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Rhino Viper Bites?
- Thread starter Palex134
- Start date
ok didn't mean for that one to happen, anyways, I have some questions about the effects of a rhino viper bite. Has anyone seen a bite from one? Im curious about the venom of the species, does anyone know the usual effects of a bite? BTW, im not interested in getting one, im just curious as they are one of my favorite species, but I dont plan of getting one. Thanks
hhmoore
tired & cranky shadow
You mean other than the potential for death??Palex134 said:
In the interest of being official, and not just spouting off what I knew of the likely effects, I did a google search on rhinoceros viper envenomation. The very first entry was:
www-surgery.ucsd.edu/ent/DAVIDSON/Snake/Nasicorn.htm
and from that:
Signs and Symptoms of Envenomation:
I. Local Affects:
A. Pain and swelling: onset almost immediately after bite
B. Blistering, bleb formation
C. Hemorrhagic edema
D. Tissue necrosis: onset usually days after bite
E. Ecchymosis
II. Cardiovascular:
A. Tachycardia
B. Hypotension: onset immediately
C. Cardiac arrest
III. Hematological:
A. Coagulation defects
B. Spontaneous bleeding:
C. Mucosal bleeding
D. Hematemesis
E. Epistaxsis
F. Ecchymosis/petechiae
G. Gastrointestinal bleeding
H. Internal hemorrhage
I. Anemia: secondary to bleeding into bitten limb, spontaneous bleeding, microangiopathic hemolysis etc.
IV. Pulmonary
A. Pulmonary edema
B. Tachypnea
C. Dyspnea
V. Renal/Urinary:
A. Hematuria
B. Hemoglobinuria
C. Myoglobinuria
D. Renal failure '
VI. General:
A. Nausea/Emesis
B. Fever
C. Abdominal pain
D. Regional Lymphadenopathy
Last edited:
Rattlesnake
New member
No wonder they are considered one o the most dangerous snakes in the world. 
hhmoore
tired & cranky shadow
who? rhino vipers??
YJHB
New member
My god, Harald just posted like five ways to die from this envenomation...if the blood loss and concomitant hypotension caused by the venom (not blood loss) doesn't kill you, then say hello to renal failure, GAH!
YJHB
New member
It's like someone thought of everything when they gave this snake its venom
hhmoore
tired & cranky shadow
and 'twas Harald that just denied the claim that they were among the most dangerousYJHB said:
sure, their ld50 is nothing to sneeze at...but certainly not even in the top 25 (or bottom, as the case may be, since lower ld50s are the most lethal). Factor in their somewhat less than aggressive nature (that does NOT mean that they don't bite!!!!) and their ranking on the "most dangerous" scale takes another big hit. You'll be in a world of hurt if you get bitten, but there are definitely a buncha badder boys in that playground
YJHB
New member
Well, give me an example of a worse envenomation...those effects look pretty awful to me, but maybe there's worse.
I've always wondered about kraits, for instance. They are smaller and probably faster.
I've always wondered about kraits, for instance. They are smaller and probably faster.
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
They are pretty deadly...but dead is dead.YJHB said:
I found this listing which may give some indication about various snakes including LD50's and the amount of venom injected in a typical bite. Of course the fact that you may not die from a particular bite does not mean that you won't spend 24-48 hours wishing that you had.
YJHB
New member
okay, I need to look up LD50 then....I'm VERY uninitiated when it comes to hots because I have no interest in keeping animals that can turn the tables on me. I'll post here if (WHEN) I have questions, haha 
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
LD50 aka Lethal Dose 50 is that amount of venom which is lethal for 50% of the "recipients". LD50 is also used for drug and other toxin ingestions.YJHB said:okay, I need to look up LD50 then....I'm VERY uninitiated when it comes to hots because I have no interest in keeping animals that can turn the tables on me. I'll post here if (WHEN) I have questions, haha
hhmoore
tired & cranky shadow
To have this discussion, one must consider which factors to look at. "dangerous" is generally accepted to be a combination of venom toxicity (by LD50), venom yield (how much is injected), and likelihood of envenomation. Therefore, a species that has fairly potent venom and a really pi$$y attitude would be considered more dangerous than one with with more potent venom that is generally disinclined to bite (likelihood of exposure to humans can sometimes be factored in here, ie a snake commonly found in populated areas could be considered more dangerous than a sea snake). If you want to base it which has a "worse envenomation", what criteria are you looking at...ugliest physical symptoms? pain? fastest or surest death? At this point, I guess an overview of the toxicity scale is warranted. LD50, can be broken down into 2 components: LD (lethal dose), and 50 (as in percent). the LD50 is the amount of a substance, in this case venom, that is lethal in 50% of a group of test animals. The route of administration is important because a substance can have different ld50s when administered by different routes. With venom, subcutaneous is the most commonly referenced (because that is where most venom will end up), but there are scales for IV and IM also. The rhino viper has an IM LD50 of 8.6 mg/kg (yes, I had to look that up, lol). A gaboon viper's is 5.2, a puff adder's is 2, and a black spitting cobra's is 0.44. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to compare different snakes because they may not be tested in the same scale/method. But to continue - A gaboon viper (see previous reference) has an IV LD50 of 6.722...so it takes more venom if injected into a vein than into a muscle. Why? because when it is injected directly into the muscle it causes much more local damage as well as progressively destroying tissue as it moves through the prey. Conversely, the puff adder's IV ld50 is 1.32. Chalk that up to the difference in the action of the venom. To get really impressive, the tiger rattlesnake has an IV ld50 of 0.056, the eastern brown snake's is 0.01. To take a look at some more examples - here is where I found the numbers quoted above: http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/LD50men.html.
just to give an idea - an adult gaboon viper can have 2 - 2 1/2 inch fangs (hence the IM measurement, lol), and inject an ounce of venom (that's 30cc, which is more descriptive to healthcare workers)
just to give an idea - an adult gaboon viper can have 2 - 2 1/2 inch fangs (hence the IM measurement, lol), and inject an ounce of venom (that's 30cc, which is more descriptive to healthcare workers)
hhmoore
tired & cranky shadow
dammit Jim, you stole my thunder cuz I had to see what the dogs were fussing about, lol. I saw your name down there and figured you were working on it
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
hhmoore said:
YJHB
New member
OMG, they inject 30cc??
Here's something interesting...you cannot inject more than 3 or 4 cc's into even a very large muscle (like in the thigh) without causing harm from the injection itself...it's too much volume. ALSO, on some adult humans 2.5 inches is too long and the fangs will hit the bone. Bones have and need vascular systems too. What this means, is the loss of an appendage from death of the bone...
LD50, okay. I should have remembered that from nursing school, but I don't deal much with that end of things
I guess the draw of hots is the same as the draw of speed for persons like me (love downhill skiing and jet skiing)
Here's something interesting...you cannot inject more than 3 or 4 cc's into even a very large muscle (like in the thigh) without causing harm from the injection itself...it's too much volume. ALSO, on some adult humans 2.5 inches is too long and the fangs will hit the bone. Bones have and need vascular systems too. What this means, is the loss of an appendage from death of the bone...
LD50, okay. I should have remembered that from nursing school, but I don't deal much with that end of things
I guess the draw of hots is the same as the draw of speed for persons like me (love downhill skiing and jet skiing)
YJHB
New member
And thank you for this thread; I am learning a lot!
hhmoore
tired & cranky shadow
That's not to say that the full amount of venom is injected with any/every bite...just that they are capable of delivering that much.
YJHB
New member
Is it really true that a 'hot' can decide not to envenomate with a bite?