• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

KINGSNAKE.COM BUSSINESS ETHICS

T

Tony

Blocked because of INVALID email address!
INVALID email address
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I am very sorry to be posting this, but I am very unhappy with kingsnake.com. Over the last 3 years they have been a very good server helping all of us in the reptile industry to join together. But recently they made some changes and asked all of us to give them our account info so they could allow us to still you the classifieds. We had a deadline of Sept 1st. We sent him the info Aug. 31. A little late, I know, but still before the deadline. I assumed that I would be able to post classifieds on Sept 1st, like they stated, but my account was not activated. So I sent them another email asking what happened. He told me that my account expired a few months prior and they never updated their system or notified me. So my classified account would be on hold until I sent a payment. I was very unhappy with this because the classifieds directly effect my bussiness and sales. I was upset and emailed him back telling him that I would send the payment without a problem, and also told him that this was an unfair way to run a bussiness. My sales must suffer because of a mistake that they made. Well to end this, he got pissed told me he has been up for 3 days straight and that I do not work as hard as he does. And told me to go away and that I can no longer have an account with kingsnake.com. I personally think Jeff Baringer needs to get some sleep. Just wanted to tell everyone about my experiance. Thanks.

Tony Alles
 
My account expired and they never notified me. I had to email them twice just to get them to respond to me. Instead of telling me so I could make the payment without losing my service for a couple weeks, he just ignored it until I found out my account was not working.
Tony Alles
 
In Jeff's defense, and I don't know him, it is not really his responsibility to let people know when their accounts expire. In the perfect business world he would have a list and notify people so they could renew their accounts quickly and the cash flow keeps coming in. If you look at all the changes that were made you know he has been busy. All the same when you were updating your information it was your responsibilty to renew. As far as he sees it you got a couple months for free. His behavior was not appropriate in his response but non the less shouldn't he expect payment before the account is reopened if it is a couple months overdue? I am sure if you send him payment and give him some time to rest up you can get your account reactivated. Kingsnake is far to big in the business not to have an account with, in my opinion. Don't take this the wrong way I just think he had every right to expect payment before re-opening the account. No different than Rich told everyone here that it was there responsibility to take care of renewal before expiration.

Good luck,
Mike Jones
 
I completely agree with you that is why I apologized and told him I would send the payment. After my second apology he told me again that he would not accept my bussiness. I did not try to get any free time. The last time the account expired he notified me a month in advance. I was expecting this again. I was not keeping track of when it would expire.

Tony Alles
 
odd, I got an email when my old acct expired....I thought it was an automated setup that informed you when you were close to expiring.

Jeff has been known to throw fits about what seem to be minor things....you're right, he should get more sleep. If he's going to run a business and have employees he should delegate so that he's not a pissy stressed out individual.
 
I have been on kingsnake.com for a long time. Just recently Jeff sent me a very rude email concerning a post I put on a forum. I responded and told him that I felt he was coming on a bit strong threatening me and being rude when I made a small mistake and would not do it again. His response was to close all of my accounts and tell me that I could no longer use his site. He promised me a refund of webhosting fees right away. A week later he refunded half my money. I still, another week later don't have my money. He also has now tied up my domain name, that I paid for, preventing me from getting my site back up hosted with somebody else. I will be persuing a legal solution. Evan Stahl
 
I am sorry about your situation. It seems like Jeff is trying to bully us all around. As customers we should have the right to complain. I understand nobody likes to put down, but complaints are completely fair. There is not many other online reptile sites that do as good of a job as kingsnake, but we need to find one. They should charge the $50 a year for this website and try to steal away some of kingsnakes business. Good luck with your money.

Tony Alles
 
I had the same problem with my account on kingsnake but it didn't hurt my business as much as it might hurt others.
I think Jeff acts like a bully and if you piss him off, he can just  delete your account and not let you back on.  I also had a problem with people ripping me off and kingsnake didn't do anything about it.

Other Reptile portals are popping and they actually seem to care about the reptiles and their breeders.
One in particular is www.BlueHerp.com
It was created to try to be kingsnakes rival.
If Jeff keeps acting the way he does, he could eventually loose all of his clients.

Just my opinion.  Thanks
 
I am so pissed at the way I was treated by kingsnake, that I would love to see them go away. Thanks for letting me know of some other reptile sites. I would never want to give kingsnake my business again. Who would turn away customers, even after an apology? Thanks for the info.

