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? for those with Leucistic texas rats

S

sschind

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If you saw an ad offering babies with the phrase "bug eyed" as a descriptor what would you think. I was under the impression that bug eyes was consider to be a defect. I am not sure if the seller was thinking this was a good thing (thats the way it seemed) or if he was warning us that they are bug eyed.

Thanks

Steve Schindler
 
Bug eyed

I would think that he was warning of the bug eyed condition. However, I know a few people that like the look. I breed leucistic black rats and the condition is rarer than in Texas rats, but it does happen. It is a defect, but I have seen no evidence that it is in any way a handicap to the snake. It just looks weird.

Derek Berrier
 
I agree

I have a sub adult leusistic Texas rat that isn't bug eyed,but I have seen some that look like they are Trans-Pecos with the bug eyes.I agree with Steve,the bug-eyes snakes look kind of weird . But I still like 'em!!!

<img src="http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-3/142133/SpookOutsideFace.jpg" width=550 height=434>
 
Bug eyes

I think the bug eyes are a defect and as such am trying to work with animals with perfect eyes. Hopefully all the offspring will not have bug eyes. I have a baby from a somewhat bug eyed pair that's actually missing an eye. If the bug eye gene increases the chances of these gross deformites I am not for it!
 
Bug eyes

As I stated before, I also think that bug eyes are a defect. I don't breed mine to produce the trait. As a matter of fact, I sell all of the bug eyes and only breed the normal eyed snakes. However, even breeding normal eyed adults produces some bug eyes from time to time. I have started introducing new bloodlines from wildcaught snakes in order to reduce the number of bug eyes. I have a few hets right now, but no leucistics out of the outcrosses to test the value of the new blood.
Finally, while I don't particularly like the look of the bug eyes, some people actually do. I have heard them described as clownish, silly, unique, and even cute. I never fail to sell all that I produce as a by product of my breeding, so they must not be that unpopular. Also, just remember that sometimes a defect turns into a very desired trait. Just think of how many types of dogs we would not have now if "defects" and mutations were not cultivated and encouraged. Also keep in mind that, as we started this thread on the subject of leucistic snakes, the leucistic trait itself is a defect in the genetic code that would prove fatal in the wild, but we have selected it as a desired defect in collections.

Just my humble view,
Derek Berrier
 
I also do not like the bugeyed look. But I am not convinced that it is genetic in origin. I think it would be worth testing to see if it is caused by a vitamin deficiency. I've thought about getting a brother/sister pair of bugeyes to test, but so far I've had other things to spend the money on.

I've seen small eyes and/or one missing eye in several species, including timber rattlesnake, Indian python, and Sonoran gopher snake. That's another thing that could be caused by a vitamin deficiency.
 
bugeyes

I don't follow your logic on the vitamin deficiency. These snakes are bugeyed at birth, they don't develop this look over time. If you mean that the mother was deficient and passed this to the embryos, then why would the majority of the babies in a clutch have normal eyes? I produce most of my leucistic babies via a "rusty" black rat x a leucistic black rat. This also produces a fair number of "rusty" babies in the same clutch, none of which have ever hatched with bug eyes. Also, the bug eyed trait seems to happen more in males than females. This year, I produced my first female bugeyed in 10 yr of breeding this line. I have had a couple of dozen males hatch with this trait. Finally, I supplement year round with vitamin and mineral powder for all my snakes, so I don't think this is a problem.
As for the other species with eye deformities such as small or missing eyes, I believe that most are due to either genetic mutations or defects within that particular snake, or possibly stresses to the embryo during development. Stresses such as abrupt temp fluctuations, dehydration, or even mold, can cause developmental defects in egg layers, and probably in live bearers as well.


Derek Berrier
 
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