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Hay's Haven

vet info and etc.

ok here is the vet i use is
dr. shaw at
Lincoln Highway Veterinary Clinic
1833 Lincoln Highway East
Lancaster, PA 17602
and the geckos had
CELLULITIS
the first one also had STREP PNEMONIA due to her condition with the other disease.

vet gave me TETRACYCOINE to give the other 2 which died later even after med, pediolite, warm water, and heat lamps failed to help them. i was even nice to alert him about the disease. but i guess it is a lost cause. hope no one else has this problem. taught be a lesson thou. never trust get it in writing...

gary bolton
 
How did your vet happen to come to that diagnosis?
1. Did he do bloodwork?
2. Did he do a C&S?

They died of cellulitis? come on....
I'm assuming that you atleast took photos of the dead geckos, right? If they had such advanced cellulitis that it caused them to die....this should be pretty obvious in the photos.

Anybody ever see a leopard gecko with strep throat? Me neither ;)
 
I was joking about the strep throat...
but if your vet determined it was Streptococcus, there had to have been some diagnostic tests done and your itemized receipt from the vet should show that.
Photos of the animals and a receipt from your vet would go a long way in proving your case.
 
Gary,

I'm not taking sides here as I don't know either one but I agree with what the rest have said, you should provide some sort of proof. At least post a scanned vet report. If you don't have the original one I wouldn't doubt Dr. Shaw can issue a copy. After all it's not every day geckos come to a clinic and are diagnosed with cellulitis.

As for the condition, cellulitis (usually a form of skin infection) does exist as an ailment in herps; bacteria such as streptococcus and staphylococcus can be the infective agent, and it's treatment (aside from supportive therapy, as suggested) is with antibiotics (like tetracycline). In my opinion if someone was going to make-up an unexisting ailment (and I'm not saying Gary has done it) he will most likely not choose a relatively rare finding such as cellulitis, and provide details about the causing organism and it's treatment. This is just my opinion of course.

Assuming you post a vet report, you still have to provide proof though as of which geckos infected which.

Regards.
 
At least post a scanned vet report. If you don't have the original one I wouldn't doubt Dr. Shaw can issue a copy.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what should be done. Typing out what the report stated is not proof and I'm saying you are lieing either, but you need to post a scanned report.

Proving which geckos contaminated which may be almost impossible if they have been disposed of. Do you still have them?
 
Gary,
You said that you took the geckos to the vet the day after you received them and at that time one was dead and the other two were sick.
Jason says that you didn't email him about any problems until a week after receiving them. Is this true...and if not, do you have copies of your emails to prove otherwise?
When you pay for a professional necropsy you should receive a necropsy report....do you have that?

If you're not going to offer any proof of your allegations, you're wasting your time here. Right now, it's just your word against his. Jason may have handled this differently if you had given him some kind of proof that his animals were ill when you received them. If they had severe cellulitis it should have been obvious the minute you saw them....not a week later.
 
vet

ok called vet back by tomorrow i will be posting a letter from him stating what was wrong with the geckos and treatment that was tried and failed. don't have a copy because i thought when he offered to ship other geckos problem was solved, but i was wrong. another lesson for me.

Gary Bolton
 
Gary,

If you have any e-mail exchange between both of you please post it too. It might be helpful to establish time-frames.

Thanks.
 
Emails

Gary, any and all emails between you and Jason should be posted. Would certainly help your case.

Especially if you have one stating he would send you another gecko.

If he did, then you are owed one.

Posting the vet reports would be a BIG thing also!

If you have any e-mail exchange between both of you please post it too. It might be helpful to establish time-frames.
Click to expand...

Time frames would be very important too.
 
I think Jason said that he initially agreed to send another gecko, but then there were no photos or vet reports forthcoming, so he chose not to. If that is the situation, I would not have shipped a replacement either.

I don't know of anyone that will replace an animal without some sort of proof that the animal was/is sick or died.
 
I think Jason said that he initially agreed to send another gecko, but then there were no photos or vet reports forthcoming, so he chose not to.
Click to expand...

Okay, that would make sense. If I were in his position I wouldn't replace anything without a vet report or photos of the animals involved.

