points for telling the truth????

[nicolai]

Now I am really confused. I like many other people are trying to follow the rules the best we can. I see now that members are given warning points for calling a known troll a "troll". This person was warned four times for trolling and also suspended for it two times for it which makes him a habitual offender, so in other words he was tried and convicted for his deeds right. In society when a felon is released from prison he is refered to as a "convicted Felon" and must forever wear that badge of dishonor for his deeds. We have the same thing here. A man was warned then convicted and sentenced (fined and suspended) twice for his deeds. Now is it wrong to call him a troll?? Doesnt he get the same dishonor of carrying the the recognition of such for being sentenced for that very crime.
I left out all names and references to any members or people in general, all references above are the truth not conjecture, these are questions for the aministration not accusations or insults as I dont wish to recieve any warning points for not following the rules, but rather would like to know from either Rich or the MODS as to what is the politically correct term to use on fauna now for someone that has been labeled as a troll, found guilty and sentenced for the offense on the site.
I have memorized the warning list as it is laid out here>>>>

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/warn.php?

And no where on there does it say there is a warning or anything for calling somebody what a MOD has already called them and convicted them of being. Can we not call bad guys what they are "bad guys"???, can we not call a scammer a "scammer", can we not call a troll a "TROLL????
Be sure of the message you are sending out about this because people are going to look at the warning system and such and think to themseles "so what if i get suspened or warned for trolling , no one is allowed to call me one, it is not allowed to be used against me!!!!"
In my eyes thats not setting a good example for people and also is like expunging a offenders records as soon as he pays his fine so that no one can use his record against him. You say you are going to use "strict enforcement" on the site to clean it up?? well how you going to clean it up if you give people like this get out of jail free cards, and put them back into equal standing with the people of fauna that actually do what you ask of them???

 

[leaftail]

Join the ranks of the confused. Only really safe thing seems to be to not post at all...

I'm still hunting for those rules about what's not allowed in our signatures.

 

[nicolai]

I know what your saying

Join the ranks of the confused. Only really safe thing seems to be to not post at all...

I'm still hunting for those rules about what's not allowed in our signatures.

The only bad thing with that is that if we all stop posting due to fear of the ramifications of making a mistake somehow this will be a very quiet place. I will continue to post and speak my mind and try to follow all the rules (even the ones I dont know of) in hopes of the site coming through this whole thing initact and leaving all of us a place to meet and talk about reptiles.

 

[Wilomn]

good luck Nic. It seems that arbitrary is the new buzzword here.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

Nicolai: If you don't get it by now, you never will. I hate to point this out because I really like Wes and am going to miss him. I will not miss his antagonistic posts, however. He has posted some really funny things and he has a way with words that most people only dream of having.

But lately his posts have turned into antagonistic crap. He continually baits people, most recently Dr. Owens, to see how far he can push them. That's what this is all about. Wes pushing. If he would just leave it alone, he would not be banned. I wish it wasn't this way.

Do you get it now?

 

[nicolai]

Now someone who had the best of intentions and was there to help us when we were in a deal that went bad is gone....yet the "bad guys" are still here. The "dark Side" has won this battle. Is no one going to save us?

The man on the white horse ran by me with such speed as i could not see as to the masked mans identity...he was swift, he was sly, I hope this masked man can be named in due time.



Fauna has lost a true asset!!!

 

[Junkyard]

The rules are not all that difficult(I think). When you think you will be warned for something than delete the post and rewrite it before submitting. If you gut says be careful than your gut is probably right.

 

[nicolai]

The rules are not all that difficult(I think). When you think you will be warned for something than delete the post and rewrite it before submitting. If you gut says be careful than your gut is probably right.

Yeah i know what your saying. You ever get that feeling way down in you gut like when your dog got hit by a car, or you lost your girl to another guy, or your friend was leaving and you didnt know if you would ever see him again??
That is how i am feeling right now. I am angry yet i am sad, i am bitter yet i am sorry, I am enraged yet I am depressed, I am torn by the emotions of the minute fearful of the emotions yet to come and sad that all will fade in time.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

the "bad guys" are still here.

