Bad Guy Luis Estrada - Thief

[TylerStewart]

Early this month, we had multiple orders placed back to back by a Luis Estrada in Merrillville, Indiana (46410). The orders were placed October 4th, 5th, and 6th (he ordered while previous shipments were in transit), and totalled just under $1,500. After a week or so had passed, I got an e-mail saying that one of the orders had been reversed by the customer's bank. I e-mailed asking if there was a problem with the tortoises, or what was going on. It was an unconfirmed address, so PayPal does not cover the seller (me) in this type of situation. I got no response to that e-mail or to a call (where during the purchase process, I got responses to both, and talked to him on the phone). The next day, another of the 3 purchases had been reversed. Again, no response out of him. Finally on this past Friday, the third of them had been reversed with no opportunity for me to give my defense as is normal with PayPal transactions (it was beyond PayPal's control). The packages were signed for when delivered, and Luis has completely ignored me since the packages shipped out. We are going to pursue him for justice (I don't think getting payment out of this bum is realistic, but I'll get justice if I don't get payment).

Luis Estrada is a user here on FaunaClassifieds, with the username of "Turtleman66." Here is a previous thread of his: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147905

Funny how he puts up threads checking to see if someone is a scammer when he clearly is himself.

The payment info was a "Martha Varney" which the e-mail address plugged into Facebook makes me believe is his wife. Sadly, it also appears he has named at least 1 child after himself. Hopefully the kids grow up to be a better man than Luis is. E-Mail with these orders (which I initially got a response out of) was "[email protected]," and phone number was 219-791-0959. Anyone who is creating a "bad buyer" list might as well add this guy to it. Anyone looking for more specific information, feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I have no hesitation making him unable to get the animals he wants in the future.

 

[Utta]

Hi Tyler, please post Email correspondence between you and Luis. Have you notified him of this thread?

 

[TylerStewart]

Here is a run-on version of it all.... There are phone calls and conversation through this process, but here is what is in writing. I had offered him a small discount because of the size of the orders which was discussed on the phone (the $50 credit referred to below). I have sent PayPal requests for payment after these had been reversed, which have also been ignored.

-----

Hello Tortoise Supply,

You received a payment of $351.03 USD from martha varney ([email protected])
Thanks for using PayPal. You can now ship any items. To see all the transaction details, log in to your PayPal account.

Important note: martha varney has provided an unconfirmed address. Please check the Transaction Details page for this payment to find out whether you will be covered by PayPal Seller Protection.

It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

Seller Protection - Partially Eligible (Item Not Received Only)

Buyer
martha varney
[email protected]
Instructions to merchant
The buyer hasn't entered any instructions.
Shipping address - unconfirmed
luis estrada
33 deerpath rd
merrillville, IN 46410
United States
Shipping details
Air Service
DescriptionUnit priceQtyAmount
Your order from Tortoise Supply (#2707)
$351.03 USD1$351.03 USD
Subtotal$351.03 USD
Total$351.03 USD
Payment$351.03 USD
Payment sent to [email protected]

-----

Phone conversation where he was looking for 2 large female Greeks; had been searching for a year, etc.

-----

Hello Tortoise Supply,

You received a payment of $660.53 USD from martha varney ([email protected])
Thanks for using PayPal. You can now ship any items. To see all the transaction details, log in to your PayPal account.

Important note: martha varney has provided an unconfirmed address. Please check the Transaction Details page for this payment to find out whether you will be covered by PayPal Seller Protection.

It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

Seller Protection - Partially Eligible (Item Not Received Only)

Buyer
martha varney
[email protected]
Instructions to merchant
The buyer hasn't entered any instructions.
Shipping address - unconfirmed
luis estrada
33 deerpath rd
merrillville, IN 46410
United States
Shipping details
Air Service
DescriptionUnit priceQtyAmount
Your order from Tortoise Supply (#2715)
$660.53 USD1$660.53 USD
Subtotal$660.53 USD
Total$660.53 USD
Payment$660.53 USD
Payment sent to [email protected]

-----

from Tyler Stewart <[email protected]>
to [email protected]

dateTue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:12 PM
subjectGreek Tort Order
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details Oct 5 (13 days ago)


Luis,
I added a $50 credit on your account, but it doesn't look like it went through on your order (you paid the full $660).... Maybe you ordered just before I added it. Do you want me to refund you $50, or leave a $50 credit on your account (for a future order)? Either way I'll get them out tomorrow for a Thursday arrival.