I am wondering how long Gary had them before they died and what are Jason's TOS?
 
photos and report

after the first one died and i explain the others where sick he offered the babies he was hatching. and since he trusted me i trusted him to send them. even when he told me he didn't have money to ship the one, i still trusted him. thought there was a two way trust. should have listen to another breeder who told me to trust only what you have in writing before you. now i realize even with the vet letter tomorrow i'll most likely still will lose on the sick albinos. well learn two things pay by paypal and no more trusting. but at least the vet letter will prove i am telling the truth.

Gary Bolton
 
what are Jason's TOS?
Click to expand...

This is what's on his website right now, not sure if this was in effect when the animals were sold.

==============================================
All animals are guaranteed live arrival, as long as there is someone at home at the time of delivery. If you are not going to be at home, please have me ship to your work, or on another day, when you'll be at home.

I also guarantee the health of all animals, as long as you contact me as soon as you notice a problem. All animals should eat within 24 hours of arriving at your home. Most will eat and drink right out of the box.

All animals are guaranteed healthy and eating well.

In the case of a DOA, I will refund any money paid minus shipping. Or if possible, replace the animal with another of the same or better quality. In the case of a replacement animal, the buyer must pay for shipping on the second animal. Also, I must be contacted within 24 hours of delivery, if there is an unfortunate loss due to delayed or extreme weather shipping. Proof must be provided of the DOA. Including, but not limited to: photographs, receipts, and shipping the animal back to me.

==============================================
Sounds to me like he requires proof for refund or replacement.
 
PHOTOS

Judging by the TOS it would seem Jason requires photos as part of that proof. The vet report will be interesting.

Did he take photos of the dead ones?

Without pics it might be difficult for Gary to get a replacement because he hasn't honored the TOS that require pics.

The TOS are applied to a DOA for a refund, not to something that died a short while later. But there appears to be no time frame for a sick animal or for one that dies shortly after arriving in regards to getting a refund.

I might be wrong, but a week after an animal dies you should be eligible for a refund according to the TOS.
 
Just curious

I only read through some of the post, so I may be repeating a question here, BUT wouldn't Hay's have other dead geckos at own place if he had sick gecko's, cause wouldn't those same ones he sent to Gary infect his (Hay's) own? Does that make sense??? Anyone get what I'm saying????
 
BUT wouldn't Hay's have other dead geckos at own place if he had sick gecko's, cause wouldn't those same ones he sent to Gary infect his (Hay's) own? Does that make sense??? Anyone get what I'm saying????
Click to expand...

Valid point and one no one has brought up!
 
It is a valid point, and one that I considered, but (assuming for the moment and the sake of argument that Hay's was a corrupt individual/business) why would Hay's EVER admit to that being the case??? Gary already distrusts Hay's, so why should he believe him when he says his animals are all doing fine? If Hay's were to come on and say "Yep, all my collection is dead/dying from it too!" he would be an honest individual, but such a person would have also sent a refund/replacement right off the bat, knowing he had sent sick animals.

So, if Hay's were honest enough to say his reps were sick, he'd be honest enough to handle the matter correctly. If he says they're fine, it could very well be that Hay's is being honest, and they really are fine, but you're never going to convince Gary of that!

All in all, I think we'd be running around the barn for very little outcome on that question. Just mho, though.
 
It's always possible that someone who has been to Hay's or is in the know might be able to answer that question, not just Hay's!

Otherwise, at this point I don't see that Jason has done anything wrong so far, so maybe we had better just accept his answer if he responds to this and give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Oh, please don't get what I typed above wrong! I wasn't questioning Jason's credibility there at all . . .I was only trying to see things from every point of view. I have just never been one to take a person's description of his own position in an argument to be verified fact, without the type of outside testimony you suggested.

Documentation is the key to any position on the BOI. I was just pointing out the possible flaws in what was stated, that's all.
 
I thought that too...

I thought the same things, but just wondered if the question had been posed and if so had anyone seen Hay's animals, or possibly bought some gecko's at the same time. It does seem to me that it's odd that Gary's geckos all fell ill and died, yet he also had some gecko's from elsewhere that could have very well brought the infection in too. Like I saw posted several times, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine!!!!!
 
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