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input on wether or not I should give a refund

Rob @ RK Reptiles

Rob @ RK Reptiles

ballpythonmorphs.net
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I sold an adult pair of Indian Star Tortoise to a customer.  They are in perfect health. Nothign was asked about if their scutes were even, or if the striations all lined up exactly. I took pictures of every animal available, even took more of certain animals this customer wanted to see, and the customer even changed his mind to the female he received.  I guaranteed live healthy arrival as according to my terms.  They arrived perfect and healthy.  Now the person has decided he does not like a couple os scutes on the animal as they are to close to each other.  and the other females he says one has the same thing, and the other has her striation on her back do not look like they are perfectly straight in line.  Now he wants a full refund and wants to send the animals back to me.  I am a little pissed here as I sold the animals represented the best I could, told him everthing I could about them, (I did not even see the scutes he was talking about) and took as many pics of them as I could get that were clear, and now I am getting stuck holding the bag.  Any help would be appreciated.
 
I don't know (at this point) if my opinion is going to mean much...but...I will ALWAYS stick up for my FRIENDS!! (hint, hint&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Rob...I really don't think you owe him anything! You sent him many pics....he picked the two he wanted....they were delivered in perfect health...and NOW he decides (for reasons of his own) that he doesn't want them....sorry...that's not how it works!
 
Did the pictures accurately depict the animals? If they did, you owe him nothing. If they did not show the areas of the shell that he was concerned about. Refund the money. Why not post them here so we can see what they looked like?
Ross Buskard
 
Neils correct. You don't owe him anything and when you purchase an item or service and it's represented correctly then that's the end of the deal.

Now if you want to work with the customer. Charge him a 15% restocking fee (it's not really a restocking fee as that sounds weird when your dealing with an animal, but rather covers your time in dealing with the customer, shipping, etc). This would allow the customer to recoup some of his investment (keeping him happy) and allow you to recoup some of your investment (keeping you sane  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> ). Again, this is not required of you but could smooth over what can become a bad situation and make everyone happy.
 
Rob, here's what I would do.  Take the animals back (they pay shipping) and give them an 70-80% refund.  Keep 20-30% as a animal rental fee.  Because that's basically what they did.  Ordered animals kept them for awhile and then decided they didn't want them anymore.  This way they get some of their money back, and, most importantly, the animals get back into hands were they will be cared for properly.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. I can't stand when I do everythign I can to represent an animal and then they change their minds for what ever reason.  Damn I wish I could do the same thing when I order animals from my suppliers.  Keep them a week and then say " I have decided I do not want these animals, please kindly refund my money"  I am about to put into my "terms" "all live animal sales are final. No refunds except under special ocasions which I deem special." I just don't know.  But thanks again everyone.
 
Rob,

Since you did not have a terms page at the time of sale, you are somewhat bound up. You sent him pictures of the animals, so he could clearly see for himself what condition they were in BEFORe purchase. However, from a strictly business poin of view the guy is bad P.R. , regardless if he is at fault. if you had given him a terms page prior to sale, or made it available for him to read, I would tell you to ask him to politely go on about his life, that you wouldnt consider a refund because you HAD clearly shown him what they looked like.
    But with no terms page, I would say refund his money in full, despite the fact that you KNOW you did your utmost to prevent buyers remorse here. And that is exactly what we are talking about, simply buyers remorse, nothing more.
Refund the money, repost the animals with a disclaimer and a terms page(policy)

P.S.

Doesnt stuff like this just frazzle your nerves?


                                     Take care,


                                          Fred
 
personally, i wouldn't take them back.  you have no idea what they have been exposed to.  they could have contracted diseases while in his care and that could spread to the rest of your collection or it could lay dormant until you resold them and then it wipes out your new customers collection.  you did the very best you could to represent these animals properly.  i think your customer is going to have to get over the "buyers remorse" and just deal with it.  at BEST, i would offer to help the customer to find exactly what it is they are looking for and that's it.  you can't be held responsible for their flightiness when it comes to decisions about animals.
just my .02,
 
It has been said all too often:

No dealer can please EVERY customer, EVERY time.