Here's a nice solution to this "problem", one that I use and it actually works. Put your list of "bad guys" on IGNORE. Do not respond to the people you perceive as "bad guys" and be done with it.

 

[nicolai]

Its not that Karen, Its the Idea that the bad guys continue to thrive and prey upon us. To "ignore" them is to let them tippy toe around without knowing what they are up to and inviting them to repeat what they have done in the past.I dont want to "ignore" them, I want them on my "buddy" list so that i can see everything they do and hopefully stop them from snaring yet another in thier quest to do evil.

 

[reptilebreeder]

Here's a nice solution to this "problem", one that I use and it actually works. Put your list of "bad guys" on IGNORE. Do not respond to the people you perceive as "bad guys" and be done with it.

It's not that simple. Well, maybe for the regular forums, but not for the BOI. I feel like as it stands now (still waiting to see if it calms down a little) that the ability to smoke out new bad guys and scammers is being hampered. Look at a lot of the really bad guys, as I mentioned in another post, people like serpentboy, Pete, (a bunch of others) many of then continued to lie and deny, until people started to get a little "rough". People had to start calling them what they were; liers, scammers, idiots, lawbreakers, before they would come clean (some never actually came clean, but there was enough posting to get an idea of ones character, morals, and ethics to determine they were full of smelly stuff). Now it appears that if we call someone a scammer, liar, whatever, that we can be banned. If we have to post several times in order for the truth to come out, now we may be considered stalkers. Like I said, I don't think it's as simple as you think it is, course we are all entitled to our opinion. "ignoring" bad guys is fine in the regular forums, you can predetermine who they are or who you don't personally like, but I think it may hamper efforts to determine the yet unidentified, or new liars, scammers, and rip off artists.

Don't get me wrong, I think Wes' posts have gotten carried away the past day or two also, but if you go back the past few years and look at all the bad guys that have been weeded out, according to these new rules many of the threads wouldn't have gotten past page two, and the bad guys don't usually "show up" until later. Like I said, I don't want to self destruct and get myself banned, but I'm skeptical that the new ways will be able to weed out a lot of these bad guys. Hopefully, I'll be proved wrong.

 

[reptilebreeder]

Its not that Karen, Its the Idea that the bad guys continue to thrive and prey upon us. To "ignore" them is to let them tippy toe around without knowing what they are up to and inviting them to repeat what they have done in the past.I dont want to "ignore" them, I want them on my "buddy" list so that i can see everything they do and hopefully stop them from snaring yet another in thier quest to do evil.

Exactly.

 

[Junkyard]

Yeah i know what your saying. You ever get that feeling way down in you gut like when your dog got hit by a car, or you lost your girl to another guy, or your friend was leaving and you didnt know if you would ever see him again??
That is how i am feeling right now. I am angry yet i am sad, i am bitter yet i am sorry, I am enraged yet I am depressed, I am torn by the emotions of the minute fearful of the emotions yet to come and sad that all will fade in time.

Um,Okay.

If you are worried about the dark side winning than I think you are worrying too much. I am not a big Star wars fan, sure I have seen the movies. Remember that Vader's son is Luke, just because they are running around like mad does not mean they will live on forever.

These evil doers may be silently PMing each other in trying to run this site, but remember that Rich is in charge. When he has had enough he can give them the boot or shut this place down all together. Maybe the point system should be removed completely if they are purposely trying to raise each others point so they will look good.

We all know they are a pain, but I do know that I am not shallow like they are. Nicholas, you have always had very reasonable posts, I can see you are looking on many sides of the issue. I have learned a great deal from reading your posts, I value your opinion over the those who are trying to cause problems here. For that very reason, you are respected here, they are not. For that reason the dark side will never prevail.

