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Hay's Haven

Well still waiting for my refund. I guess this proves my point Jason Hays is a crook..
Click to expand...

Not to everyone, although perhaps it suffices as proof to those with a significant bias in the situation, such as yourself.

Gary, your story changed eighteen times, your facts were all over the place, you failed to provide the requested and agreed upon evidence of the problem and you brought it to light well after what could be considered a reasonable period of time and certainly outside of the guarantee period offered by Hay's Haven.

Having read this thread, seen your conduct and your inability to set forth a simple and straightforward account of the incident and the "proof" you have offered... I personally would not issue a refund in this situation either. Just as the seller has a responsibility if they make a mistake or are somehow at fault, the buyer has a responsibility in how they deal with the situation as well, a responsibility you failed to meet.

You have not proven to my personal satisfaction that Hay's Haven is a bad guy at all, much less an outright crook and your continued insistance that this is the case with no further evidence just makes *you* look bad, like the kind of customer people are better off avoiding.

If someone were to sell you something, how do they know you won't get it infected and start making demands after the guarantee they offered is up, offer scanty and questionable information as proof and generally abuse the english language while ranting about what a nasty person they are because you didn't get your way?
 
if the proof was not enough for Jason he had the vets phone number to call and ask any questions. he did not. any original he offered to replace the geckos without a vet letter. then tried to sell the replacement animals an got caught. As for buying from me people will tell you I pay promptly and work with both sellers and buyers fairly. I have a spotless record on ebay as gwbolton67. Any have a excellent record with paypal. If I had a illness in my stock how comes my animals now have no problems. I don't make promises I don't keep. I feel a persons word is their bond and Jason broke his with me several times. So I have not to fear. I only ask what is fairly mine back.

Gary Bolton
 
another question

when is it right to send sick reptiles to a person and not refund that persons money? I got the geckos sept 3, 2002 told them to the vet the sameday. the letter proves they where sick already and one died that day. How is this my fault?

Gary Bolton
 
Gary, first the geckos didn't go to the vet until some started dying.

Then they went the day you got them

Your vet has not issued an actual vet report, merely a letter on stationary from the clinic... and the letter is not exactly complete or particularly informative.

Your story about the timeline changed too many times to make your word credible, you have not proven that the geckos were sick when you obtained them initially and your own inability to put forth a concrete story has made it seem questionable that anything you said or will say on the issue is true.

I'm not taking sides, I'm merely explaining that, to an uninvolved observer, your constantly changing story damages your credibility to the point where few, if any, breeders/dealers would issue a refund.
 
i talked jason about the geckos aug 28th. paid for them aug 30th. he shipped them sept 2nd. i got them sept 3rd. noticed that they where acting strangely, so i took them to the vet that day. by the time i got them there the one was dead. the other 2 where in poor shape. vet gave me meds and a treatment plan. their legs where so weak they couldn't move without help. not long after i found the other two dead. I called Jason on sept 3rd. informed him of what the vet said. all he said was I have more eggs that will hatch soon and will send you a replacement. If he would have asked for a vet report or anything else at the time. i would have given it to him. the mistake i made was trusting him. that is why now i am more careful who i buy from. and i take pictures of ever animal i buy on arrival. I doubt he'll ever refund my money, i just don't want this to happen to someone else.
those albinos where going to start a new colony for me and I was looking forward to it. If fact this is more then just the money i lost but a trust factor. Now i see why people want you to ship first when trading reptiles, it is because of people like this.

gary bolton
 
You have not proven to my personal satisfaction that Hay's Haven is a bad guy at all, much less an outright crook and your continued insistance that this is the case with no further evidence just makes *you* look bad, like the kind of customer people are better off avoiding.
Click to expand...

This I agree with. Also the continued ranting about someone that they are a crook is really getting...old!

Story changes and lack of proof just don't make Jason look bad, in effect, your story changes etc have done nothing but convince me that you are a customer to be avoided.

Jason is not going to reply to this post. That should be obvious by now. I guess he doesn't want to waste his time. You continue to post repeatedly, in the process you just lose credability with every post that rants on about Jason being a BAD GUY and further cementing in my mind that you are to be avoided as a customer.
 
that seems to be the case. Jason refuses to refund my money. So this leaves me with no choice but to take legal action. I hate to use this means, but i feel i have no choice.

