Richard Camp/alligatorhunter

[ShannanD25]

It takes alot to tick me off to the point of posting a bad deal here but when an animals health is involved I feel the need to.
I recently purchased from Richard Camp aka alligatorhunter, a FEMALE Blizzard. I have all our emails. I told him my purpose for buying her was to pair her with my male blizzard. He told me she would be a good breeder and was two years of age. He sent a picture taken with a camera phone which showed a gray leo. (not a good pic but I never questioned it)
Imagine my surprise when I opened her box up. She weighs (with a big fat tail) 28.8 grams. She is missing most toes. She has a horribly deformed jaw that does not allow her to pick up mealworms. She needs to be hand fed them. And to top it all off, she is a HE!
Richard kept questioning my knowledge of Leos claiming it was only a bad shed that left the Blizzard with a crooked jaw. He claimed that "she" would get up to breeding size in no time and that she was a good size. When compared to my 5 month old female , this blizzard is SMALLER.
When presented with these facts he still insisted my lack of knowledge or newness was misleading me and I should listen to him as he has much experience and raised this Leo from birth.
He did offer to refund me my money and at first I was going to send "her" back- up until I flipped her over and noticed she was a he. That sealed "her" fate. I can not send this animal back and not feel bad about it.
I have pictures galore and emails to prove my side. Any buyer interested in his animals beware.
I may be relativly new to the Leo world but at least I know what the heck a male and female look like. And I know enough to know that a stunted, deformed Leo is not a Leo you want to add to the gene pool.
So Richard go ahead and question my "knowledge", try to make me feel like a dumb a$$ as you do in your emails to me. In the end, you are only going to show the folks here at fauna what a poor excuse for a Leo breeder you are. I have great photos and intend on working on some close ups showing the "male" anatomy of this blizzard so you'll know next time. Shame on you for allowing a 2 year old animal to suffer like this. Losing that many toes and suffering such a crooked jaw does not happen overnight.

 

[ShannanD25]

Emails between Richard and I-
And my fiance would not make me send anything back. It is just easier to sneak them in to my reptile room then beg forgivness when and IF he ever notices a new Leo.
When I get home from work tonight I will be taking up close and personal pictures of Bill (formerly named Bella) and his...maleness...I double checked again this morning just in case. I put Bill in a clear deli cup and my patternless male in a deli cup, held them up and compared....Identical "parts". Compared to my female ( I am using patternless as their skin coloration is so similar) Bill is totally different. You can find this original thread in the Leo discussion area with some pictures. I am keeping Bill the Blizzard and seeing what proper nutrition does for his stunted growth and jaw.

___________________________________________________


Shannan,
Are you trying to say that I sent you a male leopard gecko? I am unsure to what you are haveing problems with. I am fine with refunding you your money for her but it is still not very clear. The only thing that comes to mind is you are new to this and with that in mind I want to help you but if you keep assumeing and not listening to facts then I cannot help you. Well please let me know what you mean by ( Bella is actuallt Bill. Its is a male.) Because if you are insiting the blizzard is male that is impossiable and you have no idea what you are talking about. I will atomactically assume that this is because of your fiance other than what knowledge you have. Well have a good day and give me the tracking number after you have shipped her. I know e-mails are hard to understand so I am letting you know I am fine with everything and not trying to be hatefull towards you but am interested in what you are thinking and where you are getting you information. Thanks,
-R

Shannan Donivan <[email protected]> wrote:
I worry about breeding her because Bella is actually Bill. It is a male.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Camp
To: Shannan Donivan
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Blizzard female


Shannan,
Yea my address is on the box but you probably cant read it. Here it is:
Richard Camp

What do you mean you worry about breeding her? I have to ask because you said it. Thanks and take care.

Shannan Donivan <[email protected]> wrote:
I will be shipping her back tomorrow. She has been eating great for me and has been in the best of care. I just worry about breeding her and as much as I'd like to keep her as a pet I can't. Thank you for working with me!
I'll let you know as soon as she ships out!
Could you email me your address? I'm pretty sure it is on the box, but just in case!
-Shannan
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Camp
To: Shannan Donivan
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: Blizzard female


Shannan,
I will work with you no problem. Trust me I have been breeding leos for a few years now and her jaw is not to obviouse and it is do to a shed problem when she was younger. She is from a great breeder of leopard geckos at that and her babies will be fine. I can promise you that if you decide otherwise. It will take her probably about a month to get to 45g wich is not bad amount of time and gives you some time to work with her. Its entirely up to you though as the current owner to decide what you would like to do. I would not sale someone crap and I know she will be a good breeder for you. I would not buy crap either. You can decide over the weekend. I will honor what ever you do. But I would preffer you keep her because shipping is risky. But if you have shipped before then probably no problems. If their is anything else you noticed that wasnt visiable to you in the picture let me know because its probably not what you think. I dont know how long you have been into the whole scene but she was my gecko that I raised. Take care and please e-mail me back when you get a chance I know you are human so their are things you want to say.
-R