You want to see that masked man, look in a mirror. Do you see him in the mirror, is he trying to help around here or is the guy in the mirror being an annoyance on this site. As many here look in the mirror they will all see somebody trying to either help or not. Will the losers win, of course not. You know that, just stick with your values and continue on your path, you will find it difficult at times, but far more rewarding. When I came on here I had to do a lot of work to receive my points, sure their were those playing around and their points moved from the green to the red, back and forth. My points were out of respect, their's were out of foolishness.

Anybody can read my posts and decide that for themselves and they can read the posts of the fools and learn the truth. Nicholas, were do you stand? I hope it is not on the sidelines(I have a feeling you are with me). I am on the good side. The force is strong on both sides, but with good it will always be the strongest. Remeber good can cast out evil and evil cannot cast out good.

 

[coyote]

Nicolai: If you don't get it by now, you never will. I hate to point this out because I really like Wes and am going to miss him. I will not miss his antagonistic posts, however. He has posted some really funny things and he has a way with words that most people only dream of having.

But lately his posts have turned into antagonistic crap. He continually baits people, most recently Dr. Owens, to see how far he can push them. That's what this is all about. Wes pushing. If he would just leave it alone, he would not be banned. I wish it wasn't this way.

Do you get it now?

Ditto! Dang.

 

[nicolai]

I agree with allmost everything you said....

Um,
These evil doers may be silently PMing each other in trying to run this site, but remember that Rich is in charge. When he has had enough he can give them the boot or shut this place down all together. Maybe the point system should be removed completely if they are purposely trying to raise each others point so they will look good.

You have been on here a while. I want you to think back to everything you have ever read and seen on fauna. Can you name me one "bad Guy" that has been Banned from fauna for being just that a bad guy. As long as they follow the rules of this board and pay thier fines for the violations on this site they are always allowed to come back and be a part of this site. Pete, adam, Mike clark, terry parks, bearded pets all left here on thier own accord and can all return if they wanted to and may have for all i know. some of them need to pay fines but otherwise they are welcome to post here once they do.. In order to permanently oust the bad guys from the reptile business and the reptile community in general this site as well as others like it needs to put thier foot down where the bad guys are concerned. Do you think that KS has ever thrown someone off thier site for being a bad guy. of course not, if the bad guys membership there was up to date he was safe, escpecially he was a advertiser there for which they got many more fringe benefits.
The BOI does serve a purpose in that all bad guys have a "record" by which good people can find out about them. But usually that is not enough. When a spade is found out to be a spade, then get rid of him permanently. I am just one of the little guys in the grand scale of reptiles, but I pride myself in the fact that I dont lie, cheat, steal or take advantage of others. If I did then shame on me and throw me to the wolve and I would have no rit=ght whatsoever to complain about the punishment given to me. The worst that can happen a bad guy right now is that there is a thread on the boi about them that might deter some of thier perspective buyers.


The masked man on the white horse blazes a trail for all to follow.... he gets the bad guys of today and waits for tomorow.... until the identity of this man is found..its nice just to know that he's around!!!

 

[nicolai]

back to the subject of this thread!!!!!

Now I am really confused. I like many other people are trying to follow the rules the best we can. I see now that members are given warning points for calling a known troll a "troll". This person was warned four times for trolling and also suspended for it two times for it which makes him a habitual offender, so in other words he was tried and convicted for his deeds right. In society when a felon is released from prison he is refered to as a "convicted Felon" and must forever wear that badge of dishonor for his deeds. We have the same thing here. A man was warned then convicted and sentenced (fined and suspended) twice for his deeds. Now is it wrong to call him a troll?? Doesnt he get the same dishonor of carrying the the recognition of such for being sentenced for that very crime.
I left out all names and references to any members or people in general, all references above are the truth not conjecture, these are questions for the aministration not accusations or insults as I dont wish to recieve any warning points for not following the rules, but rather would like to know from either Rich or the MODS as to what is the politically correct term to use on fauna now for someone that has been labeled as a troll, found guilty and sentenced for the offense on the site.
I have memorized the warning list as it is laid out here>>>>

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/warn.php?

