• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Enclosures by Design

It's not sending money it is a refund. We have switched bank accounts and paypal is verying our new information, so we have to use their system to request refunds, for security purposes. So Ritchie, I do understand the concept of sending money, but this is not sending money, it is a refund....two different things.

Besides that, the only person that needs to be happy here is Kris...which we are making sure he is the ONE that is and will continue to be happy.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 8:57 PM
To: Alison Tornambene
Subject: Access Limitation - ATARAL (KMM35226552V51372L0KM)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: When you click on links in this email, you will be asked to log into
your PayPal Account. As always, make sure that you are logging into a
secure PayPal page by looking for 'https://www.paypal.com/' at the
beginning of the URL.
********************************************

Form Message
customer message: I authorize paypal to refund Kris Stroup
([email protected]) $69.00

Thank You

Alison Tornambene
Click to expand...

Then today we received this:
Dear Alison Tornambene,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Recently you have written to PayPal to have certain funds refunded to buyers. In order for us to be able to do so, we need you to reply back to us with the transaction ID numbers that are you referencing in regards to those refunds. Please reply back to this email with that information so that we can better assist you. I do apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us
again.

Sincerely,
Evan
PayPal Account Review Department
PayPal, an eBay Company
Click to expand...

That information was sent today, so like I explained to Kris (the one who needs to be happy and have things explained to), he should receive his payment tomorrow.
 
Instead of dealing with all this refund BS, which seems to be a hurdle you just can't clear, why don't you just paypal the money to him directly from your account?

There is no question that you are going to refund the money right? So why not just do a straight from your account to his transfer of funds, no refund nonsense?

Wes Pollock
 
wilomn said:
Instead of dealing with all this refund BS, which seems to be a hurdle you just can't clear, why don't you just paypal the money to him directly from your account?

There is no question that you are going to refund the money right? So why not just do a straight from your account to his transfer of funds, no refund nonsense?

Wes Pollock
Click to expand...

Obviously a good question, one that I pondered as well......

BUT....remember, to get a refund, you must have your credit card company get it for you......and even then, these people will insist that they sent it voluntarily.......nothing ever seems to be easy for Upstate now does it? Nor do they EVER see mto do things at the convenience of their customers....it always seems that they do things that will make it easier for them, regadless of how long people have to wait.........

Thanks
Todd Evans
 
Well since everyone seems to know everything, I don't know why I am explaining this.....

Has anyone ever given a REFUND through paypal?
Well if you have you know the reason you do a REFUND and not just sending money is 1. that it shows on your records as a refund, just just as sending money and 2. when you give a refund it also refunds the FEES....saving everyone money.

But I'm sure you already knew that...

Also, like I stated, our account was limited, as we had to verify the new information with paypal. So I ask, has anyone's account ever been LIMITED by paypal?
Well if it has, you would know that in order to do ANYTHING with sending money of ANY kind, you have to contact paypal and have them do it and verify the transaction. We had to send all our account information, and verify who we were while doing this switch...for security reasons...so this was the only way to do it....and as I posted, those are the original emails....

But again, i'm sure you already knew that too.....
 
Well Alison. I have added a new different buisness checking account to my paypal account as well as other credit cards and not once did my account become restricted or limited. I added the new account while the other accounts were still active and all they did was verify the new account without any problems.

It always seems to be something with you and your customers. I would think you guys would start to get tired of giving your customers the run around but I guess you don't see anything wrong with it.
 
Well Rob...thanks...

Since your account has never been limited, like you stated, then you have no idea what is invloved.
 
I'm no math whiz by any stretch of the imagination but isn't 3% of $89.00 about $2.70?

So alison, you're saying that for $2.70 you are once again going to muddy your name? Damn, girl, that's just rediculous.

In case you haven't heard of them there are these things called Postal Money Orders. You go right down to your post office, give them some cash and then they give you a piece of paper that is worth the same amount of money as the cash you gave them. You can actually send that little piece of paper by USPS to just about anywhere in the world and either pay for something or provide a REFUND. Wow!!! What a concept, eh? And, if you insure the piece of mail the money order is in, even if it gets lost you STILL don't lose out, they'll actually replace it. Wow again!!!

You've just got to ask yourself at some point, is all this hoopla really worth it? I just don't see how it can be but....... well, I just don't see it as being worth the time and effort you've gone through to save that $2.70 this time or the, what about $ 5.40 with Tony. Over what, something like 75 pages now over basically $8.10??? That's eight dollars and ten cents. That can't be right can it?

I must admit, now that I've seen it in black and white I'm rather dumbfounded and somewhat at a loss for words. That should put it in prospective for you as I am NEVER at a loss for words.

Wes Pollock
 
As I have had problems with paypal in the past and sorting out the new name change and bank change I can understand the problems.
I also understand that 2.70 here and 5.40 there does add up.
I am going to reserve judgement on this until Kris gives a update on the situation and if he has been staying in contact with upstate.
If the customer is happy..............
 
It's all well and good to wait on the customer for a single transactions completion. While this particular thread is only about Kris, it is also a piece of a much larger picture, which I see as the base value of the honor, or lack thereof, which belongs to upchuck.

It also seems to me that if the $2.70 and $5.40 dollar refunds are sooooo important to alison then perhaps she should consider another business, one which does not have anything to do with paypal or any other wire transfer of funds. Or perhaps one that is lucritive in such fashion that transactions of such large sums as these won't break the bank, so to speak.

