Enclosures by design........Long!

[Cheyenness]

Ok, I was asked to go ahead and post my current experience with Sal from Enclosures by design....

Before anyone says anything, I have read the other long thread that was started a month or so ago. I "thought" to maybe give Sal the benefit of doubt, but it seems that I now have no doubt about his business practices.

I ordered a rather large amount of cages from him in mid December and I am still waiting for them. I am going to cut and paste a copy of an email I sent him this morning. The email will basically explain it all.....

Copy sent to Enclosures by design and also Upstate exotics.

Hello again Sal,

I am starting to get a little upset over this entire transaction now. When I first ordered these cages you told me that you would have them done by the end of the week (Dec 19th) . The next time I spoke with you I was told they would be shipped by the following Monday (Dec 29th) . I again spoke with you and was told they would go out this past Monday (Jan 5th). I have not received a tracking number or any email from you since, so from that I am guessing they still have not gone out. I needed these cages ASAP and have lost the buyer for my 6 neodesha cages due to the delay in getting them empty and ready to go.
I ordered and paid for these via Paypal in mid December. At this time I feel that if they are not shipped out by Thursday (Jan 8th) of this week, then I would like a total refund of my $925.00 via Paypal. I could have gone to Lowes and bought the supplies and already had my cages built by now.
I am sorry to have to do this to you, but I have now been told 3 different shipping dates and none of them have been accurate. I was in need of these cages when I ordered them and had I known it would have been this long I would never have bought them and would have just made them myself.

Please respond ASAP

Thanks
Lisa Dodd


I have since also found this information out on the BBB site....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Better Business Bureau, Inc.
741 Delaware Avenue
Suite 100
Buffalo, NY 14209
(716) 881-5222

UPSTATE EXOTICS
61 Lemaire Way
Cossayuna, NY 12823


Principal: Allison Tornambene, Co-Owner
Local Phone Number: (518) 692-3101
TOB Classification: Pet Stores


The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unanswered complaints.

When evaluating complaint information, please consider the company's size and volume of business. The number of complaints filed against the company may not be as important as the type of complaints and how the company handled them.

Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's BBB file was opened in April of 2003: 4
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 4

Complaints Concerned
Refund or Exchange Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Company did not respond: 1

Customer Service Issues: 3
Outcome of all complaints -
Company made good faith effort to Resolve: 1; Company
did not respond: 2


Report as of: 1/7/2004

Copyright: 2004 Better Business Bureau, Inc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only email I got a VERY timely response to was one entitled "my cages and BOI" ... this is the only email he answered within 10 minutes... the rest seem to wait and wait.

I will post an update as soon as I hear from Sal. Maybe this posting here will "motivate" him to do the right thing and just refund me my darn money.... who knows LOL

 

[DThomas]

Maybe this posting here will "motivate" him to do the right thing and just refund me my darn money.... who knows LOL

I hope all works out for you Lisa. Unfortunately, they have a track record of dragging out refunds for extended periods of time. They have proven time and again they have no ethics what so ever when conducting business. They just don't get it. Good luck.

 

[Cheyenness]

Thanks ... I hope so too

Oh and I can't wait to get my thermostat here (I ordered it from you yesterday) LOL

 

[DThomas]

One other thing. You only have 30 days to dispute a Paypal transaction. I would advise you to go ahead and file a complaint with Paypal immediately for non-delivery of goods. Get the ball rolling now before it is too late. And if you paid with a credit card through Paypal, dispute the charge with your credit card company also. Do not delay, the longer you wait the harder it will be.

 

[JungleHabitats]

Hey Lisa

Well only thing I will say is you gave someone a chance and they have so far BLOWN it .

But I will say this to ANYONE who thinks of dealing with Sal .
Anyone who follows there muddy trackrecord will see a pattern they follow to a "T"... They will have several really shoddy deals and then they have a "good" ( which good is questionable) deal to try to make the other bad deals look good , and make people think the leopard chenged its spots ... WRONG a leopard cant change there spots they can only blend into the background to pounce on unsuspecting prey ( customers) Flashy websites and glass promises is all Sal has going for him he has more excuses then Bill Clinton on why this or that didnt happen like it was suppose to. A red flag came up last month when Sal was selling off ALL his snakes for a "family emergency" Sal two things come to mind here you have ALOT of family problems and should probably get out of the buisness to deal with them OR quit making up excuses on why you shaft people and blame it on family problems.

Now i also urge you to file with Kingsnake Lisa as hopefully sooner or later they will just revoke his rights to screw people over and cancel his account. It never seems to amaze me how he conducts business and always seems to "fix them " just enough to keep his account and make someone happy.

