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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Hay's Haven

sorry letter was not more in detail as it states jason can call dr shah if he has any questions. but as i stated they where sick before i got them. should i lost my 150.00 for them? i do not think so...

gary bolton
 
Gary,

Thanks for posting the vet report. When did you receive the geckos? Just to establish the time frame.

Thanks
 
I'm not accusing Gary of anything here, but I think it's really strange to read a Vet's writing about doing an "autopsy" on an animal. My sis ter is a Vet, and she (and other vets I've known) is (are) very particular about referring to the procedure as a "necropsy." "Autopsies" are for people.

There are lots of reasons why this might be, though. It may not be anything at all, but that is just wierd.

:confused:
 
This is a purely innocent question here...

Is anyone else unable to read the vet's contact information at the top of the page?

I ask because I've got pretty bad eyes and I'm using Almost On Line right now and it has a habit of failing to fully load certain images and I can't make out the information in the header of the scanned report.

On a slightly less innocent note... Can anyone uninvolved with this dispute verify the existance and credibility of the vet as named? I ask because the name was reported to have failed to come up when searching for vets in the area...

Fuzzy picture + unlisted Vet + misuse of common terms + subtly changing story/timeline = hopefully unfounded suspicions
 
recieved the geckos the morning of 9/3/2002 same day i took them to the vet. dr. shah is a vet at Lincoln Hgy Veterinary Clinic in Lancaster, Penna. He is well known in this area and is the Vet. the local humane Leaque recomends to all animal owners. asstated earlier he states if jason has any questions he can call him. but the shipping accellerated their death from a illness they had before they where shipped. if anyone has a fax machine i can fax the letter to them.

gary bolton
 
For what it's worth, the veterinary clinic cited on the paper is listed in the white pages for Lancaster, PA, and the same contact information is given. Dr. Nasir Shah is not specifically listed in either the white or yellow pages, but that doesn't mean anything. The reason I could not find any referrence to Dr. Shah previously, may very well be because the Dr's name was spelled "Shaw" earlier in the thread.

I did call another local veterinary hospital today, and asked if Dr. Nasir Shah worked with that hospital. They told me that Dr. Shah did not work with them, but that there was a Dr. Shah at the Lincoln Highway Animal Clinic.

;)
 
Good enough then, there's been a few forged receipts (for fake hets) in the past month and it's made me wary of taking paperwork at face value, the slightly blurry nature of the picture intensified that a bit.
 
Still wondering...

What about the strep???? I thought you had said originally it was strep...just curious...also this report is from this weekend, did you get a report at the time of the necroscopy?? Was this specific medical info ever given to Jason, if not why get it now why did you wait??? I also wonder how the Dr. remembers so clearly something that occurred 9 months ago, if he's looking in records then he should provide the records dated for that time...
 
question to other breeders

ok a vet says that shipping accelerated the pneumonia. which means they where sick before i got them. So is it wrong for me to ask for a refund? after all that has happen would you trust the breeder to ship you other reptiles? sorry but i don't trust hay's haven and all i want is my 150.00 i paid for the albinos back. is that fair?

gary bolton
 
still curious

your not answering my question, i see what the paper says now but I'm talking about what you originally said, it's difficult to sort it out if you change stories or don't answer questions,
or even tell me, no you read it wrong,
or i didn't say that,
or yes i made a mistake
or he said that then and he says this now, whatever

just trying to understand, some things just aren't adding up..

However, I do agree if the animals were in fact sick before you got them and he intentionally sent sick animals then he has bad business practices and we should all know about it and you should be refunded, if he sent them and it was unintentional then yes you should be refunded, however you have the burden of proof, that's why I ask....
 
Asuncion7
as to your question i call him the 9/3 informed him of the problem. he immed. offered to send me other geckos from eggs he was hatching. thought it was solved. then later i saw one ofthe geckos he promised me for sale on his web site so i contacted him again he said he would ship it again i trusted him. not until recently did i hear about his complaints. other wise i would have provided him with the letter of proof earlier. now that it is posted i am waiting to see what he does. if he mades good on the sale i will immendly post it along with a scan of the payment proving he resolved the problem. up to him now.

gary bolton
 
as stated by the vet i took the 3 geckos to his office 9/3 which was the day i got then. since they could not have got sick in my care that fast. they where sick before i got them. i won't say jason did this on knowingly, because Damin told me the animals where ok when he saw them in July. But they where sick before i got them and for that reason i request a refund which i am entitle to. simple problem simple solution.

gary bolton
 
There is now a name of a vet, a vet report, and the contact info for that vet. Jason has all the information in hand to call and verify this information. According to Gary (and the date in the report) the geckos were taken to the vet clinic the day they arrived. From my perspective that rules out the possibility of the fat tails being the source of the disease but it seems as if the albinos were already sick. Again this can be easily confirmed by Jason calling the clinic and talking with the vet.