--

Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.TortoiseSupply.com

-----

Hello Tortoise Supply,

You received a payment of $470.84 USD from martha varney ([email protected])
Thanks for using PayPal. You can now ship any items. To see all the transaction details, log in to your PayPal account.

Important note: martha varney has provided an unconfirmed address. Please check the Transaction Details page for this payment to find out whether you will be covered by PayPal Seller Protection.

It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

Seller Protection - Partially Eligible (Item Not Received Only)

Buyer
martha varney
[email protected]
Instructions to merchant
The buyer hasn't entered any instructions.
Shipping address - unconfirmed
luis estrada
33 deerpath rd
merrillville, IN 46410
United States
Shipping details
Air Service
DescriptionUnit priceQtyAmount
Your order from Tortoise Supply (#2719)
$470.84 USD1$470.84 USD
Subtotal$470.84 USD
Total$470.84 USD
Payment$470.84 USD
Payment sent to [email protected]

-----

fromLuis Estrada <[email protected]>
[email protected]

[email protected]

dateWed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:12 PM
subjectSomeone submitted the form from your 'Contact' page

hide details Oct 6 (12 days ago)


Someone submitted the form from your 'Contact' pageA user has submitted the contact form on your store.
Here are their details:
Full Name:Luis Estrada
Email Address[email protected]
Phone Number:
order 2719 is incorrect it should be for 3 of the high blond leopards not hermans. Please correct order and send confirmation

-----

fromTyler Stewart <[email protected]>
to"[email protected]" <[email protected]>

dateWed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:17 PM
subjectRe: Someone submitted the form from your 'Contact' page
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details Oct 6 (12 days ago)


I've only got 2 blondes left, do you want those 2 and 1 normal?

Sent by iPhone


Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.TortoiseSupply.com

-----

frompiddycat <[email protected]>
toTyler Stewart <[email protected]>

dateWed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:24 PM
subjectRe: Someone submitted the form from your 'Contact' page
mailed-byyahoo.com
signed-byyahoo.com

hide details Oct 6 (12 days ago)


yes

-----

fromTyler Stewart <[email protected]>
topiddycat <[email protected]>

dateWed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:54 PM
subjectRe: Someone submitted the form from your 'Contact' page
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details Oct 6 (12 days ago)


Ok, I'll get them out tomorrow for Friday delivery. I'll do the same $155 price on them, so you're getting $60 off this order ($20 each) in addition to the $50 credit. Thanks again!

-----

frompiddycat <[email protected]>
toTyler Stewart <[email protected]>

dateThu, Oct 7, 2010 at 3:48 AM
subjectRe: Someone submitted the form from your 'Contact' page
mailed-byyahoo.com
signed-byyahoo.com

hide details Oct 7 (12 days ago)


Ok no problem Thank You for you help.

-----

[email protected] <[email protected]>
toTortoise Supply <[email protected]>

dateTue, Oct 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM
subjectYour PayPal payment has been reversed
mailed-bypaypal.com
signed-bypaypal.com

hide details Oct 12 (7 days ago)


Hello Tortoise Supply,

We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer's bank.

As a result, we have reversed the following transaction:
Transaction date: Oct. 5, 2010
Transaction amount: $660.53 USD
Buyer's email: [email protected]
Buyer's name: martha varney
Your transaction ID: 96A479509K6903149

-----

fromTyler Stewart <[email protected]>
topiddycat <[email protected]>

dateTue, Oct 12, 2010 at 9:58 AM
subject???
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details Oct 12 (7 days ago)


Was there some problem, or why was this sale reversed?