And no where on there does it say there is a warning or anything for calling somebody what a MOD has already called them and convicted them of being. Can we not call bad guys what they are "bad guys"???, can we not call a scammer a "scammer", can we not call a troll a "TROLL????
Be sure of the message you are sending out about this because people are going to look at the warning system and such and think to themseles "so what if i get suspened or warned for trolling , no one is allowed to call me one, it is not allowed to be used against me!!!!"
In my eyes thats not setting a good example for people and also is like expunging a offenders records as soon as he pays his fine so that no one can use his record against him. You say you are going to use "strict enforcement" on the site to clean it up?? well how you going to clean it up if you give people like this get out of jail free cards, and put them back into equal standing with the people of fauna that actually do what you ask of them???

What is your opinion or ruling or say on this Rich. Can we call a spade a spade if they have been deemed as such by the people that run this site??? If they were innocent until proven guilty then they are indeed such.

 

[Junkyard]

With Rich working with the Mods to clean up, I am sure a lot of those who are breaking the rules will be either suspended quicker or banned. With that, it is a lot easier for Rich to drop the axe on someone and send them to Hell than just kick them off the site completely. I would not be surprised to see a cleaner place here without those who are the problem.

 

[Dennis1]

Now I am really confused. I like many other people are trying to follow the rules the best we can. I see now that members are given warning points for calling a known troll a "troll". This person was warned four times for trolling and also suspended for it two times for it which makes him a habitual offender, so in other words he was tried and convicted for his deeds right. In society when a felon is released from prison he is refered to as a "convicted Felon" and must forever wear that badge of dishonor for his deeds. We have the same thing here. A man was warned then convicted and sentenced (fined and suspended) twice for his deeds. Now is it wrong to call him a troll?? Doesnt he get the same dishonor of carrying the the recognition of such for being sentenced for that very crime.
I left out all names and references to any members or people in general, all references above are the truth not conjecture, these are questions for the aministration not accusations or insults as I dont wish to recieve any warning points for not following the rules, but rather would like to know from either Rich or the MODS as to what is the politically correct term to use on fauna now for someone that has been labeled as a troll, found guilty and sentenced for the offense on the site.
I have memorized the warning list as it is laid out here>>>>

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/warn.php?

And no where on there does it say there is a warning or anything for calling somebody what a MOD has already called them and convicted them of being. Can we not call bad guys what they are "bad guys"???, can we not call a scammer a "scammer", can we not call a troll a "TROLL????
Be sure of the message you are sending out about this because people are going to look at the warning system and such and think to themseles "so what if i get suspened or warned for trolling , no one is allowed to call me one, it is not allowed to be used against me!!!!"
In my eyes thats not setting a good example for people and also is like expunging a offenders records as soon as he pays his fine so that no one can use his record against him. You say you are going to use "strict enforcement" on the site to clean it up?? well how you going to clean it up if you give people like this get out of jail free cards, and put them back into equal standing with the people of fauna that actually do what you ask of them???

Let me see if i can address this maturely and without malice
Since you are dragging me into another unwarranted thread yet again
The way i see it is noone is getting warning points for telling the truth!
They are getting warning points for being insulting
Im curious if any good guys have gotten warning points for "Obvious Troll(ing)"
I could name a half dozen or so that Have

 

[LakesideBoas]

Let me see if i can address this maturely and without malice
Since you are dragging me into another unwarranted thread yet again
The way i see it is noone is getting warning points for telling the truth!
They are getting warning points for being insulting
Im curious if any good guys have gotten warning points for "Obvious Troll(ing)"
I could name a half dozen or so that Have

Your posts have been so much more pleasant lately! (Either that or the medicines for my pneumonia have made me hallucinate! )

Perhaps with time the "ugly" label will not apply to you and I can look forward to more of the same postings that I used to enjoy when we first "met" here.

I am sure things will only continue to get better and chomp as some may at the bit, change will happen. Do we, as members here, really want to wallow in the muck of insults and derogatory comments that cause hate and discontent or do we want to dust ourselves off, shake what hands we will and go forward?

