kenneth Yates of South Carolina

[oreganus]

This guy is a total piece of work. He posted his entire collection for sale on kingsnake. I noticed the ad, it looked pretty good, so I emailed him and we agreed on a price. I sent the money to him next day, the money was recieved and he promptly sent out the animals. This is where the trouble began, I got home with the boxes, a friend and I started unpacking the animals. First off, we noticed that he did not properly insulate the boxes or put appropiate heatpacks in with the animals. The first box we opened contained green and black mambas, 4 of the greens were extremely cold and dead, the black was also cold and dead(picture attatched). We continued to open the boxes as fast as we could inorder to get he animals out and warmed up quickly. As we opened the others, we noticed that there were 4 neotropical rattlers missing(suppose to be 2.4) and a puff adder was also missing(suppose to be 0.0.3). We also noticed that there were extremely small heatpacks in some boxes and heatpacks were not in some of the other boxes! All the animals were extremely cold due to the poor packing methods and the 40F- weather. Kenneth was promptly called and emailed after the animals were unpacked. Kenneth called about 4 hours later in a state of panic saying that all the animals were there and that he didn't know what was going on because he paid someone to box them up for him. He said he would find out what was going on and call back. He has never called or contacted since last saturday morning, the response to the first call by me. I have made arrangements to file fraud charges for the animals missing and a lawsuit for the value of them. What is funny is that he has never responded to any of the phonecalls or messages, until tonight when I emailed him, told him my intentions and gave him the chance to end it now without the legal problems, well, he emailed me not even 3 minutes after I emailed him! Here are pictures that I have taken of the dead animals and how they were packed.
Kevin Smith
Here is the original list of what was posted on the ad on Kingsnake:
1.0 12 FOOT KING COBRA 650.00
1 Indo King Cobra--NICE ADULT 325.00
0.1 Sumatran Gold Spitting Cobra 380.00
1.0 Suphan Cobra 375.00
0.1 Black Mamba 435.00
1.2 W.A. Green Mambas 425.00 Each
4 E.A. Green Mambas 425.00 Each
1.1 Egyptian Cobras 125.00 Each
0.0.3 Puff Adders 95.00 Each
1.1 Cape Cobras 175/265
1.1 Black & White Spitting Cobras 150/250
1.1 Black Pakistan Cobras 160/275
1.1 Macklott’s Pythons 125.00 Both
11 Canebrake Rattlesnake early 03 25Ea./5-20.00
1.0 Black-Tail Rattlesnake--Beautiful 295.00
2.4 Neotropical Rattlesnakes 120/240
1.0 Northern Pacific Rattlesnake 45.00 Each
0.1 Southern Pacific Rattlesnake 45.00 Each
0.0.2 03 Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes 45.00 Each

 

[oreganus]

here are pictures of....

the heatpacks used in the boxes that heatpacks were present. Also, hear is a pic of the insulation used for shipping. Keep in mind the lows were around 40F across the USA.
Kevin Smith

 

[oreganus]

another pic of the insulation used..

notice how thin it is...
Kevin smith

 

[oreganus]

another pic

notice how thin this stuff is
Kevin Smith

 

[oreganus]

sorry...

here is the pic...

 

[oreganus]

here are the emails....

notice the last email makes entirely no sense, since if you scroll down, you will see where Kenneth emailed me when he recieved the first part of the money which was paid to him in two different payments.
Kevin Smith


From Kenneth:
i am sorry you sent me 2 letters stating that you were interested in purchasing the snakes animals and then i needed to get rid of my snakes so i shipped them to you, i do not see where any would be missing since i shipped them to you for free only to get rid of them
please explain this email
thank you
lawsuit for a shipment of snakes to you??
-------Original Message-------

From: Kevin Smith
Date: 12/15/2003 9:43:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: So what do you want you do????

