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Hay's Haven

other geckos

no the other geckos my fat tails where perfectly healthy til not long after the albinos arrived. i do serperate animals i just get in. this time thou i had no space on my case for the fat tails yet. needed to add more room. had room for the albinos thou, had 3 patternless females in a 30 gal i was gone to add them too. now i got rid of the tanks and when to a complete rack system for reg. reptiles. and a shoe box size rack system for new arrivals. i also got rid of all the tanks in the area of the albinos after they died. i even now keep the new arrival rack in a different room from my other reptiles. my snakes and skinks are too important to me.

gary bolton
 
Another curious question...

Gary, I just wondered why you've waited so long to post this issue...considering the original sale occurred in August of last year and they died week later, unless I have the dates confused...Also I wondered why we need to wait til tomorrow for the vet report since it occurred so long ago, or does the vet have to write it up again??? If he has to write it up again, I would have to say it may be difficult to go off of memory for him considering it was so long ago, unless it's in your file, which would mean it will have the August dates. Did you send a report to Jason ever???


Thanks,
Cori
 
I don't really know too much about the people who are posting on this, but if any of you are breeders consider this. If you sold me a gecko and the following week I called you and said that I had got geckos from another breeder. The other breeders geckos had a disease that killed the one you sent me. Would you replace the gecko you sent me or leave it up to the breeder who had sold me the sick gecko. I'm not saying that the breeder who sold him the fattails had sick animals. But Gary told me over the phone that the fattails had been replaced. Which would mean to me that he hadn't told them the same story he told me, or they more than likely wouldn't have replaced the geckos. Also, if his space was so limited what ever happened to the other 5 geckos that I sold him. The albinos were younger, but were kept in tanks right next to eachother in my house. How is it possible that he lost the 3 albinos, the baby fattails, and his entire fattail colony, without losing the other 5 geckos that I sold him. And I still can't get past the fact that the fattails died before the albinos. When he first called and said that one of the albinos had died, he told me then that he had already worked out replacements with the other breeder for the fattails. And if my husbandry is so bad why is he wanting to get another lizard from me instead of the money. If I honestly beleived that I had bought a lizard that killed a bunch of my other lizards, I would never even think about getting another lizard from that breeder.
Jason Hays
 
The timeline is essential here.

Gary, can you tell us who you bought the fattails from, and give us the dates that they arrived originally and the date they were replaced.

Still waiting for that vet report or some pics.
 
Jason,

But Gary told me over the phone that the fattails had been replaced.
Click to expand...

Even if you are right only written e-mail exchange will be proof of what was said.

Which would mean to me that he hadn't told them the same story he told me, or they more than likely wouldn't have replaced the geckos.
Click to expand...

Again, is the story he told you in writing?

When he first called and said that one of the albinos had died, he told me then that he had already worked out replacements with the other breeder for the fattails.

Proof from of the vet's diagnosis has been requested from Gary. Proof of what "he said" or "told you" in writing (other than the telephone conversations) would be useful to prove your point.

Regards.
Click to expand...
 
impartial testimony

I am really wanting to remain impartial in this conflict, but there are a few matters that might need clarification, and I am a witness to it all.

Gary bought my best hypo tang from last season, and has remained in contact since then. He has been polite and friendly every time we have talked. I value his friendship.

Hays lives 15 minutes away from me. I have known him for close to 4 years, and I have visited him often. On a few occasions unexpectedly. His setups are always clean, and from what I have seen he honestly cares about his animals. I have purchased 2 dragons off of him, and he bought one of my nicest dragons from last year.

I remember visiting Hays' house about a week before Gary bought them. He discussed taking them with us to the Indy show. I looked over all of the geckos in question,and they gave all appearances of being healthy. Hays decided against taking them to the show due to space limitations on the table we were sharing. I remember this incident well because Hays rarely gets time to attend shows with me, and it was one of my first successful shows! I know that Hays would not intentionally sell sick animals. I am not a vet, I am a breeder, so take my 2 cents for what it is worth.

All this has inspired me to make a VERY detailed TOS page just to cover my behind. Not that I would sell anything I knew was in poor health, but because I firmly believe that the reptiles I sell are in perfect health. I have no control over what happens to them in the hands of the new owners, and don't intend to be responsible for the consequences of actions that aren't mine.
Damin Kaylor http://www.dkreptile.com
 
first the fat tails where health til your albinos arrived. the fat tails where here for a month with no signs of disease.
then suddenly your geckos arrived an next morning the 1 female isn't moving. so since i have a vet appointment for them
i took them in. welp she was dead. tried to save the rest no luck. the other geckos you sent me yes where older and after
a lot of headaches giving them meds. they pulled through.

as for the breeder of the fat tails. he was Mark Leshock of M.L. Reptiles. hmm Mark has never had a problem dealing with me. ponder could it be that it is due to the fact he is straight foward woth me. Heck he even trusted me at the pottstown,pa show to leave with over $300 in reptiles without a signature and waited til her got home to run my charge card. but then according to jason i am a crook.

