help with possible morph?

[RyanF]

I have an odd looking female I bred in 2013 and produced a male with the same odd characteristics. Ive also produced pastel and fires that look odd.
i bred the 2013 male back to the mother and produced a clutch of nine and all nine babies have the oddities of the parents. Do these seem like a new morph? The pics are of the original female, a male and female 2014 and the 2015 clutch of nine.
can anyone help me out?

Greatly appreciated!

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

It's just line breeding. I bred the same pastel HGW male to two different females, and the babies in the two clutches look completely different.

One female has a fairly black back that's really blushed out, and she popped out pastels with the same black backed pattern that look awesome. The other female was just a busy patterned normal, her pastels all came out with busier patterns. I'll try to snap a good pic quick so you can see what I mean. As far as I know it's just line-breeding though, they look normal to me.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

First pic is the black backed mom, second is the pastel baby she had. She also had two normals that came out looking similar to her.

Third pic is the other mom (currently in shed) but you can see she just has a busier pattern, fourth pic is one of her pastel babies (no normals in that clutch).

Again, same dad in both cases, only difference was the mom. You have to figure that just because a snake isn't a morph doesn't mean that it's not going to pass on half of its genetics/characteristics.

 

[RyanF]

Here is a fire and a pastel. They had clutch mates that were fire and pastel and looked normal these however have stood out from hatching. Would the banded/striping of a normal shine through on other morphs?
Unfortunately I don't have comparison pics of the fires or pastels

Thanks

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Yea it ends up coming through. That's why you hear of "genetic black back" or "genetic banded". Like I said before, just because the female is a normal doesn't mean her genetics don't play a part in the babies. Just like anything else, the genes are 50/50, it's just that some things (what we call morphs) overpower other characteristics due to them being codom/dom.

If you give those babies a week to shed out that yellow will all fade. They always come out looking super cool and then fade into dullness haha. I'm not saying I'm sure without a doubt but I'd put money on them being nice normals.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

If you look at the first pastel I showed, that's from my black backed mom. He came out with the same black back which makes the pastel really pop. Looks way different than the pastels from the other mom even though they had the exact same dad. Even the pastel HGW's I got from both moms look way different.

I'd sell the cooler patterned ones for more but I wouldn't call it a morph. Just nice genetics.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Also, if you paired the son to the mom and all of the babies end up coming out looking the same, that's a pretty good indication that it's just line breeding. You would expect to get a couple that looked extremely plain, a couple that looked like mom or dad, and a couple that looked way cooler than mom and dad, if it was something that was a codom mutation. If they all came out looking the same, that's pretty good odds that there's nothing else there. Not guaranteed, but statistically speaking out of 9 eggs, and just the fact that they look like normals, I think you can be pretty sure.

 

[RyanF]

I see what your saying. I'd have to agree. I appreciate your help

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Again, that's just my opinion/view, someone else might disagree. But with a 9 egg clutch I would expect to see some sort of noticeable variation if it was a morph, especially if both parents were carriers.

 

[RyanF]

Thanks! What your saying makes perfect sense.


Have you ever had this happen with a clutch? This is from a totally different female. These are 2 fires from the same clutch. The yellow belly shed out with the first shed. But the animal still has a yellowish wash over the body. Very weird I thought.

Not sure why all my pics are upside down. Sorry

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Huh, now that I have no idea. Maybe someone else has had experience with this, that might be one to hold on to.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

We had a few fires that were way brighter and lighter than most others I've seen, but they were all from the same dad. Weird that those two would be clutchmates but still so different.

 

[RyanF]

I ended up with a pair of these odd fires so I'm definitely going to see what else can be done with them.
appreciate the help!