Seamus Haley
Big Game Hunter
Right now according to the list of rules infractions, posting a message in an inappropriate forum has a warning level of one, but no warning points attached to it... I am of the opinion that this should be changed to include warning points.
If I recall the discussion thread where Rich asked about which warnings should be used and what kind of penalties attached to each, the general consensus seemed to be that anyone posting in an inappropriate forum would likely be making an honest mistake (i.e.- the people who sometimes put BOI posts in the feedback forums, they were simply a tad confused and shouldn't be penalized for an innocent mistake). I don't believe it occured to anyone that people would be deliberately creating posts in the wrong forum knowing in advance that it was in fact, the wrong forum.
Lately however a few forums have become introverted, with members posting only in a specific forum where they have grown accustomed to the other individuals there, rather than in a forum which would be appropriate for the subject matter. As a hypothetical example "Here's a picture of my dog!" in the venomous forum... Concrete and obvious examples are all over the board however I'd like to keep THIS thread generalized if possible, discussing the broader issue rather than specific cases.
This kind of clannish mentality only hurts the community and the board as a whole in multiple ways. It hampers larger discussions and site growth by hiding conversations in inappropriate areas, using my above hypothetical example, the only people who would participate would be those interested in BOTH venomous snakes AND dogs. Only those interested in venomous snakes would be in the forum it was found, only those interested in dogs would see the thread and potentially participate. Rather than an excellent well exposed and meaningful thread in the mammal forums which would generate interest from everyone who'd like to see photos of a dog, it's left with a smaller audience and the mammal forums are left unused. This becomes even worse when new users may be browsing the forums prior to registering or actively participating, doubly so when it involves a husbandry or biology subject. So discussion in some forums stagnates due to a lack of use. When there are few (or no) posts to begin with, people are less likely to post additional threads there, believing the message would be ignored. Additionally, rather than having a large forum of active users ALL interacting when their interests coincide on diverse topics, you get a large number of small groups who interact only with one another. A limited number of participants means a limited number of possible conversations, after which even those forums which were being used (sometimes inappropriately) stagnate as well... or go entirely in the toilet as the number of off topic threads increases.
There was a LOT of discussion and thought put into the current arrangement for the forums. Rich has supplied his users with virtually EVERYTHING they could possibly want, down to forums wholely devoted to non-animal non-business related topics (Sound Off, General BS) even going so far as to create a forum entirely for childish fights because it's what his users wanted. Isolationist posts where an individual chooses to ignore the forum topic and posting guidelines make all of that thought and effort entirely meaningless, wasted on ungrateful masses.
The only really worthwhile argument I have seen to justify these blatant violations of the rules would be those which state that forming such groups enhances community. While I have already explained why it damages the herp keeping community as a whole, it does strengthen the limited sense of community within a given microdemographic (I may have just made that word up). However even this is not a valid reason for so flagrantly breaking the rules, as Fauna includes additional tools for sharing your posts with a specific community. The user control panel includes a buddy list- if the regular posters of a specific forum wish to share a topic they have created within a seperate forum, believing they may have something to contribute, it's a matter of mere seconds to create the thread in the appropriate forum and send a private message to ALL their buddies with a link to the thread.
I believe that fairly well sums up my position on the matter, for what it may be worth as an individual poster with regular participation. Given the arguments presented above, I believe that this is a more serious infraction than it was originally conceived of being and that perhaps stricter enforcement may be warranted. It would mean additional work for the moderators in the short term, but given time I believe it would correct the situation. An application similar to the full name rule perhaps... When it's obvious an innocent mistake was made, a friendly correction is made. When it's obviously intentional, more severe penalties for the first few infractions (warning points for instance) and repeat offenders risk having their posts deleted without warning.
To this post I'm going to attach a poll with a few options. I will try my best to make them impartial but I'd ask that anyone who feels strongly one way or the other add a written reply explaining their position and the reasons behind it as well. The final decision is of course in the hands of Rich and the moderators, but history shows that this site is *fairly* democratic and that at least voicing the concerns is accepted and even encouraged, regardless of what decision is eventually made.