YOu have a couple a couple of choices here, YOU EITHER CONTACT ONE OF US
AND REFUND THE MONEY FOR THE SNAKES MISSING AND DEAD or I WILL FILE A
LAWSUIT AGAINST YOU FOR FRAUD AND WILL GET MY MONEY. You had better think
whether you want to lose a lawsuit. LET ME KNOW.
Kevin


>received 2200
>thank you
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: Kevin Smith
>Date: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:58:34 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Message about: CLEARANCE SALE-HIGH Quality LOW Prices 4350.00
>OBO
>
>No problem, I will get it done.
>Thanks
>Kevin
>
>
> >if you would please make money order or cashiers check out to kenneth
>yates
> >thank you
> >
> >-------Original Message-------
> >
> >From: Kevin Smith
> >Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:07:47 AM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: Message about: CLEARANCE SALE-HIGH Quality LOW Prices
>4350.00
> >OBO
> >
> >Hey,
> >Here is my shipping address:
> >
> >Kevin Smith
> >34601 SE Colorado Road
> >Sandy, Oregon 97080
> >Portland PDX
> >
> >
> > >864-979-1548
> > >ken yates
> > >42 montgomery st
> > >greenville sc 29609
> > >
> > >-------Original Message-------
> > >
> > >From: Kevin Smith
> > >Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:18:14 AM
> > >To: [email protected]
> > >Subject: Re: Message about: CLEARANCE SALE-HIGH Quality LOW Prices
> >4350.00
> > >OBO
> > >
> > >Give me a number and I will call you asap.
> > >Thanks
> > >Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > >i need at least 3650.00 plus delta dash shipping
> > > >
> > > >-------Original Message-------
> > > >
> > > >From: [email protected]
> > > >Date: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:00:02 AM
> > > >To: [email protected]
> > > >Subject: Message about: CLEARANCE SALE-HIGH Quality LOW Prices
>4350.00
> > >OBO
> > > >
> > > >I will give you $3500 cash for them, I will next day the cash to you.
> >Let
> > > >me
> > > >know.
> > > >Thanks
> > > >Kevin
> > > >
> > > >----------------------------------------------
> > > >Click on (or cut and paste into you browser's
> > > >location window) the URL below to view the ad that
> > > >this message is in response to.
> > > >
> > > >http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?de=170253&cat=40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----------------------------------------------
> > > >This message was sent by an unregistered or non logged in user.
> > > >
> > > >Sent 10:59 PM, Dec 01st, 2003

 

[Stardust]

I am sorry to hear this has happened to you but not surprised. There is another thread on fauna about Kenneth Yates aka Elite Exotics. I also recently posted about his ongoing problems with the law in the SOUND OFF section of this forum if you would like to read that as well. Perhaps with the siding business he is now in trouble for and this as well, the BBB can add you to the list of people has ripped off. Perhaps you can write or call the reporter who did the report on him, I believe his name is stated in the sound off forum thread as well.
I do have some other information on this man if you would like to email me I will try and fill you in as much as I can.
Again, so sorry this happened to you.

 

[snkkpr01]

That sucks

Kevin, sorry to hear about this. Hope you can get it all cleared up. Let me know if there is anything I could do to help.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

I have a question~
I understand why Ken Yates address was sent~ so you could send payment. But why did you send your shipping addy to him? Venomous must be shipped by airline~ these were NOT overnighted to your door were they? If they were.....good luck sueing anyone. If not, well then I guess I misunderstood the reason you would send your shipping address.

 

[paulweaver]

I have a question~
I understand why Ken Yates address was sent~ so you could send payment. But why did you send your shipping addy to him? Venomous must be shipped by airline~ these were NOT overnighted to your door were they? If they were.....good luck sueing anyone. If not, well then I guess I misunderstood the reason you would send your shipping address.

I was confused about this as well. Delta Dash was mentioned in an email, and the airlines are the only legal way to send venomous. I thought that Delta Dash shipments have a controlled temp environment (??)

Paul Weaver

 

[JungleHabitats]

thats what a siding scum does

sorry to hear about the deal ... first off you know the heat packs were crap .... the insulation board he used he had from his siding buisness thats in belly up status its used on the outside of a house before siding goes on ( im a contractor so that why i know that) it was totally not good to insulate tropical snakes #40,000 ft in a airplane esp with thos toe warmers he taped up in there . thepictures of boxes i hope those were his shipping boxes ? and i couldnt see how any of the missing snakes could escape those . He said he paid someone to pack the animals ... well either they have the missing ones or there never were any to ship. Ken yates is a scumbag if there ever was one. he should be stoned by the people he has ripped off plain and simple .and as the other two posts stated if he shipped delta then i dont think there would have been muc a issue with dead cold snakes . but it sounds like maybe they were overnighted ? if thats the case if you file a lawsuit you then will have one filed against you im sure for knowingly receiving venomous via overnight carriers . hope thats not the case as if so its one more BIG strike on trying to get the overnight services legal for shipments of snakes ... what a fiasco this would be . please clear up the shipping method for us all as thats a big question here .
hope the scumbag makes right on this but i highly doubt he will ....