Sal if you read this Has Vferra got his refund back yet ??? i know not long ago he hadent gotten it why not ? you owe it to him and you have the money so why does/ did he have to wait so long ??or have family problems "delayed that to " do the reptile world a favor and GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS you just make it depressing when you repeatedly pull these stunts of "oh poor me" excuses on why this or that wasnt done because of everyone elses problems.. even if you make good on this deal now you still need to be avoided like a disease if you know something is unrealistic dont tell them them what they want to hear to make them happy tell them the TRUTH you know what that is Sal ...

What a peace of work Upstate Exotics & Enclosures By Design are ...Run people Run the other way when thinking of dealing with these companies ..

Neil i have to ask you .. . and no offense do you still think Sal is someone to send money to ?and actually get a good outcome from ? when they he says one thing and does several others ? and be objective and think if you were NOT a friend when making a deal with him ...


Way to go Sal the grave is getting dug by you alone wont be long and you can throw yourself in it ....

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Since we had not heard anything bad about Sal and Alison from Upstate, Enclosures by Design, and all their other rip off companies I kind of hoped that they had gone legit. This shows again that they are nothing more than a couple of people that have no ethics, nor care about anything other than their own pockets. I honestly hope that someone takes these losers to court and makes then pay for all the trouble they have put their customers through. I wish there was something that the State of New York would do to close them down (all of their rip off business's) and ensure that they never open another business again. Sal & Alison you 2 make me sick. Also anyone that reads what they have done and still now thinks they are good people must either be a total idiot or possibly getting paid by them (in some shape or fashion).

 

[gila7150]

As Dennis already mentioned, file a claim with Paypal TODAY! Your time is almost up and Upstate will intentionally drag this out until it is. Don't depend on Sal and his sorry excuses to get you a refund....handle it yourself no matter what he tells you. How many times have we heard "checks in the mail" out of Sal's mouth?
When you get done there, file a complaint with the BBB and Kingsnake.

There are way to many reputable cage companies with quality products out there to keep giving Enclosures By Design the benefit of the doubt.
There is no doubt anymore....THEY SUCK!

 

[gila7150]

Although Sal's personal problems seem to be preventing him from sending your cages, miraculously he is still able to post Kingsnake ads for them on almost a daily basis (including as recently as yesterday).

 

[Cheyenness]

I noticed those also.....

I have also noticed those ads and that was one of the MAJOR reasons I wanted an answer and wanted it now!

If you are "so backed up" with making these cages, why advertise more of them and get "more backed up"? I figure finish the ones you have already been paid for and then start advertising again.


I have taken the advice from previous posts and filed with Paypal and I have also filed with the BBB. Kingsnake will be my next option.


Problem is, I am hard headed, stubborn and "mean as spit" to people who wrong me LOL I think he has finally picked the wrong person to try and "rip off". If these problems are not resolved, I will be filing another complaint and be taking him to court over the matter.

As far as I am concerned, I want a refund and it takes 1 minute to log onto Paypal and issue that refund.


Oh and as a side note... I have not gotten a response from Sal regarding my earlier email as yet.

I guess I should not figure everyone does business the same way I do, with the idea that "the customer comes first"!

 

[JungleHabitats]

Lisa ...

Just for kicks im going to inquire on a cage ... who knows i might even call him to talk to him about it ... ill post what comes either way

 

[Dennis Gulla]

My, my, my.........What a surprise.....

to see another thread about Upstate Exotics/Enclosures by Design/Sal & Alison ripping off more people. I must say, for everyone that says "I read the previous post about Sal and Alison, but thought I'll give them the benefit out doubt."

Unfortunately, you people deserve everything you get from these scumbags!! How many complaints do you need to read before you realize that they are complete garbage??

I am sure that as I type this there will still be individuals who will continue to give them support, make excuses for them, feel sorry for them again.......Stardust! Are you here yet?? Think this was just another miscommunication??

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Just for the record.... As much as I distain how Sal has been handling his business practices.... this has NOTHING to do with Alison.... just before Christmas, Alison LEFT Sal and went to live with her parents in Arizona (she's there now).... Sal is the ONLY ONE who dealt with the animals and the cages.... Alison was only doing her Moonlit Media making and designing websites.... they will probably NOT get back together (as per Alison)....

Alison KNOWS how to take care of business.... there is NO connection (now) to her business dealings and Sal's.... please don't get them confused if you ever see Alison advertising for web design.... she would never screw you over....

Neil

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Neil,

Now that sounds like just another one of their excuses on why they can't take care of their problems. Alison was dealing with the animals before and was knee deep in the Crap they laid out the whole time. Now if she left him I don't know for sure and really could care less. She and Sal are both responsible for the actions specially since she is named in the business as well.