Rob,

I believe you did everything you could to satisfy this customer. I believe you accurately represented your animals to the best of your ability. If scutes and striations were truly  as critical to the customer as he/she is now reporting to you, then the customer never should have retained possession for any amount of time. They should have informed you of dissatisfaction immediately upon arrival. As a businessman Rob, to offer the refund would in essence compromise yourself. An animal  is not just a simple piece of merchandise. And in my humble opinion, scutes and striations are not a viable reason for return. Show me anywhere in nature where any markings are 100% lined up and perfect. I say no refund. By accepting the animal and maintaing possession, the customer finalized the sale.
 
I know that several valid opinions have been presented, but here is another option for you to try to resolve the issue.  You might ask the buyer what he thinks those animals are worth as they are now in his possession, and then refund fifty percent of the difference between what he paid and what he thinks they're worth.  

This way, you both bear some of the responsibility.  Him because he did not ask the specific questions about aspects of the animals he finds important, and you simply because you don't want to have a walking bad PR billboard out there.  I would not, however, offer him the refund until he responded to how much he thought they were worth so that he just doesn't say $0 and try to get half back!

This saves him the cost of reshipping.  It saves you the risk of bringing the animals back into your collection (and the headache of reselling them).  And it saves the animals the stress of shipment once more.

Just my $.02 worth.  What do you think?
 
Rob,
as long as you honestly represented your end of the deal,and they have had them for a week or whatever you said,with no health problems.or concerns.i would tell them that they saw exactly what they were getting before they bought them.if they insist you take them back,offer to rebuy them at a WHOLESALE price and if they dont like takeing a loss they can take the time and post them for sale themselves.
                           just my opinion <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
                             Jason Kiper
 
If the animal was not represented truthfully ---  The customer deserves a full refund.

But if the animal was represented truthfully and the customer just happens to change his/her mind.  -- The customer deserves the FULL refund minus shiping charges (both ways), box charges and handling charges.

just my opinion
 
Either your customer is a complete boob or you are leaving something out. I can understand being bummed about the scutes as that could be viewed as a slight deformity and decrease the value of the animal. However this guy(or girl) truly expected all of the striations to line up? How about posting the pictures you sent the customer. Maybe someone here who is familiar with tortoises can check them out and see if they show the scutes in question.

Jackie Lapradd
 
So far you have gotten lots of advice based upon your original posts. We have not seen pictures of the tortoises. I kind of wonder why you have not posted pics for us to see since two people other than me have asked you to do so. Posting the pics, of the actual animals you sold, could only help us answer your question more intelligently.

Without the pics, all I can say is I would offer some sort of a refund. This sort of happened to me last year but it was that a kingsnake I sold supposedly died after two weeks of care on the buyer's part, or so the buyer claimed. He never sent me the snake back (on ice) and never sent me pics. I sent a refund minus shipping, it was not a lot so I took the hit. I doubt that the snake died. Another fellow bought a hognose from me that I advertised as a severe problem feeder (fed once or twice only and this was in my ad). It died in a few weeks. I offered a refund, he did not take it. I happened to see him at a recent snake show and gave him a free snake hook and offered a baby black rat snake - all I had in my inventory as far as snakes went - he declined again. Normally I would not sell problem feeders. I only sold the problem feeder because I had volunteered to fly as a Federal Air Marshal until the FAA (now TSA) hired enough people to do the job (I am a fed agent). I had to make the sales fast as I knew I would not be around a lot to care for lots of baby snakes.

Now I realize my situation is different from yours; however I got lots of advice both ways just like you are getting from some of the same people who are giving it to you. I figured that in order to protect my future dealings online it was best to at least offer a refund.