--

Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.TortoiseSupply.com

-----

[email protected] <[email protected]>
toTortoise Supply <[email protected]>

dateWed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:34 AM
subjectYour PayPal payment has been reversed
mailed-bypaypal.com
signed-bypaypal.com

hide details Oct 13 (5 days ago)


Hello Tortoise Supply,

We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer's bank.

As a result, we have reversed the following transaction:
Transaction date: Oct. 6, 2010
Transaction amount: $470.84 USD
Buyer's email: [email protected]
Buyer's name: martha varney
Your transaction ID: 0RC84131FL2021220

-----

fromTyler Stewart <[email protected]>
topiddycat <[email protected]>

dateWed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:19 AM
subjectPayment
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details Oct 13 (5 days ago)


I need to know what is going on with the payment of the orders you have put in having been reversed. You received everything I shipped you and it was signed for at the address you wanted it shipped to, and so far have ignored my attempts to contact you. I will not just let this go, so it's in your best interests to touch base with me and find a solution to the problem.

--

Tyler Stewart
Las Vegas NV
www.TortoiseSupply.com

-----

[email protected] <[email protected]>
toTortoise Supply <[email protected]>

dateFri, Oct 15, 2010 at 9:08 AM
subjectYour PayPal payment has been reversed
mailed-bypaypal.com
signed-bypaypal.com

hide details Oct 15 (4 days ago)


Hello Tortoise Supply,

We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer's bank.

As a result, we have reversed the following transaction:
Transaction date: Oct. 4, 2010
Transaction amount: $351.03 USD
Buyer's email: [email protected]
Buyer's name: martha varney
Your transaction ID: 48C23476UR6685525

 

[Southern Wolf]

Print all of this out. Print out your tracking info with who signed for it... and then make a trip to your local PD and file a police report for theft in the total amount.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

This happened to me a few years ago and why I no longer accept Paypal for large orders. Wont get the money back as i never did but can do all paperwork to get him charged for theft.

 

[hhmoore]

What was the personal info attached to the payment (assuming it was not the address you shipped to)?

 

[TylerStewart]

The info in the invoice created on my site was the address shown in the above post, both with billing and shipping. The site then jumps a buyer to a PayPal checkout requiring nothing but the total dollar amount, so they don't re-enter all the info when they are in the PayPal checkout process. The only address I have is the one on Deerpath Rd.

 

[hhmoore]

Check the transaction on PayPal. I don't know if it works differently the way you have yours set up, but when I receive payments the shipping address of the paying account shows up. If I am asked/instructed to ship to another account, it makes me look a little more closely at things (no protection, as you've learned, when shipping to a different address).

 

[Earthworks]

that sucks , off topic but were you at the show this last weekend? hope this guy gets what he deserves, looking at the link you posted im quite sure he had every intention of scamming somone from the time he registered on here and that little inquiry thread was to attempt to throw up a little smoke screan, i mean he asks about 4 random people in 4 random locations with first initials only, then the main person he inquires about he claims he found the image from them on google but still isnt sure??? that post was highly suspect.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Sorry to hear of your issues.

Not many people may be aware, but you CAN move the money from Paypal to your bank account immediately after shipping. It is available from your bank account though Paypal if you need to do a refund.

The act of moving the money from Paypal to a bank account is not a bad practice in and of itself. It's not having the money to refund a buyer that is a bad practice. Therefore; I suggest if anyone moves the money they don't touch it (keep that amount available) until all parties are satisfied. I don't touch mine for 2-3 weeks, but it keeps Paypal from trying to bypass the credit card payment request when/if I want to pay for something with my credit card.

Seems like sellers will have to start moving money from Paypal immediately to stop this kind of scamming.

 

[Casey Hulse]

I am not sure if this pertains to this disscusion, but if paypal try to take money from your acct. and it is not there, they will take it when it is there, so in essense you give up your ability to use paypal in the future.

