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I am looking for an emerald with a regurge problem

DavidButton

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I know this sounds like a strange request, but read on and you will understand.
After I recieved my adult pair of LTC northern emeralds earlier this year I had a problem with one of them regurging. After that happened and after speaking to an emerald breeder that told me that they had to put down 10 or 12 imported adults because of cronic regurging I started doing some deep research into emeralds in the wild and what they eat. That led me to the aboreal rice rat which by all accounts of research on emeralds in the wild was their staple food. Then I started doing research on aboreal rice rats which is a very obscure thing on the internet I assure you. But I finally tracked down enough information about them and found some interesting differences in what they eat and what the feeders that we normally buy eat.
The aboreal rice rat eats only fruit, seeds and nuts that are found in the rainforest canopy as opposed to it's terrestrial cousins that eat seeds, bugs and a large assortment of other things including scavenging on carcases of dead animals.
SO the big difference comes down to protiens. Animal based Vs. plant based. And we all know that most big rodent breeders bulk their feed with high protien dog food which is high in animal protiens.
All this led me to start a breeding project with some mice in which I would feed them only seeds and fruit. So I started with a 1.2 trio of mice and fed them papaya, starfruit, mango and an assortment of seed. At first they weren't too interested in the fruit, but readily ate the seeds. Then after a week or so they sarted eating the papaya(which has become their favorite) and other fruits readily, but still only a little at a time. Then came the second generation. They eat the papaya slices down to and including the rind and devour all the seed they can get. They are lean but healthy and have nice smooth and glossy coats.
I started feeding them to my male when they got big enough and what do you know, he had no regurge problem and passed them through with no problems at all.
Now I am on my third generation of these fruit and seed eating mice and am trying to find someone that has an emerald with a regurge problem so that I can send them some of my mice so that they can try feeding with them to see if the snake keeps them down.
If all goes well I will setup a rodent rack and start breeding more of these SF(seed and fruit) mice so that more people can get them for their emeralds. So if you know of anyone that has an emerald with this problem please contact me and I will send out some frozen mice as soon as they are big enough which should be in about 3 weeks. That is unless it is a neonate or juvi, in which case I have some ready now. These will be sent free of charge to the person just to help prove my theory. I have already pretty much proven this already, but I want more data from other sources.



David
 
I seen a couple of emerald tree boas in the classifieds. But as for as the regurge problem...I dont know about that...

Sorry if I wasnt any help. =<
 
Nice job David! It's nice to see someone thinking outside of the box to find a solution to a problem.
Let us know how things go when you're able to collect more data.
Chris
 
That was well done David. Please keep us posted on the results. This could be quite a breakthrough.
 
David, that sound like you are on to something. Good job and good luck, hopefully you have found that missing link for imports and better food for the CBB. I wish you the best of luck.
 
Well so far nobody has come forward with an emerald that has a regurge problem. With all the imports every year I know that there has to be a few out there, but no one that has them has either read this post or wants to admit that one of their animals has a regurge issue.
My emeralds, on the other hand, are both doing great on these mice and are eating a pooping in a very regular manner. The male that was giving me trouble, and getting skinny from never fully digesting his food, is now looking great and has a nice rounded look and his ribbs can no longer be seen at all.


David
 
You might have to spread out promotion of your theory to other forums and to breeders and keepers that don't frequent Fauna.

Active science requires creative thinkers!

You may have just opened the doors to other theories and solutions. Thanks for sharing.
 
Wow, David incredible line of thinking. Ever check the arboreal forum over at KS? I see lots of posts over there about regurging ETBs. Maybe you can help one off those people.
 
BoaMan Jon said:
Wow, David incredible line of thinking. Ever check the arboreal forum over at KS? I see lots of posts over there about regurging ETBs. Maybe you can help one off those people.

That is the ONE forum that I haven't posted about this on. I have been to several aboreal only forums with no results. And also to several generalized forums such as fauna with nothing. I will have to spread my web a bit and see what gets caught, LOL!