Tony Alles
 
I met JeffB at Daytona this year and I was impressed with how plesant and nice he was to me, even though I introduced myself as "Morti from Redtailboa.net"

Every time I have had a problem with kingsnake.com related to redtailboa.net members being banished for the sin of having a photo gallery with us I have found that he has been reasonable about it.  I just give him a week or two to cool off and then call him personally.  He is usually civil and makes the problems go away.

Just my thoughs.
-Donnie (Morti) Smith
 
I would like to add my 2 cents.  I have been advertising on Kingsnake for a few years, and have never had an issue.  I have advertised with banner advertising, forum advertising and classified advertising.  I have had great returns for the dollars spent as I have had here on Fauna.  
  This doesn't mean that the people who have had problems haven't had them, but it does mean that I have not had those problems.  Thank you.
Ken Chiarella.
Wormman.com
 
Since Tony is sharing I guess I will share too.
Anyone see an apology in these?
Goodbye Tony.


Here are the emails I received and sent

Subject:      Re: Classified Account
      Date:    Mon, 02 Sep 2002 13<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4:40 -0500
     From:  Jeff Barringer <[email protected]>
       To:        [email protected]
References:   1

Thank you for contacting us about our classified
ad system upgrade. After reviewing our records
it appears that your classified ad account has expired
and was not removed when it should have been.

I have reviewed our credit card and paypal transactions
as weel as our incoming check register and was unable
to locate a renewal payment from you in 2002

It is certainly possible that I am not looking in all
the right places though so if you did renew please
provide us with documentation such as
the type of payment made and the date and we will double
check our records.

If you are unable to locate any info at your end and wish to
renew the account you can do so online at
http://www.kingsnake.com/renew.html


Subject:  Re: Classified Account
  Date:    Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:54:14 EDT
  From:    [email protected]
    To:   [email protected]

I checked my records and you are correct about the renewal fees. I am very disappointed in the
quality of service I have received from kingsnake.com. I do not have a problem paying to renew
my account, but I should have been notified earlier. I did as I was told to continue through the
changes and my first request was ignored. It took me 2 emails just to get you to respond. We
are a reptile store that is planning to have our website put on kingsnake.com within the next
month. You ignoring us has shown your inability to properly run your own business. I
understand that mistakes happen, but I could have been notified of this earlier. Because of your
mistake, I must suffer. I am not able to post any classifieds which effects my business, again,
because of your mistake. My payment will be made to continue service on kingsnake, but I am
very disappointed in your quality of service.

Tony & Jim Alles, Owners
Prehistoric Pets Chino
(909) 465-6085

Subject:     Re: Classified Account
      Date:     Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:12:54 -0500
     From:     Jeff Barringer <[email protected]>
       To:      [email protected]
References:    1

Keep your money

Subject:  Re: Classified Account
  Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0:18 EDT
  From:    [email protected]
    To:     [email protected]

I am not trying to offend you in any way. I was only voicing my opinion on the situation. As a
customer I do have the right to complain. You should see my reason for being a little angry.
Because of the mistake you made of not updateing account, I will not have access to the
classified ads for several weeks. I am not putting my credit card online because of fraud
reasons. For me to pay you safely I have to mail a check or money order, which will take 2-3
weeks or more for you to process. If you would have notified me that my account was coming to
an end the payment would have been made in advance. You notified me of this several times
before and everything went on without a problem. I am more than willing to support your
business, I have for the last 3 years. All I ask in return is for you to support your customers.
You made a mistake and in return, you tell me to go away. I don't find th! at to be very fair. I still
want to do bussiness with kingsnake.com, I am only voiceing a complaint, which is more than
fair. Thanks.

Tony & Jim Alles, Owners
Prehistoric Pets Chino

Subject:      Re: Classified Account
      Date:    Tue, 03 Sep 2002 15:21:46 -0500
     From:   Jeff Barringer <[email protected]>
       To:   [email protected]
References:             1

How in the world could that email have been taken
any other way than by being offensive.

If that is your opinion of our business and the way we do
business, and the way I run the business then you don't
need to be posting here and we don't need you posting here.
You obviously feel that the $54 per year is expensive
for the type and quality of service you have
recieved so go spend it with your local newspaper or
Reptiles Magazine and see how good their service is for
that price.

Our staff worked all weekend, a holiday weekend none the less,
and has received and answered over 8000 emails.
Was your retail store open 24 hours a day all weekend?
Ours was.

We announced this by email and with a post in big red letters
on Weds August 28, you waited to contact us til saturday
August 31, on labor day weekend at 5:36 pm

You do have the right to complain, we also have rights
one is the right to refuse service to anyone we choose.