 

[Earthworks]

^ya i was thinking that, if the bank doesnt pay paypal(canceled) and paypal payed you(to you bank)...arent you still skrewed?

 

[Casey Hulse]

Paypal once took a large amount of money out of one of their customers accounts, but they wanted another 1100 or so for the "charge back", if the customer ever received funds into his account, paypal would take them to cover it, so the customer was forced to stop accepting paypal payments. I think it was an unauthorized user (like a child) with a credit card. It happened to a lot of people on fauna years ago (including me) with Kim Felts (Babyslither) she used her husbands credit card and made lots of purchases thru paypal, they got a divorce and the husband disputed ALL of the payments. Paypal took $400 plus from our account and there was nothing we could do about it. Lucky for us Kim still had a modicum of integrity and got us repaid through another source..

 

[deborahbroadus]

I am not sure if this pertains to this disscusion, but if paypal try to take money from your acct. and it is not there, they will take it when it is there, so in essense you give up your ability to use paypal in the future.

In my case, my bank account is connected to my Paypal, so in essence the money is always there.

However, I do not understand how the buyer was able to get his money back without Paypal even trying to verify that the products were shipped? So, if Paypal is falling down on the job, you can bet that I am going to put in an extra layer of protection.

By setting it up so that Paypal has to be taking it from my account, I am afforded an extra layer of protection outside of Paypal's TOS. My bank doesn't take kindly to fraudent withdrawals. Paypal was supposed to have CONTACTED the seller before taking any of the listed actions above in the OP's post.

 

[rjarosek]

that sucks , off topic but were you at the show this last weekend?

Tyler was the promoter of that show.

 

[TylerStewart]

Yeah, I was the promoter of the Las Vegas show, which is why I didn't deal with this over the weekend (had other things to think about).

I had moved the funds from my PayPal account over to the bank account, and normally do within a day or two, but when this happened, they hold any money you have in the PayPal account and can pull the rest from the bank account it's tied to. If I remember right, this time, it had my PayPal account go negative without affecting the bank account, then the next few payments that came in through PayPal just got put towards the negative amount. I think I've seen it work both ways.

PayPal says that I was warned that it was only "partially covered" since there was a glitch in the verified address thing, and that it's a risk I took by shipping. If I was simply to deny all orders that weren't confirmed addresses, I would lose a large amount of sales. Really, it's just the excuse I needed to move the bulk of my orders to a different card processor other than PayPal. Whether or not I was "warned" by them, the fact that they can take 3% of these sales and then play dumb or helpless when this kind of thing happens is pretty irritating to me. To me, if they can't back up the payment method, they shouldn't take 3%, but maybe I'm just too realistic!

hhmoore - I looked through the PayPal account, and there was no address in the payment. I don't know that they have a PayPal account at all, and probably just paid with a card (it doesn't tell me).

I'll get satisfaction one way or another. I don't care to go too much into detail since he's likely reading this right now, being a member here that was logged in as recently as 2 weeks ago.

 

[John3:16]

I do business and use pay pal. The items I sell go for over $1000.00 each.
I am reallly interested in this thread as if this had happend to me, it would have been disastrous!!!

Really, it's just the excuse I needed to move the bulk of my orders to a different card processor other than PayPal.

I am interested in this statement. Would you please give me more info on other providers that you might know of?
I don't want to hijack, so if you want to do it via Pm, that is fine.

I'm seriously alarmed now..........

 

[TylerStewart]

Update

I have talked to the police in his city (which are apparently located right next to where he is), as well as my own, as well as filing a formal complaint on the FBI IC3.gov site (which my local police suggested). It's doubtful that I'll ever see a dime from this process, but it does put a flag on his name and address (the house isn't his, or hers, by the way, but the guy that owns it has been flagged also since he signed for one of the three packages). I have been assured by his local police that while they may not do much about it at this point unless directed by the IC3 people, he has been flagged and if it happens a second time they will take action.

In the meantime, I've had some creative suggestions sent to me for "justice" which should make for a fun / fulfilling time

 

[Focal]

Sweet, keep us updated!