now back to the albinos, the same day i saw the vet i called you. you told me you had some eggs the one gecko i bought had laid and when they hatched you would send them to me. never got them. never got an email why. never got a call. then later i see one of those geckos for sale on your web site. email you. oh i will send it when i got the money to ship it. no mention of problems. never got it. again no email or call. tried again calling and emailing you. no responce til i decided to come here with my complaint. then sundenly these 2 mystery breeders show up. dam i love a good magic trick.... and with this past you wonder why i don't trust Jason anymore.. heck i wouldn't believe him is he told me the sky was blue...

as for being willing to take another lizard before i was willing to give you another chance. that was stupid of me. now once i post the letter from my vet all i want is my 150.00 back and nothing further to do with you. an yes postal money order please NO CHECK...

sorry to be rude to all the other folks just got done cleaning cages and read his reply. dang i get cranky after clean cages.. ; )

plus a dang mouse bit me too.:D

will have the vet letter tomorrow but don't except anything will change, hope this won't happen to someone else...

gary bolton
 
true damin your gecko was of top quality. only problem was she was a pig. she ate more food the any other female i had. but she was friendly and loved that super-hypo tang male. will get back to you about that dragon as soon as i find a new supplier for pro plan cat food. dang skinks won't eat anything else but pro plan chicken and turkey cat food and eggs. dumb male drowned another mouse thou.

sorry to get off the track don't get much time to call him long distance adds up.
gary bolton
 
There has been 4 days since your first post about this. Why is it that the first time I have heard of any problems with the other 5 geckos you bought from me is after I question you about why they weren't sick. Now all of a sudden they were sick too. I already explained my regrets on not telling you that I wasn't sending the gecko before I posted it on my site. But believe me, this is my only regret. The more you say, the more I believe that you are not telling the truth.
Jason Hays
 
Gary, can you tell us how your vet diagnosed the geckos with Streptococcus Pneumonia? In other words, were some kind of diagnostic tests performed or was this just a physical exam?

Are you actually telling us that one of your fat tail geckos died less than 24 hours after being exposed to the leopard geckos? Do you really believe that your healthy fat tail could contract Streptococcus Pneumonia from your leopard geckos and be dead the very next morning?

Also, Do you admit that the breeder of the fat tail geckos replaced them...and if so, why?
 
other five

ah no they where not sick. it is common practice when you get a sick animal shipped in a group you give all animals meds just in case it spreads. is just a better safe then sorry thing too do.
yes the albino where affected an died. not saying it was your fault. because Damin just reminded me about shipping after 9-11 might have been some of the headace too. but they didn't get sick due to anything i did. and i thought after i called you we had it worked out. then this all happen. as i stated i will post the vet letter. proving they where sick and died. once that is done it is up to you. if you don't honor your orginal agreement ok hey i lose 150.00. yes i'll be mad but that an a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee. I just don't like the way you treated me. i was straight with you, i expected the same back.

gary bolton
 
no the fat tail didn't die in 24 hours, and the breeder offer to help me get back on my feet breeding fat tail with a special deal. since him an i are friends and he wanted to help me get started out right. plus as he put it i never disagreed over price i always dealt in a fair business like manner. is the way i try to be. but when you get one like the albinos in an are told they are servely sick and you haven't had them for 24 hours and one dies and then the other 2 die even after you try what the vet tells you to do. an the others guy treats you as i have been treated. hey if he would have asked i would have even helpped paid for shipping the new geckos. no instand i get treated like a cow pie.

so now i'm pissed off.......................


gary bolton
 
vet report.

just got off of phone with asst. to dr shaw. he won't have me letter ready til monday. i can pick it up when i stop in for my 1:30 appt. all she said was some kind of problem at the animal shelter needed his attention. i know some will say this is just an excuse, but sorry it isn't #### happens. an for this area of penna. we are now in the flash flood alert time. has rain 4 out of 7 days for the past 3 to 4 weeks. anyone got a raft..:D

gary bolton
 
vets letter showing i was not at fault

LINCOLN HICHWA Y VETERINARY CLINIC
1833 LINCOLN HIGHWAY EAST
LANCASTER, PA. 17602
717-393-2444
June 16, 2003
To Whom it May Concern:
On September 3, 2002, Mr. Gary Bolton brought three leopard geckos to
my office. One of the geckos had died, and the other two geckos were
very lethargic and not eating. An autopsy was done on the expired gecko
which revealed fluid in the lungs. The other two geckos were sent home
on a liquid tetracycline that was to be given at two drops twice a day by
mouth for each one.
It is my best opinion that these geckos died from a stress related
pneumonia, perhaps accelerated by travel to their new home. If you have
any questions, please do not hesitate to call me at the above number.
Sincerely,

Dr. Nasir Shah, DVM
so since they where sicl on arrival i ask for my 150.00 back asap.

gary bolton
 
Post a scanned copy

You need to post a scanned copy, and attach it or hyperlink it or something, anyone could have typed that. Also, if this is from a vet it says stress related Pneumonia, I thought you said it was Strep????? If it was Pneumonia, it doesn't say it was a prior condition, it appears as though the vet felt it was caused by transport????
 
Gary,

It's a good start but it seems as if this was typed. You need to scan that letter (with letter head, signature, etc.) and post it here.
 
that is a scan copy i can email thefile to anyone or if you have a fax i can fax it to you. here is a photo of the letter just in case
 

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