• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

How can there be a het leather?

OEdwards

OEdwards

New member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
194
Reaction score
4
Points
0
Location
Alabama, Florence, USA
I mean it is a dominant or a co-dominant gene so how is it possible to produce a het leather. Or are people just saying that to add "value" to their reptile.
Okay so I saw an ad in the bearded dragons for sale forum and someone had posted that the parents of the father of their clutch was from two leathers so there for he is het leather but that does not mean they are het leather nor is the father.
OEdwards
 
lol. I dont know about beardie morphs, but if it is a dom or co-dom then no, there cant be a het. This reminds me just the other day I had to stop and think for a second when I saw an ad on kingsnake for a het lucy ball. At first I was like.. oh score, then I was like, ... wait a second.... theres no such thing as a het lucy!!!
 
Het leather

From what I understand their is a recessive leatherback out their a few people are working with. I'm no expert but I do know a friend that does work with a couple and they visually look more like the American smoothie and not as smooth and uniform as the Italian leather that is co-Dom. I'm sure someone with more experience with them will chime in. I will call my friend and ask more about them and post my findings.
 
Het leathers have a poss chance to make smoothies from my under standing aswell. Crazy but they are becoming more rare from what I've heard...
 
Well let me ask you guys this out of the many a breeder that have these so called hets has any body ever bred two "hets" and gotten leathers.
 
Also a certain breeder I am not gonna say who but has hypotrans "Het leathers" on page 3 or 4 of the for sale forum said the fathers parents were both leather and he is not so he would be a het so lets put this into more understandable terms.
Here would be the outcomes of all the combinations of two leather parents.
Dominant-all babies leather
Co-Dom- Silks, Leathers and Normal Scaled
Reseccive-Leathers(consider that when you have two Trans a reseccive gene for example you get all Trans and it is a reseccive gene thus you'd get all leathers)
So how in the world did this person have "het leathers".
Thanks,
OEdwards
 
Last edited:
There are only a few people today that are currently working with the recessive leather gene. From what I've seen, the only breeders consistently working with them are Tammy at Draggintails, Inc and Josh D. at Phantom Dragons (the one who "created" the recessive leathers). Not to say that others aren't (for example, I know that David at Carolina Classic Dragons has a future breeder/breeder that is both a recessive and co-dom leather), but those are the few breeders that have consistently listed them in the past, that actually know what they're talking about.

Genetics 101:

Co-Dominant Genes (Italian/American co-dom leathers)-
Leather X Normal-Scaled animal= 50% leathers, 50% normal-scaled, NO hets
Leather X Leather= 50% leathers, 25% normal-scaled, 25% super form (silkbacks)

Dominant Genes (Dunners)-
Dunner X Normal-Scaled animal= 50% dunners, 50% normal-scaled, NO hets
Dunner X Dunner= 100% dunners (seeing as no one has bred a dunner to a dunner yet, it is still possible that dunners could end up being a co-dominant trait)

Recessive Genes (recessive leathers, hypos, trans, witblits, axanthics, etc)-
Recessive leather X normal-scaled animal= 100% hets
Recessive leather X recessive leather= 100% recessive leathers
Recessive leather X het. recessive leather= 50% recessive leathers, 50% het for recessive leathers
het. Recessive leather X het. recessive leather= 25% recessive leathers, 50% het. for recessive leathers, 25% normal animals.

I hope that helps to explain the genetics of these animals better.
 
^^^I dont think a dunner X dunner is going to give 100% dunners. Just saying, it would be more like 25% regular, 50% dunner, and 25% super. if there is no super, it'll probably be 75% dunner 25% regular. right? I mean who knows really, but if both parents each give the baby a 50 50 shot of being dunner, I think that will still leave 25% who the genes miss completely

rest looks pretty good though :)
 
Actually there are many people working with recessive leathers.

The italian leathers are co-doms.

Ask questions before you purchase your leatherback to make sure you are getting the type you want to work with.
 
jmp745-
The limited research that I've done on dominant genes has yielded that a dominant to dominant gene pairing will produce animals all showing the dominant trait. Attached is a picture of a punnett square showing this cross (picture taken from the website of New England Reptile Distributors). If you find other info contrary to this, please let me know. :)

I'm curious, Ed- who else has consistently produced recessive leathers?
 

Attachments

  • domXdom.jpg
    domXdom.jpg
    47.3 KB · Views: 78
actually on http://www.worldofballpythons.com genetic wizard if you put spider to spider you get 75% spider and 25% regular. So I might be right. We dont really have simple dominant traits for beardies, so maybe some snake guys could shed some light on what happens if there is no super dunner.
 
That is very interesting- now that you mention it, I do remember listening to an interview with Brian Barcyk where he discussed all dominant traits really being co-dominant. Instead of there being a "super" form that was phenotypically different, it appeared the same as any other dominant form, but produced as a "super" form would. For example- breeding two dunners together. 25% normal scaled, 50% dunner, and 25% "super" dunner. The "super" dunners would produce as a silkback would compared to a leatherback. So when breeding the "super" dunner to a normal-scaled animal you would get 100% dunners instead of only 50%. You would have to hold back a large amount of the clutch to prove it out, but it's definitely an interesting thought.
 
Back
Top