The guy you are dealing with may be a jerk, and may not be one. Whatever he is, it is probably best to offer a refund and he pays return shipping. HE SHIPS FIRST (He ships first, he ships first, he ships first, he ships first, he ships first {kind of important at least in my mind}). You receive, by overnight shipping, apparently healthy tortoises (and make sure these are the same ones you shipped him - give them a good look over comparing them to the pics you took) , and then you refund the full purchase price minus shipping. That way if your customer ever decided to bad mouth you on forums you can defend yourself with very commendable actions on your part. By the way, those same actions would also probably hold up in court if he tries to bring you to small claims court for the shipping fees or whatever - some people are that dastardly you know!

Remember if he sends them back , and you give a refund, you can always sell them again if they are in as good a condition as you claimed (and I am not doubting you - I don't know you enough to do that). Good luck

Best regards,

Glenn Bartley
 
CORRECTION to my above post: the kingsnake I sold died about a week after it was sold; and I said: I doubt that it died - I meant to say I had doubted that it died because of anything that was my fault, and I had some doubts that it had died. I mainly had these second doubts because I received no pics nor did I receive the dead snake. But then why would someone claim only one snake out of a batch had died, and a very low priced snake at that, when he had bought more than one of them from me. I wanted to clarify that - I don't want anyone to think the guy who got the refund was a crook - I am now sure he was being honest -  it was just that at the time those doubts did raise their ugly heads for a brief time clouding my judgement about if I should give a refund. <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
If the animals were accurately represented by the pictures and description, then I believe you should not give a refund.

Why? simply because you don't know what the animals went through plus they will have already been shipped twice (stress). We are dealing with living animals not a pair of shoes we buy at K-Mart (try to return them with a worn-out sole and let me know how it goes&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>.

Customers have to understand they have to make up their minds before they buy a living animal. I am mostly a buyer and not a seller so I am shooting myself in the foot here.

If they were not accurately represented, slap in the hand to you, and full refund which includes shipping charges.

Regards,  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
First I want to thank everyone for responding to my query.  One thing I wanted to say also was I spent numerous hours on the phone (some were very late calls by the customer), alot of time taking pics of exactly what he wanted to see on the animals. and did everything that could have been asked of a seller.  Below is a link to the pictures I sent to him of the animals.  You can see in some of the pics that the scutes are visable.  (these are the same pics he recieved)  I am and was 100% honest with everything I knew about the animals before he paid.  He did not once ask anything about their scutes or striations.  I also wanted clear something up from my first post.  The animal that he sas does not have stratight striations is the female which I offered to swap for the female he has that is not satisfied with.  I also offered him $50 back to make him happy.  I personally do not want to get the animals back since first, I do not know the condition of the other animals in his collection, and I do not want the animal stressing from another shipment.  These animals are entirely to expensive and valuable (both monetarily and life wise) to have something happen to them.

http://www.printroom.com/ViewAlb....d=75340
 
Rob, you dont owe this guy anything. What does it matter, they are healthy eating etc.......... I know for a fact that you had terms up on your posts!! Dont worry about it. Take it easy. I've got your back <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Brad
 
Whoops I mis typed something....
I meant to type if the animals were represented  untruthfully then the customer deseerves a full refund.

Let me also elaborate on the rest that I said...sorry sometimes I have trouble speaking english.

If the animal was represented truth fully.....You do not owe them a thing.

but if they really insist on getting a refund
you can choose to refund them in full  MINUS shipping charges etc etc etc
 
Rob you don't owe the guy anything IMO.  You obviously offered the guy more pics than Playboy does of the playmate of the month.  If you did decide to refund any of his money I would charge him rent as Brian suggested even as weird as it sounds.  I WISH I could have only bought all females in my Leopard colonies, and bought some nice males and returned them after a week or so that way I could stud all my girls for free and not have to keep a dozen males around.  Besides knowing Rob personally he's a great guy to deal with and always availible for help so I have no doubt he represented the animals honesty and offered any and all info on them the customer could have asked...........Mike
 
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