If I recall the discussion thread where Rich asked about which warnings should be used and what kind of penalties attached to each, the general consensus seemed to be that anyone posting in an inappropriate forum would likely be making an honest mistake (i.e.- the people who sometimes put BOI posts in the feedback forums, they were simply a tad confused and shouldn't be penalized for an innocent mistake). I don't believe it occured to anyone that people would be deliberately creating posts in the wrong forum knowing in advance that it was in fact, the wrong forum.
Lately however a few forums have become introverted, with members posting only in a specific forum where they have grown accustomed to the other individuals there, rather than in a forum which would be appropriate for the subject matter. As a hypothetical example "Here's a picture of my dog!" in the venomous forum... Concrete and obvious examples are all over the board however I'd like to keep THIS thread generalized if possible, discussing the broader issue rather than specific cases.
This kind of clannish mentality only hurts the community and the board as a whole in multiple ways. It hampers larger discussions and site growth by hiding conversations in inappropriate areas, using my above hypothetical example, the only people who would participate would be those interested in BOTH venomous snakes AND dogs. Only those interested in venomous snakes would be in the forum it was found, only those interested in dogs would see the thread and potentially participate. Rather than an excellent well exposed and meaningful thread in the mammal forums which would generate interest from everyone who'd like to see photos of a dog, it's left with a smaller audience and the mammal forums are left unused. This becomes even worse when new users may be browsing the forums prior to registering or actively participating, doubly so when it involves a husbandry or biology subject. So discussion in some forums stagnates due to a lack of use. When there are few (or no) posts to begin with, people are less likely to post additional threads there, believing the message would be ignored. Additionally, rather than having a large forum of active users ALL interacting when their interests coincide on diverse topics, you get a large number of small groups who interact only with one another. A limited number of participants means a limited number of possible conversations, after which even those forums which were being used (sometimes inappropriately) stagnate as well... or go entirely in the toilet as the number of off topic threads increases.
There was a LOT of discussion and thought put into the current arrangement for the forums. Rich has supplied his users with virtually EVERYTHING they could possibly want, down to forums wholely devoted to non-animal non-business related topics (Sound Off, General BS) even going so far as to create a forum entirely for childish fights because it's what his users wanted. Isolationist posts where an individual chooses to ignore the forum topic and posting guidelines make all of that thought and effort entirely meaningless, wasted on ungrateful masses.
The only really worthwhile argument I have seen to justify these blatant violations of the rules would be those which state that forming such groups enhances community. While I have already explained why it damages the herp keeping community as a whole, it does strengthen the limited sense of community within a given microdemographic (I may have just made that word up). However even this is not a valid reason for so flagrantly breaking the rules, as Fauna includes additional tools for sharing your posts with a specific community. The user control panel includes a buddy list- if the regular posters of a specific forum wish to share a topic they have created within a seperate forum, believing they may have something to contribute, it's a matter of mere seconds to create the thread in the appropriate forum and send a private message to ALL their buddies with a link to the thread.
I believe that fairly well sums up my position on the matter, for what it may be worth as an individual poster with regular participation. Given the arguments presented above, I believe that this is a more serious infraction than it was originally conceived of being and that perhaps stricter enforcement may be warranted. It would mean additional work for the moderators in the short term, but given time I believe it would correct the situation. An application similar to the full name rule perhaps... When it's obvious an innocent mistake was made, a friendly correction is made. When it's obviously intentional, more severe penalties for the first few infractions (warning points for instance) and repeat offenders risk having their posts deleted without warning.
To this post I'm going to attach a poll with a few options. I will try my best to make them impartial but I'd ask that anyone who feels strongly one way or the other add a written reply explaining their position and the reasons behind it as well. The final decision is of course in the hands of Rich and the moderators, but history shows that this site is *fairly* democratic and that at least voicing the concerns is accepted and even encouraged, regardless of what decision is eventually made.