Gary Bolton
 
Legal action?

These are Jason's TOS!

==============================================
All animals are guaranteed live arrival, as long as there is someone at home at the time of delivery. If you are not going to be at home, please have me ship to your work, or on another day, when you'll be at home.

I also guarantee the health of all animals, as long as you contact me as soon as you notice a problem. All animals should eat within 24 hours of arriving at your home. Most will eat and drink right out of the box.

All animals are guaranteed healthy and eating well.

In the case of a DOA, I will refund any money paid minus shipping. Or if possible, replace the animal with another of the same or better quality. In the case of a replacement animal, the buyer must pay for shipping on the second animal. Also, I must be contacted within 24 hours of delivery, if there is an unfortunate loss due to delayed or extreme weather shipping. Proof must be provided of the DOA. Including, but not limited to: photographs, receipts, and shipping the animal back to me.

============================================

There were NO dean on arrival animals so no refund there.



He also stated that he had bought some baby fattails from another breeder before he got mine and they had died right after mine arrived. Keep in mind that at this time the ones he had bought from me were still alive
Click to expand...

With this, I would not hold my breath too long on a good legal result, not with the ever changing story either. Legal action over $150 is a little on the rediculous side of things.

The cost of legal action might in the end, possible court costs, exceed the price of the animals.

However, GOOD LUCK... your going to need it!
 
the legal action i am taking is to file a complaint with his states atty. general. it is called a consumer complaint. from what my states atty generals office told me. no cost to me.

gary bolton
 
oh an he did promise heathly geckos the ones he sent me where ill on arrival. and if i am correct that does make it right for me to ask for a refund.

gary bolton
 
Vet report

I realize I am just a newbie to this forum and soforth, but I have taken a interest to this post for some odd reason, I dont want to be bashed or anything else but I felt I needed to say something, I took it upon myself to call his Vet, and I am just amazed how easily people contest everything Gary has said and dont mind takeing the time to post their thoughts against him, but do not take the time to do as I did. The vet verified the date that Gary took the animals in, if that was indeed the same day he recieved them I dont understand what the confusion is in this matter. Once again, this post was in no way meant to offend or stir anyone up as I dont want to end up on the recieving end of attacks from the people who believe Gary to be in the wrong, I just wanted to say my .02 in the matter. Thank you
 
The fact that Gary was just in fauna chat, left it and came back to announce that your post had popped up makes me suspicious.

I also find it suspicious that you had the time to call the vet during normal busines hours, but not to post until 12:45am (est) which coincided with when Gary was on this forum in that chat room and I was questioning him on the facts of the situation.

You'll have to forgive me though for being a skeptic.


The fact is, I feel sorry for Gary's situation. But I feel as strongly as many others in here that he is handling it wrong.

He comes into the chat room constantly to tell people to stay away from Hay's Haven.


I want to see a copy of the vet report, not just a letter from the vet. Gary you have yet to show that.

Why do we have to verify it with your vet if you indeed have proof that you could plainly display to all of us?
 
Ok

This is the time I am always on, I am a latenighter, if that is a crime please forgive me,I own several businesses and to be honest I dont have to be in my office but maybe 5 hours a week, I have no clue who Gary is. I didnt have any idea Gary was on chat either as I have never been on the chat here, I am sure you can see I have been on this forum for a couple weeks, I almost never post....Except when I see something that I dont feel is quite right, as was the case here, I feel that some people are here just to give people like Gary a hard time, I am not saying anyone in particular and I am not saying that about you either waxworm but I did feel that may be the case in this thread, So I decided to see for myself and posted that I did. That was it, I just feel it is a shame that calling the # Gary provided is such a difficult thing to do for so many people that say they want to know the truth. That is what this board is about, the truth. If I had heard otherwise from his vet I would have posted that. I plan to be on this forum a lot, Not to say I will post a lot, but when I do, I can guarentee it will always be impartial and factual as that is what keeps this board working, And as time goes on I hope to be the good guy of many posts as I get more and more into this wonderful hobby. Thank you
 
P.S.

Also, I am not sure if it will mean anything, but if you do a search on me you will see this is the time I always post, Once again, I am a latenighter. Thank you
 
Excellent post and I do agree with you Mike, but I still would like to see an official vet report. Why can't this be provided for us?