Subject:       Re: Classified Account
  Date:      Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:48:33 EDT
  From:      [email protected]
    To:    [email protected]

There is no reason for this arguement to reach this point. We value your service and we would
still like to be able to post on kingsnake. We'll send the money and wait for the check to clear,
is that okay.
                             Jim and Tony
                          Prehistoric Pets Chino

Subject:      Re: Classified Account
      Date:       Tue, 03 Sep 2002 21:42<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4 -0500
     From:    Jeff Barringer <[email protected]>
       To:   [email protected]
References:    1

I don't think we can continue our business relationship, sorry.
 
In reference to Mr. Stahl's allegations -

Mr. Stahl violated his contractual obligations in our forum terms of service
by posting a vendor warning to our forums. I sent Mr. Stahl a strongly worded
warning that if he violated the terms of service of our site again, he would lose
his priveledges. I am not required to do so as our term plainly state that loss
of priveledges occur for a single violation of this nature.

Mr. Stahl knew full well that vendor warnings are not allowed on
our site, as he has previously filed complaints against those posting warnings to our
site against him. Mr. Stahl proceded to get argumenative about our rules and
enforcement, another terms of service violation.

We terminated his access and his accounts with our business.
We refunded his classified account fees, hosting fees, setup fees, and domain name.
We refunded every penny he sent us in 2002, but if he can show valid receipts
for other purchases not refunded  you can guarantee a check will be in the mail.
We also relinquished any control we had over his domain whatsoever and
made it available again as well as sending him a CD rom with his all his web files.

Yes. I am quick to anger. I don't suffer abuse or fools politely or well.
I am also quick to enforce terms of service violations, strongly and publicly.
Our web site has rules, it has them for a reason, and whether your an advertiser
or not, if you break the rules and it filters through all the varying levels of
volunteers and staff memebers up to me, you can rest assured I will take strong
and determined action.

And when Mr. Stahl is ready our legal department will meet him in any court he desires,
as long as its in Texas, because thats what Mr. Stahl agreed to in his contract.

As to Mr. Gearino's reference to the "Blue Herp" portal, please notice that not only have
they used our look and feel and feature sets, they have used our copyrighted materials
without permission, as well as information lifted off of Desiree Wong's vet portal and
Melissa Kaplan's Anapsid site. Not only are they not very original, they aren't very legal either.

I run a business. I don't take abuse in any form. The quickest way to find yourself off our
site is by being abusive or argumentitive with myself or my staff. If you go to a bar or restraunt
break the rules, interfere with their work, and/or get abusive with the staff you'll be asked to leave. If you come to my place of business and do the same, don't expect different.
 
Jeff....attitude says it all. As a business, you need to make customers happy so that they continue to be your customers. If they feel they have been slighted and feel like telling you so, take it as constructive criticism and move on without it making you angry....maybe even take it as a point that you aren't perfect and could use some work in a particular area.

People expect notification when their account expires. It's a neat little thing called communication that makes the world a better place. If one person gets notification but another doesn't, it irritates the person who didn't get notified, and rightly so. Why should one person get preferential treatment over another when we all pay the same to use your classifieds? We pay you to advertise...hence we should get support and you should do so with a smile...even if someone says you customer service is less than they expect.

So you and your employees work long hours. *shrug*  I do too...kinda comes with being in the computer industry. A lot of other people work long hours too. So there were a lot of issues when the new modifications (which I like myself) to the site went live. How must testing was done before it was brought online? You get a hell of a lot of traffic, was this taken into consideration when designing it? Sorry, my QA nature rears its lovely head being I'm still at work.
 
lets face facts--kingsnake.com is the largest most well visited site on the net.  It has generated much revenue to many people who pay the miniscule fee of $54 a year. The fact of the matter is jeff could probably charge $1000 a year and jeffs classified fees income would not shrink--but the amount of headaches he has might. Lets face it--a single table at a single reptile show ranges from $25 to $250 a day, and you probably do not reach as many people as you do advertising on kingsnake.  Having an account with kingsnake is like being able to go to a reptile show everyday of the year without ever having to leave your house!-i know how it feels to run a business understaffed at times, and do not envy the stress jeff probably has to endure--i get warning emails for my violations--to them i answer--yes sir--sorry for the inconvenience---i have spoken to jeff a few times on the phone and he has never been anything less than courteous. It is his site--and with all the lawsuit threats, and confrontations--i am sure he is as any of you would be--a little bitter. KIngsnake is an invaluable tool too many herpers, from breeders, to brokers, to dealers,--it effects every aspect of our industry and has made it grown more than i am sure even jeff knows.  He was the first biggie, and he is still at the top of the reptile food chain, so pretty much what he says goes. But it is not like he is a nasty dictator or some evil mad scientist--approach him with respect and i am sure he will do the same back, always has with me, and i do not even spend any money on banners, or any of that other stuff--not one dime ever---the only money i have ever given kingsnake has been my 50 bucks a year for the classifieds. Yet jeff still treats me the same as everyone. i hope that changes this year with my new website, but that is truth up until now.  I know another website that used to be semi popular, arboreal site-the dude went mental--censoring everything-threatening to sue everybody-now it gets like 3 posts a week. It is fading away.  Kingsnake has helped me build my business to what it is today in addiition to allowing me to meet great contacts and customers.  There is not anything Jeff could ask that i would not do for him, simply out of sheer gratitude for what he has created.  Most of the online dealers feel the exact same way.  Ever heard the joke about a 400lb gorilla??-
 