 

[oreganus]

They were shipped Delta...

BUt just because they are in a controlled temprature before they leave and when they arrive, doesn't mean they aren't in the cold weather on the way to the plane, on the plane, ect. The reason you see me emailing my address is because he has to have that to put on the airbill. Anyone that ships with delta knows they require an address. Thanks for all the nice posts.
kevin smith

 

[oreganus]

Here is an idea...

anyone that has had problems with this guy, please email me. Let's end this guys ability to sell animals and rip people off.
Thanks
Kevin Smith

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Thanks. I've not shipped Delta before. I've not shipped at all. So I did not know he needed your street address for the air-bill. I am considering and investigating what will be required if I do attempt to ship.

Thanks for answering the question. And Thanks for not using an overnight service~ Sorry your snakes were missing and dead. Thats a LOT of money, I hope you can recover some of it!

Good Luck!

 

[diamondback1]

I worked for Delta years ago in the Northeast and usually ALL shipments were left in the loading area which was subject to the temperatures outside weather very hot or cold. So the possibility of an animal being dead with the crappy packing as these snakes were is a definite possibility.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

First off I am sorry that the animals perished. It is a sad thing when it happens at all. Delta has the guarantee for the animals so have you filed your claim with them about the dead ones? I am not saying that Ken is not responsible for the poor packing job but Delta is responsible as well for the dead animals.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Shipping in cold weather always entails risk. The final decision is in the hands of the shipper to check if it's reasonably safe or not to ship. The buyer should also be flexible enough that if he sees temperatures are borderline with freezing, he may ask for the shipment to be postponed until the weather breaks. There is no snakes you need that badly as to risk their lives shipping them in inclement weather.

 

[ElapsMan]

Kevin, sorry to hear of your loss. I hope you already notified Delta to file a claim in case Ken does not make good on the dead snakes. There is a time limit, so if you did not do so yet, notify Delta ASAP. Ken may not be required to pay you for dead snakes, but Delta is required to. It looks like Delta may have left them on a cold loading dock too long, which would not be Ken's fault, so file a claim ASAP
Best of luck
Fred Stano

 

[ms_terese]

So sorry to hear of the loss.

What was the duration of the flight time? I'm asking because 2 years ago my husband and I left town for 3 days over New Year's. There was an electrical failure in our neighborhood, and the inside of our home was well below freezing when we got home. After speaking to neighbors, we learned that the power had gone out about 3 hours after we left, so our snakes had been exposed to extreme cold for more than 24 hours, but they didn't die. Are mambas more sensitive to temps than boas or pythons?

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Sorry guys, but I have to disagree with you.... even though it might be Delta's responsibility, it is certainly NOT Delta's FAULT that the snakes were DOA.... This part of the problem falls directly on Ken Yates!.... If the box was packed PROPERLY, there should have been no reason why those poor snakes should have died.... heck, I can ship a dart frog to Minnesota in the middle of the winter and I will guarantee that it will get there nice and cozy warm!....

In the winter months, you should put NO airholes in the outer box what-so-ever.... you should seal every exposed outer edge of the box with tape so NO air gets in or out.... you should use TWO 40-hour heatpacks in a 1/2"-3/4" styrofoam-lined inner box, with massive amounts of shredded newspaper as packing material.... if you follow this scenario, you will NEVER have an animal arrive DOA.... I've sent hundreds and hundreds of packages out during the winter months and have NEVER EVER had a DOA (using my packing method)....

If Ken used the proper styro, the proper heatpacks, and the proper packing material, we wouldn't be having this discussion....

As far as Delta goes.... I am a verified shipper with Delta, and I've shipped out 4 large boxes of animals in the last 2 months.... I have been told that they have a special heated room in the terminals for animals, they go in a heated cargo area in the plane made especially for animals, and then a heated room at their destination.... I doubt very much that they're left on the tarmac for a while in transit because a lot of these crates are just that, CRATES with large airholes and NO heating elements inside.... Delta would be foolish to jeopardize the health of the animals since they KNOW they are responsible for their care.... they wouldn't have any business left....

This whole catastrophy falls flatly on Ken Yates' shoulders.... It all boils down to a total lack of shipping knowledge and compassion for the animals...

Not to mention the outright THEFT he did to Upstate Exotics!!

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Neil