Can we shake, Dennis? Thanks!

I believe that is the change Rich wishes to make.

 

[WebSlave]

What is your opinion or ruling or say on this Rich. Can we call a spade a spade if they have been deemed as such by the people that run this site??? If they were innocent until proven guilty then they are indeed such.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can look so cockeyed (no offense, Nicolai, as this is directed at EVERYONE at large) at such a simple concept. Here, let me spell it out in as simple terms as I can:

The name calling, profanity (even thinly veiled), derogatory comments, malicious antagonism and belligerent attitudes that some people have towards their "target of the day" will cease on this site.

So what does that mean? Well, the BOI will still work just fine if people cut out the crap and get down to the bare bones of what needs to be done. If anyone cannot figure out how to interrogate a suspected bad guy without resorting to the above garbage, then yes, they will be gone. If someone isn't smart enough to know how to ask questions, even persistently until they get answers without using derogatory names or insinuations, then they will be gone. Pretend you are an attorney in a court room. Does that kind of garbage help or hinder your ultimate goal when questioning the witness? Do you think someone's lack of language skills help at all in ANY circumstances? What does calling someone an "idiot" do for the thread itself? What does attacking other members taking part in the discussion, regardless of their direct involvement, do in relation to the goal of the thread itself? It's time to get the smokescreens out of the threads that some people will throw up around them and dig down to where the fire really is. Let the other guy make an ass out of himself. If only one person is doing that, it is pretty obvious what is going on without YOU jumping in there, acting the same, and confusing the readers about who the bad guy really is in the thread.

What I am requiring people to do is to act like mature, intelligent, and perceptive adults in their conversations here. I have no more tolerance for the people who act like they just rolled out of the hills and can't put a single sentence together cohesively without attacking someone. I have no more patience for people who think if they yell louder, attack anybody and everybody, and generally have nothing substantive to add to a discussion that they will drown out everyone and win by default. No, the BOI is not going to get "bad guy friendly" at all. I just expect the quality of the way the supposed "good guys" present themselves and try to get to the bottom of a "he said, she said" controversy to increase dramatically and notably.

Does anyone here NOT think they are up to the challenge? Does anyone here really believe they cannot engage in a discussion, even a heated one, without resorting to emotional outbursts that do nothing but drive the thread further away from really getting to the truth of the matter? If you don't think you can do it that way, then no, the BOI is not going to be a comfortable place for you to hang out. The rest of this site will likely be even less so, because if I am trying to reduce the antagonism and invective that has been rampant in the BOI, my intention is to ELIMINATE it completely within the rest of this site.

Incidents of members attacking other members for nothing other then a different in beliefs is going to end. People following others around because of a slight somewhere at sometime in the past and harassing their every post will definitely end one way or another. People whose apparent purpose here is to nothing more then to cause strive and conflict by their own actions will have short lived tenures here.

This is not a far swing to the side of peaches and cream at all. It is a move towards the middle of the pendulum swing where we can all get down to business where business is needed, and fun and information where that is appropriate, without the garbage that some people have come to be known as their stock in trade.

I guess the best rule of thumb you can go by is to read your post before you click the "Submit Reply" button and think about how YOU would feel about that post if it were directed at you. Does it offend you? Is it harsh to the point of being derogatory? Does it belittle you? Does it make you angry enough that you want to reply in like kind with the same sort of language? Does it not do anything at all in that thread that any reasonable and prudent person would consider an addition of value to this site?

If yes, then I strongly suggest that you take the time to work on that message before submitting it. I strongly suggest that you control your temper, become thoughtful in how you post, and consider how you can make YOUR image look a lot better by being the one on the high road with your words rather then lowering yourself into the gutter by the ill conceived words you choose.

If no one has noticed how many people who have had their reputations completely trashed by simply the manner in which they posted, then you just have not been paying attention at all. YOU are what YOU post here. It is MY goal to raise the level across the board of what the BOI, and this site in general, is going to mean to casual observers who see what YOU are posting here. And I SERIOUSLY aim to do just that.