David
 
Sorry for bringing this back up, but anyone else come forth and have tried your SF mice? I'd love to know!
 
How bout a Cribo?

First let me say that you have done some very good work! Kudos to you for digging deeper, and looking for the bottom line answere to a question which has plaigued many of us!

I only keep one ATB, a real sweetheart, and a pet. He's never regurged, but I do have a breeder unicolor cribo who has regurged on several occasions. He has also passed meals out the other end before they were completely digested. I'm told by the breeder who sold him to me that his problems are temperature related. He says I should not employ any heat source whatsoever in the cage, and that anything over 73 degrees is too much. So I have lowered the temp a few degrees, and we'll see what happens after he comes out of shed. Although, the regurgitation has only occurred when temps hit 78. I just don't see how that could be the real problem. I know they come from UPLAND, Central America,...but it's Central America none the less. It is HOT down there. Truthfully your theory makes better sense to me, than his does. So I would love to try him on your mice if you still have some. I did not read the entire thread, so I may be a bit too late. But if you would like to give it a try, my name is Tony Carlisle, from Missouri. You can e-mail me at; [email protected]
Now I'll go read some more. Thanks a bunch,
T.
P.S. Here's a pic of my office assistant.
 

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David-
I hope I'm not too late. I just have been getting back into the snakes and my first ETB, a beautiful patternless has regurged her last two meals, the latest a couple days ago. I have been freaking out lately about the whole thing, she is being kept in the correct setup temp range etc. She's a 3-4 foot import, and ate a large mouse first, a regular mouse second, neither lasted a week before regurge. She's perfect every other way, she has shed in one piece and defecated a solid fecal. I'd be crushed if I lost her. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Keith can give us more info on the Emmy and its set up IE temps, Humidity, what kind of cage. is the animal WC or CBB, where did you get it? adult, juvie, baby? Where is the cage at in your house IE high or low traffic area. I've been keeping these guys for years and unless it's a fresh WC I wouldn't panic quite yet. Randy
 
Does anyone know how to get ahold of this guy?

I responded to this thread, I sent him an e-mail, and I sent him a private message. You'd think one of the three would have stimulated a response. Nothing. It's like he posted this potentialy great information, got us all stirred up, and then dropped off the face of the earth. So does anyone know how to get in touch with the initial author of this thread; David Button? I'd really like to give his veggi mice a try! Thanks,
T.
[email protected]
 
Hey Ya'll-
I got to talk to David, and he was plenty eager to help. It sounds like he is out of the FS mice at the moment, and he is working with hairless rats now. I'm trying to round up a few mice to start this project for my emmys. I'd like to find Swiss mice (large litter size) if possible, but been having trouble tracking some down. At very least some healthy, parasite free mice would be nice to start. My gal with the problem (northern import 3-4 ft), originally was housed in a 3 ft. Neodesha w.\2 3\4in. dowels. I had a 23wt.=100wt. output flouescent bulb on her, heat under water bowl, temps ranged 77-88 on perches day time\ night time 76, w.\plenty humidity and air flow. She is quarantined in my bedroom (low trafic). After her first regurge (large mouse), I thought she may have been to cold. I added a 40 wt. to this a week before her second feeding, raising her hot spot to 95. She ate a regular mouse three weeks after the first, then regurged a week after. I'm now thinking that may have been too warm and that her belly was swelling\digesting too fast. She is now kept in a Barrs pvc 16x16x20 enclosure w.\ 3 dowels 3\4 in. varried height. Heat pad under half with water, and 40wt. bulb. Day temps range 82-92 on perches\ night time 79. Am I still too warm? What do ya'll think? I'd appreciate any info.
 
I have had the best luck maintaining emeralds at a constant temp of 84, but there are a number of factors to consider: Humidity is huge. Temperature ranges - this can be in an issue with arboreal setups...and it sometimes takes a bit of work to get things right. I would shoot for more consistency, and less of a variance...say 82 at the coolest spot, to no more than 87-88 at the warmest.

You make it sound like you have other ETBs, is that the case?
 
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