Wes Pollock
 
Wes, first it's not ME saving the money...the fees go to the customer...so i make nothing...

Second of all it's for the paperwork...for our books, it shows as a refund, NOT a sale...

That's why Paypal has added that feature.....

Do you even use Paypal??
 
No, alison, I have never, nor will I ever, make use of paypal for many of the reasons that you are in the situation you are in right now.

Paperwork schmaperwork, if a refund is due and you make that refund, no matter the means used to do it, a simple notation in your monthly records will be sufficient to document what it is, for your RECORDS.

It really does NOT have to be so complicated as you seem to love to make it.

Wes Pollock
 
my thoughts .....

ok so for a $89.00 refund you have gone through this ? ok let me ask this ... paypal offers a space for "writing in the transaction" so would it not be so simple to to refund the $89,00 + the fee??? hello people how hard is this ... then YOU have records because paypal emails you a copy??? so then you hit PRINT then you have a copy for your records ....... its no different then when i go to lowes to refund something that i dont need for a job they simply do a credit / or cash refund circle the item refunded and BAM its done . im surethat if refunding $89.00 isnt goingto bankrupt you thenthe additional $2 and change added to it wont kill you.. if so then take advice and close up shop.Customer satisfaction is # 1 in this buisness all else is second hand BS excuses were for coming home late when you should have been home 2 hrs earlier . now think if you had 100 unhappy customers and they all waited this long whos the bad person ???? paypal cant be an excuse for every person and yes i have and did again just sign up for paypal and YES i did have to wait for verification of bamk account. BUT the $ was no issue if i had owed someone something my bank gives out cahiers checks ... something to think about.
 
Well, I'm hoping that my cage-purchasing saga is almost at an end. I just emailed Sal and Allison and asked that they refund the balace of my money if my cage has not been shipped already. Here's the details of the last few days. I did eventually receive direct paypal from them, and an email on Monday night:

QUOTE

Hey Kris:

Paypal finally lifted the restricted access to our account today...I
will go ahead and refund you direct. All I ask is if paypal finally
does refund you through their financial department (since they're taking
so long) just send the additional $69 back to us. I trust you
will....lol

The enclosure will be going out tomorrow, we are dropping it off at the
shipping place to be packed and boxed properly (disassembled), and will
go out. Once shipped I will email you the tracking number. Sal is
feeling better, and is having a friend help him load everything up (so
he doesn't go back to square one with doing it himself...lol).

Thanks for your patience! You can still call tomorrow, but this is what
I wanted to talk to you about.

Have a great night!

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

QUOTE

Well, I never received a tracking number, so I am really unsure what the status of my cage is at this point. I emailed them tuesday night and again thursday afternoon to inquire about a tracking number. I received no reply to either, but I'm sure they have been online, since I've seen postings on KS from them.

It seems like everytime I post here, I get a very quick reply, thouhg, so I know they check htis thread. Hopesfully this post will get a reply. Honestly, I just wan t my money back at this point so I can look into purchasing a different cage.

Thanks for all your help and suport. I'll keep you posted as the situation develops.

Kris
 
The email I received this morning:

QUOTE

Hi Kris!

Sorry, but we thought you received the tracking number yesterday. We
dropped it off at the shipper to be wrapped and packaged. Shipping UPS
Ground #1ZY2666E2494962057.

Sorry we didn't get back to you right away, we have a show this weekend,
so we've been very wrapped up today getting ready for it. So if it takes
us a bit to get back to you this weekend, don't worry, we will be
checking our email periodically.

Please let me know you received this email, as it sometimes seems we
miss correspondence from each other.

Hope you enjoy the enclosure and let me know when it arrives.

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

I'll et you guys know once it arrives.

Kris
 
Just for grins, I plugged in that tracking number at UPS. Here is what came back:

One or more of the numbers you entered are not valid UPS Tracking Numbers. Please review and update the field(s) highlighted in red with arrows (>>>).

Enter up to 25 UPS Tracking Numbers and/or InfoNotice Numbers below.


PLEASE NOTE: To track your package(s), you must accept the UPS Tracking Terms and Conditions by selecting the checkbox below. Logged-in users of My UPS are not required to agree to Terms and Conditions for each tracking request.


Inquiry Numbers:
>>>1. 1ZY2666E2494962057
2.
3.
4.
5.
Click to expand...

Kris, you might want to check that tracking number, or see if you can locate the package through a different means.
 
interesting to say the least

i also just tryed aracking and got the same response "Maybe " they entered it wrong ??? or maybe there stalling who knows .
Let us know what happens on your end chris good luck
 
Possibly, although it showed that Upstate was reading this thread at 9:20 this morning, so you'd think they would have corrected it....

Hopefully it's a typo, and the enclosure shipped and Kris will receive the refund, and all will turn out as it should.
 
I would lean more towards that is the tracking number that they are planning on using for the shipment when it ships. (which more than likely won't be for a while). Chris I think you would be better off just getting a full refund from them and going with a trustworthy honest cage manufacturer for your needs.
 
Nothing yet. After I emailed requesting a refund last week, I was told that the package already went to the shipper, and I got a tracking number, ostensibly UPS ground.

1ZY2666E2494962057

That number is not functional, in case you checked it. I emailed back a couple of times to ask about that, and just heard yesterday that they would look into it. At this point, I have no idea what the status either of the cage or the refund is.

I'll post pictures and my evaluation when and if the cage arrives.

Kris
 
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