Regards.
 
one day

well posted vet letter yesterday and emailed it to him still no responce from him. hoping for the best. but not counting on it.

gary bolton
 
I haven't got the experience that some of you have at evaluating all the evidence, but I find this letter from the vet to be highly questionable. First off, every vet I have ever visited has a folder with write up sheets for every animal. Should be easy enough to pull out this folder and the specific evaluation for that animal and that day and copy it.

Second, I agree with Darin that no vet is going to mistakenly use autopsy in place of necropsy.

In the letter, the vet deduced that fluid in the lungs meant pnuemonia and prescribed tetracycline. Every vet that I know of would have run a culture to determine the the actual infective agent. Where are the culture results? I really have to question the competance of this vet if she/he is real. Why prescribe tetracycline for what sounds like a respiratory infection. Any vet worth their salt knows that in reptiles you need an antibiotic that will be active for gram-negative (hope I got that right) bacteria so an antibiotic like Baytril or Amykacin is preferred. What happened to the accusation that the geckos died of cellulitis? So we have gone from a skin disorder to a respiratory infection.

Sorry but this story is all over the board with no pictures and no documentation.
 
wording on the letter

ok enough woth the wording problem I have asked other vets. an they all state either word is exceptable. dr shah uses autopsy instead of necropsy for the fact all people are not vet term literate. it still means the samething. the point of fact is the 3 albino geckos where sick on arrival one was in fact had died, i tried to save the other 2 but they died from the illness. vet states most likely the shipping caused the illness to get worst due to the stress of shipping. which is not my fault. not blaming jason for doing this on purpose. but the fact is it happen. so for that reason i ask for my money back. to make things right. dr shah has offered jason the chance to call if he has any questions.

gary bolton
 
In the quote below is what Gary said:

and the geckos had CELLULITIS the first one also had STREP PNEMONIA due to her condition with the other disease. vet gave me TETRACYCOINE to give the other 2 which died later even after med, pediolite, warm water, and heat lamps failed to help them.
Click to expand...

And in the quote below is what the vet said:

The other two geckos were sent home on a liquid tetracycline that was to be given at two drops twice a day by mouth for each one. It is my best opinion that these geckos died from a stress related pneumonia, perhaps accelerated by travel to their new home.
Click to expand...

It would be very simple for Jason to call the vet and verify if he had originally diagnosed cellulitis in those geckos. After all it is possible that after all this time he forgot to include it in this second report. It seems that from here on the course of action is up to Jason.

Regards.
 
Gary lied to me too many times for me to even count. Now he's lied to all of you. With that said, I've said all I can without having written proof. There are still too many unanswered questions for me to ship him anything. This will be the last time I post on this subject. I still feel comfortable enough in the fact that I'm not the wrong one in this situation to leave your future purchases up to you. Nothing like this has ever happened before and I guarantee that it never will again. Like I said before. I can send references, or you can read the post by Damin and know that I am an honest person, who genuinely cares for his reptiles. Thank you to everyone who has tried to get to the truth on this matter.
Jason Hays
 
i posted the proof from the vet. he even gave you his phone number. i knew no matter what proof i showed the answer would still be the same. you sent me sick geckos, the vet confirmed it. that is not my fault. i don't want any other reptiles from you. i won't put the rest of my reptiles in harms way by doing that. but it seems you think it is ok to take someone else money for sick animals that die. welp what happens from now on happens.

gary bolton
 
ok you question what i said now i have showed proof they died from an illness that they had when i got them. now what the vet lies too. the same vet that all 3 groups in lancaster,pa that deal in protecting animal use. one of them being the local humane league or animal shelter as some call them. well if they trust him i sure do. he even offered you the chance to call him. like i said before they died from an illness from before i got them. all i want now is the 150.00 i paid for them back. you stated they where health i have proven they where not. honor the sales agreement.

gary bolton
 
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