I had a long talk with Myles today at my place. He was very unhappy about the way he was being represented, and decided to track me down before I tried to track him down. This alone impressed me. He wanted to personaly let me know that he was not trying to rip anyone off, and offered to send me the emails back and forth between Joe and himself. He sent me the emails, which I now have. After reading through them, and having spoken to him personaly, I would have to say that this was an error on Myles part, plain and simple. There appears to be no thought of ripping anyone off. He made two mistakes, 1) he spent the money before he shipped the snake, and 2) he forgot to ship the snake on the day promised. These are big errors, but casting stones yada yada. I don't think I would forget to ship such an expensive snake on the day I said I would, and if he had, none of this would have happened. As it is, I have to take at face value what he has told me, especially with the content of the emails to back him up. He typed "sorry" many times, and a buch of "I'll make it up to you" also. He offered Joe an additional snake along with the one paid for to make things up to Joe, and Joe declined the offer. He offered to ship the next day, and Joe declined. Now, the money got spent, which he also explained to Joe in the emails ( a lot of I'm sorry again), and since pay pal has frozen his account over the claim Joe made, he has no choice but to send the money to pay pal instead of directly to Joe. It's a mess for sure. I have all the emails here if anyone wants them, as I don't think I know how to post them here, and it's very, very long. So, I'd say that Myles messed up, Joe went off the deep end in response, and has been seeing red ever since. I personally would have gone for the snake I paid for and the extra het to boot, but that's just me. I can also understand Joe being upset, that kind of money would make me crazy also. Now Myles can't send Joe the money until pay pal gets it from him and sends it themselves, and Myles of course can't send the snakes on the risk that Joe won't pay for them. It's sad that this hobby has gotten like this, where two people, most likely both trustworthy have to battle it out for fear of each other ripping the other off. As for the Rainwater connection, indeed, Joe has some association with Tim, and I clearly expressed my feelings about this relationship and about Rainwater. I told him it's only a matter of time before Rainwater messes with him also, but it's not up to me to decide who people should and should not deal with. So, as far as I'm concerned, for what it's worth, Myles will come up with the money as soon as he can, Joe will get his money back, and hopefully everyone will be happy again. Joe, it's a shame though, you should have gone for what you paid for and the extra het to boot. But I do understand your feelings. Now, everyone whistle a happy tune, and we can move on.