I would have to resoundingly echo Ben's reply.  I have been hosted and posting on Kingsnake for the past couple of years. I recently made the same mistake and let my classified account lapse.  One email and a quick phone call followed by a paypal for $54 and I was posting again in about an hour.  

I am a commercial loan officer in my day trade and am always amazed whe someone contacts me and says the reason they did not send in a payment is due to the fact that they did not get their billing notice on time.  You signed a contract that included the info that the contract was for a one year term.  It is now your responsibility to make the payments on time.  A remionder message is a nice courtesy but it is just that...a courtesy.  They are neither obligated or required to send one out.  

In short, Kingsnake has made all of us who utilize it an amazing return on a relatively small investment.  I personally think that Jeff does a bangup job and deserves kudos from us all for providing us with such an easy to use, economical way to market our product

John Schmitt

Suncoast Herpetological
 
Yea, what they said.

Ben and John that is.  

I love KS and have my site hosted there as well.  Jeff was very accomidating to me and my lack of computer skills when it came time to set it up.  I owe him a great deal more than my simple fee each year.  He went above what is required for his biz to do to get my site up and running.  

 

                                               Together......
lad.gif


Keep up the good work Jeff, and thank you.
 
I am having second thoughts as I type this, since I wish to continue my activity on Kingsnake, and don't wnat to be banned for voicing an adverse opinion.

Yes, Jeff has made things easier and better for alot of people with the KS site.  Yes, many people have made a great return on a small investment.  Yes, KS is the biggest and one of the best if not THE best.

All this said, it is not an excuse for Jeff to be anything less than completely professional under any circumstances whatsoever.  Any exchange of money between an individual/company and kingsnake is a business transaction.  Lockheed, if they had a disagreement with NASA, wouldn't send them an email (or any other sort of communication) stating, "Keep your money."  If I saw someone else acting this way, I would make it a point not to do business with them in the future.  However, Ben Siegel is right.  Kingsnake is simply too big to be avioded.  If there were any other sites as big, I think Jeff would have better customer relations in the face of a problem.  In this instance, if I decided to sell more than just locally, I would have to kowtow to Jeff, as I believe that a complaint against KS stated respectfully would still be met by anger and being banned.

A good businessman will maintain his composure and let the other guy be the pig-headed jerk.  As afriad as I am of what repercussions I will endure due to saying this, in my opinion, Jeff has not shown himself to be this kind of businessman.  *Almost certian I am going to lose KS privelages, but willing to in the face of principle*  I, personally, think this has to do with Jeff's ego about his site getting in the way of his customer service.  ie. "You dare to criticize me, Owner of Kingsnake?!  I banish you."

And all you big guys remember, if unknown Joe Schmoe can be banned for a single complaint, so can you.
 
1) I post on the lizard forums and we (my wife and I) utilize the classifieds to drive sales for our company. We play by the rules and try to get along with others. This is common courtesy when you are using another's system (similiar to being at someones house and not arguing with their guests).

2) Obviously Jeff should not "blow up" at customers, irregardless if they act out of line or not. That is the perfect business system that everyone is striving for. It doesn't happen all the time. My word of advice to Jeff is "Let it go to voice mail". What I mean is that sometimes it's better not to answer with your first knee jerk reaction to a client. Let it rest a bit before you email or call back. Especially when your doing a major script change like was just done. The script causes bugs (some people don't realize that a . instead of a , in a program can cause major havoc and is a pain in the a$$ to find), users have a hard time adapting to a new system, and the lack of sleep from overwork can all add up to major grouchiness <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

All that said, I don't see these as "business ethics" questions but rather customer service issues (I feel that ethics has to do with rip offs, honesty, switch and bait technqiues etc). A foul but not a crime.
 
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