 

[gila7150]

Alison KNOWS how to take care of business.... there is NO connection (now) to her business dealings and Sal's

Wasn't it Allison who once said that there was no connection between Upstate Exotics and Enclosures By Design?
Wasn't it Allison that called Tony a liar for the months that he had to fight for a refund before finally getting a chargeback on his credit card?
Isn't it usually Allison who is the more vocal of the two every time their names come up in another bad guy thread?

she would never screw you over....

Famous last words
You're right though, because I'd never send her a nickel.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Rob.... I'm certainly not going to argue with you, but Alison NEVER had anything to do with the animals, all she did was help Sal keep things straight, and clean (as most wives would do for their husbands, yours included)....
You only know them from what you've heard.... I know them from COUNTLESS business transactions between us (them usually buying from me), and speaking with each of them on the phone all the time....
Alison IS in Arizona, and she DID leave Sal (for good).... she is one of the nicest and most honest women I know.... it's just a total shame she had to be incorporated into Sal's LOUSY business practices.... I'm not going to refute the fact that Sal is one of the WORST businessmen I've ever seen.... Alison (on the other hand).... is one of the BEST!.... All she does is web design, she did mine and she did Ray's (HBR), among many others.... she has NEVER let us down with any work that needed to be done, and it is usually ON THE SPOT service.... again, I ask you NOT to put the two of them together because it's just not the case....

Neil

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Neil,

She very well may be in Arizona now, but if you contact (or anyone else does) New York State of Licensing and the BBB (just look on the first page of this thread) you will see that she is listed on the Business's. Therefore no matter what, she is responsible for the actions of Sal and those business's until she is removed from the Business licenses and such. To me by overwhelming and repeated proof she and Sal are both the dredges of society. If she truly cared, she would have done something to stop the BS that was happening (up until the time the supposedly left him).

 

[Wilomn]

I don't seem to recall any time when alison referred to upchuck as belonging to sal alone. In ALL the threads they were being questioned in she always said we and us and our not his or sal's or my husbands. Seems she thought she was part of the company too. Being as she was the only one to respond to anything here until sal's mom supposedly died I sure thought she was a major part of it too.

Did you forget how she replied to Tony neil? She told him that THEY, being sal and alison, had sent his refund SEVERAL times. She never said that sal had sent it.

Whether or not she's left him for good makes no difference. She was the other half of upchuck and as the main name on the business papers is STILL part of that company. Unless of course she and sal were never really married. That opens a whole other can or worms but, since they both use the same last name I'll go out on a limb here and assume they actually were married.

She's as responsible as he is for whatever business he has done so long as she is on the paperwork making his business legitimate.

With these two though, who knows what's been filed or misrepresented or just plain lied about.

It was said a few posts ago and is still unfortunately true, if you do business with these two you deserve what ever you get. A rabid dog has to be put down because there is no cure. This seems, and I mean upchuck as well as enclosures, to be a case of rabid businesses. Everything they touch is affected in a negative way.

Wes Pollock

 

[Dennis Gulla]

Neil,

You have stated your opinion on the members of this board on a couple of occasions, intensionally or not, but that opinion is that everyone here is an idiot.

Please, do not insult my intelligence or that of any other quality member of this site. I read every thread about these cons.......and yes, they are cons!!

Alison, was the one on this board everytime there was an issue with Upstate, NOT Sal. She has been caught in so many lies that your last post makes you look ridiculous!

 

[JungleHabitats]

Enclosures by Upstate

lol ok that was a funny

She is as several have stated listed as CO-OWNER by the BBB which i would think mean she is somewhere somehow listed on BUISNESS PAPERS as such.If she did leave the old Sap Sal maybe you Neil if you can speak with her let her know that Sal is again making a mess of her name as it stands anything as far as a legal action could certainly include her on the paper work as being responsible for any actions taken.Also as per the website payments are made to moonlit media which would mean that her business is taken the money for Sals misdealings , there again making her still a part of the gruesome twosome so that alone makes her again somewhat responsible for the companies problems or i guess Sal could just say since there supposedly split up that he didnt receive anyones money for payments it was moonlit media who took money ? no matter what its still a very sad situation.

And per Lisa's own words Sal only responded to her this morning because PAYPAL contacted him about the complaint she filed...
makes ya wonder huh he didnt respond to her email but yet called her because she filed a complaint...

 

[DThomas]

Although Sal's personal problems seem to be preventing him from sending your cages, miraculously he is still able to post Kingsnake ads for them on almost a daily basis (including as recently as yesterday).

He had been posting classifieds everyday. Now that that was mentioned he has all of a sudden stopped posting classifieds. He must be working on another lame excuse and use his lack of posting today as evidence...lol

By the way, he is selling these cages on Reptibid under the user name snakepro. Wonder why he changed his user name from Sal. Could it be all the negative feedback he received?..Pathetic