebonics, I learned English instead.)

Honestly, to me this program is just people making excuses for the ignorant. Teach them proper English...don't dig their language hole deeper.
 
Paul,

I own and manage a fair bit of inner city real estate here in the south. Believe me when I tell you that people in the street are severely defiencient in basic English skills. If poor inner city African Americans want their children to get ahead they will encourage them to learn and speak proper English, not ghetto-speak. When I had a medical practice, I would never have hired someone that could not speak proper English. I doubt that many would.

If you believe "Ebonics" to be a dialect, then it can be offered in college for the interest of those who really want to preserve it as such. Until children can read and write in English, and can make simple change without using an electronic device, their time is better spent learning those skills. Ebonics is not going to keep unmotivated kids in school. Better educators and involved parents will.
 
As more and more manufacturing jobs are moved off shore, the number of service jobs will increase (and is already happening). Service jobs require much more interaction with the general public (no longer able to hide the under achievers behind a machine in the warehouse) which requires communication skills.

I agree with Wes this is a political ploy. By lowering the bar enough, they will be able to say that a larger percentage of students are passing, which must mean that they are improving (and thereby secure the politicians a paycheck [can't say it's a job]). In reality this will keep more people uneducated and unemployed/underemployed. This will continue to allow the politicians to manipulate the general masses (who can't research the information they are spoon fed because they cannot read or write english) to vote and react the way the politicians desire.

In other words:

The MAN jus be keepin the brother down!!

Daniel Wedeking
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Wow, how timely!

I feel like the activities I've been doing this last week are so on-target for this thread!

Background about the program before I respond to this thread...

Here in Arizona we have a program called PASS where business leaders get together with educators and create a week long program where educators (voluntarily, during their vacation) visit a barrage of diffferent businesses in order to determine what THEY want in new hires. We know that not all students will go on to college and some will go straight into the work force. Those young people are typically unprepared, which means that we, as educators, are doing something wrong... we go to these businesses and they share with us what gets a person in the door, and what gets a person turned away without more than a cursory interview (if that). We also ask what we, as educators, can do to help these kids entering the workforce be better prepared.

Today was the end of the fourth day of this program. I have one more day and then the program is over. I visited 5 businesses, spending 4 hours at each one. The businesses I visited were very diverse: A WalMart Distribution Center, A one-doctor private office, a YMCA, the local power company, and a golf club (it IS Arizona after all). The OVERPOWERING message we've learned from these companies is that there ARE entry level positions available... but if you can't enunciate your words, speak with proper grammer, have good people skills, be a self-starter, be prompt and able to communicate, you are not going to be hired. We had a presentation from all the other groups of teachers who altogether visited 20 major businesses in the area, and the story was the same at all of these employers. Ethics, morality, communication, people skills. Without them, you're just not going to get much of a job. With them, the sky is the limit.

I believe that there is a rich cultural heritage for the african american people. I'm sure I've already broken half a dozen politically correct "laws" in the above sentence. I'm WHITE as can be. (bilingual and consider the hispanic culture as my own second culture). What I've seen, however, is that those who speak ebonics (I lived in Georgia for a year) sound uneducated and frankly idiotic. I think that if it takes being "bilingual" fine.... have both, but if a person who prefers ebonics cannot switch to a well articulated speech pattern that is foreign to the "ebonic" way of speaking, they are limiting themselves permanently... there is a VERY LOW ceiling beyond which people with this handicap cannot progress.

Flame me all you want for being politically incorrect, I never was good at those kinds of arguments, but what Wes and some others have said is very well stated and I agree wholeheartedly... and I hate the thought of what limits it will put on certain people...

Before I close up this post I want to share an experience I had...

In my second year teaching in the public school system a student transferred to my classroom from Chicago. Her parents were very concerned that she was getting some very "ghetto" type friends who were leading her astray, so they sent her to Arizona to live with her grandparents. Frankly I could NOT understand her when she came to my classroom. LaQuahn had slurred speech and my first impression was that she belonged in the "Life Skills" department... for those with very limited functional skills who would MAYBE get a low-paying institutional job for those with very low-IQ scores. AFter a time I learned that she was actually a lot brighter than she seemed. Not a rocket scientist, but not at the bottom of the barrel either. I'll never forget a meeting I had with her grandparents. Her grandmother worked at a prominent bank and was a very well-spoken individual. LaQuahn's biggest complaint was that her grandparents were sending her to a speech pathologist even though she could speak just fine (I won't try your patience with trying to mimic that phrase in ebonics). Her grandmother startled me by switching to the same dialect and driving home the point that one did not need to lose one's ability to communicate with friends and family to be able to succeed in the world... one had only to acheive the highest limits of the ENGLISH language in order to be successful, and her granddaughter would learn how to SPEAK if it killed her, and she didn't have to lose her ability to speak the down-home language. She just deserved better than the limits she was placing on herself.

I can remember two years later when LaQuahn graduated from high school. She had been accepted into a college and her ability to speak was improved a thousandfold. I also heard her talking "black" with some of her friends before modifying her language for a more professional demeanor. I think that her parents' decision to send her across the country was the best thing for her future. Perhaps she is missing out on some supreme ghetto relationship or ghetto job, but I think her future is much more bright.

Anyway, I'm done. :)
 
Ebonics is in no way meant to be taught. That is like teaching a class called redneck speach 101. Teaching words like 'far' (fire), witcha (with you), wudja (would you). Maybe it's not such a bad idea, that class would sure 'Git R Dun.' I really think the educational system is going down hill, not to mention the economy. The fact is that kids now simply cannot afford an education and some of the ones who can are too lazy to make it through high school. It doesn't look good for the next generation or so if things keep going in this direction.

Fo' Real Dawg
 
I have to agree, the idea of teaching in a style that has come from the streets, will allow those children to only be qualified to go back to those same streets.
I am the mother of five, ranging in age from 22 years to three years. My youngest is in "school" and came home asking for "more", only he was asking for MOE. My reaction was, as it has always been when one of my children misuses or butchers the english language, "Would you like some more?" pronouncing the word correctly and encouraging him to do the same. If he, truley wishes to have something then he will, speak properly to get the item requested. It has worked well thus far.
However my point is the incorrect usage came from school, not home. It is hard enough to teach the children of today without having them taught incorrect language usage in school.
If a child is taught to speak incorrectly, how can this same child ever hope to read "AND" understand the written language. Teaching "ebonics" is only allowing an already under educated child to remain in that state.
Parents, and teachers must work together to assure that the child learns, they must find the childs strengths and weaknesses and build from there. You must actually take time with the child, and show them not just tell them.
But if you must "just tell them" for goodness sakes do it in proper english.
Ginger Ambrose
 
I find it completely unbelieveable that they can choose to TEACH something that will only further hinder these kids. There's a BIG difference between finishing high school with a REAL education, and finishing high school with empty credits. Sure, maybe it will raise the number of students who actually graduate, but without a REAL education, does that really mean anything besides more funding for the school?

If you're falling for this one......youse ain't the schizzle in MY nizzle. :rolleyes:
 
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