Why must Gary continue to boost this thread to let us know that Jason is a bad guy and that Gary is seeking legal action, but that be the extent of what he will share outside of "call my vet if you don't believe me."

You're right, we can call the "vet" and the "vet" can tell us unofficially anything he wants. But where is the official proof that Gary claims to have that will actually make a case for him? Why can't he get us that?

I want to believe Gary, and I want to feel sorry for his loss. But I don't feel like he is acting in a way that is deserving of either.
 
You are right

Because I called myself I didnt think about it that way. To be honest I can see how people would want to see the actual report. Gary, From what I heard from the call I believe you are in the right, However you should be able to get the report, I want to see the right things happen for you, and it really would be in your best interest to get the original report. That would definetly help you. Good luck and thank you
 
As I stated before, I am not on either side in this matter, because the matter is still fairly unclear, the specifics still being disputed (by at least one of the parties involved)...

I merely wrote what I had because it's the truth, Gary's story changed, his proof changed, the dates and illness and information KEPT CHANGING in response to questions that were raised.

It may have all been an honest mistake, but step back a moment and look at it from the seller's perspective. Someone makes a claim, you offer to correct the issue. The claim changes... there has not been any tangible proof provided about the situation, no details, no concrete information that allows the seller the comfort to know that something may have gone wrong from there end. The buyer states outright that there were other infected animals that (the important part here) DIED FIRST, which is generally a pretty strong indication of where the fault lies. The constantly changing details make it impossible to pin down a single timeline and a single connected series of events which leaves it possible that the buyer might be looking for something they are not entitled to.

Hay's Haven has a specific terms of service agreement that buyers agree to abide by when making purchases, detailed therein are the situations that the seller is responsible for AND the responsibilities of the buyer when contacting the seller about a problem and what sort of proof is required Gary continues to fail to meet the responsibilities that the buyer has in reporting and evidencing the claim.

As much as it seems it's usually the buyer being worked over by an unscrupulous seller, any transaction is a two way street, there is an obligation on both sides to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner and there are certain actions which must be taken when a problem does occur, actions on both the part of the seller and the buyer.

A changing story, a shifting timeline and failure to provide the proof that was agreed to in the event of any problems in advance of the purchase removes the burden of obligation from the seller and places it firmly on the buyer's shoulders.

Is it unfortunate if it is true about Hay's Haven and their animals being the source of the problem? Of course it is.

Does Gary need to realize that he failed in his responsibilities and needs to accept some of the culpability for the continued problems? I believe he does.

Is Gary going to get a refund at this point? I really doubt it, Hay's Haven has made their position on the matter clear and they are abiding by the agreement that was made prior to the purchase, so they are legally covered.

Beating a dead horse every day simply to bump a thread on the BOI is a gross misuse of the website, Webslave has made his position on these issues quite clear... As it is still an ongoing concern of Gary's, that isn't to say that he can never post a response again, but these daily non-updates do nothing but eat badwidth, waste time and push issues that may still be capable of resolution further down on the board, doing a disservice to the people involved on those threads. If he goes to court, fine, come back and post the result. If Hay's Haven changes their mind and issues a refund, good, come post that too... If he gets an actual Vet Report with the pertinent information, that might be worthy of an update... But those petty "he must be a crook because he said he wasnt giving me a refund" daily posts are needless and abusive of the forum.
 
ok i admit i let my temper get the best of me lately, an overly posted posts that jason is a crook. I got mad because of resent emails from him throwing up more accusations about things he says i have done. An it pissed me off so i was wrong to fly off here. my only point which is the geckos where sick on arrival, he states his reptiles are healthy, these where not. So under normal business practices i deserve a refund. i'll drop reminding him about him promising me replacements then finding them for sale on his web site, and when caught promising to ship when he has money and then breaking that deal. and stick to the meat of the problem. The albinos where sick when they arrived i don't trust him to send other reptiles so i want a refund. that is it in a nut shell. an as promised if he refunds my money i will post it on here to set the record straight. but i doubt that will happen.

Gary Bolton
 
letter

got a card in the mail. the Ill. state atty. generals office must feel i met their requirements for proof. they are investgating my complaint against Jason Hays. When i get this responce from they scanned i'll post it and any future information from them.


Gary Bolton
 
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