Shannan Donivan <[email protected]> wrote:
I think she is at a great weight for her size. She is the same length as my 6 month old patternless girl. Same weight too. She is just a little Leo. The jaw worries me as overbites can be passed on to the next generation and it can also be from one time MBD or the beginning of it. Her jaw bone is actually mis-aligned. Her tail is nice and fat, I just think she will never reach 45-50 grams. I double weighed her again at 29.1. I just don't feel right taking the risk and breeding her even is she were to gain another 10 grams. I worry about egg binding due to her petite frame. She was fed and ate like a pig for me tonight. 6 crickets, 5 mealworms and one finger later she is sound asleep in her hide. I'll get some other opinions on her but will probably still send her back Monday morning. Thank you for working with me on this.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Camp
To: Shannan Donivan
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Blizzard female


Shannan,
That is perfectly acceptable. She is probably some what dehydrated and does need to be fed so her weight would naturally be less from being shipped. I understand that you do not want her and I will refund you the money for her upon her safe arrival to me. So at this time I would reccomend that you probably hold onto her until monday because she probably will not make it back here from friday to saturday do to slow end of week. She is a breedable female and is aged as an adult and length is as should be but weight is a factor and that can be put on in less than a month. But if you were looking to breed her off the bat no she wont do right away. The jaw is normal and perfectly fine that small portion was from shed skin a long time ago. If you would have asked a few more questions that would have been fine but I provided a picture as well to you. I am just saying all this in response to your statments made. Males are usually larger than females also. I do not know how much you know so if you have any more questions let me know. Thanks and let me know when you would like to ship. I priced her pretty cheap due to the fact she is not at proper breeding weight yet.
-R

Shannan Donivan <[email protected]> wrote:
Richard,
I went and picked her up. She isn't what I expected. She can not be bred with that jaw deformity nor is she big enough. I thought she was an adult? And if she is an adult then there is a problem. She is only 29.1 grams, missing most toes and has a deformed jaw. If I were in the market for a pet she'd be fine but she is useless to me in her condition. I'd like to ship her back for a refund. Please let me know if this is acceptable.
-Shannan
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Camp
To: Shannan Donivan
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Blizzard female


Shannan,
Use the tracking number I gave you. You can go to the website or call 1-800-222-1811. Its in your state it arrived at 7:42 so it should be on the way to you. If you call you can speak to a live person that might be able to tell you where the package is at exactly and if they wont be able to deliver today you can go pick it up. Thanks and please feel free to e-mail me back with any questions. Take care,
-R

Shannan Donivan <[email protected]> wrote:
She hasn'tshown up yet and it is past 3. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


>From: Richard Camp
>To: Shannan Donivan
>Subject: Re: Blizzard female
>Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:58:31 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Shannan,
> I sent her out this morning by postal service express mail. She
>should arrive by 3:00 no later they said. Here is her tracking number:
>ER 085099547 US
>Thanks,
>-R
>
>Shannan Donivan wrote:
>I am going to have her sent to me here at work.
>A&S Mortgage Services INC
>Attention: Shannan Donivan
>49 N. Main St
>Jacobus PA 17407
>
>which delivery service are you using, so I know who to watch for?
>You can send her anytime. Just give me a heads up!
>Thanks so much!
>
>
> >From: Richard Camp
> >To: Shannan Donivan
> >Subject: Re: Blizzard female
> >Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:20:27 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Shannan,
> > What is the address and when would you like me to ship out the
> >lizard? Thanks,
> >-R
> >
> >Shannan Donivan wrote:
> >Perfect! I have a blizzard male who is going on 3, Bruce, and I think she
> >is a perfect match for him. He is just a regular Blizzard as well, but
>his
> >temperament makes him special to me!
> >Does she already have a name?
> >What is your paypal?
> >Also with shipping, we may have to get creative. My finace has told me no
> >more Leos....'
> >My last two I barely snuck in. I had them between my notebook and another
> >book in their little shipping tupperware and walked right by him....he
> >never noticed. He wasn't supposed to me home early that day.
> >I'll either have them shipped to my work or to my sister's house. I'll
>talk
> >with her and let you know. Meanwhile I will get you the $75 to your
>paypal
> >so you know I am a serious buyer!
> >Thanks and I can't wait to get her.
> >-Shannan
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Richard Camp
> >To: Shannan Donivan
> >Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 2:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: Blizzard female
> >
> >
> Shannan,
> She is about 2 years old. Thanks
> -R
>
> Shannan Donivan wrote:
> How old is she? (think that is my last question. Should have put them all
> in one but my brain is only now back to non-cold medicine status!) Please
> consider her sold!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Camp
> To: Shannan Donivan
> Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Blizzard female
>
>
> Shannan,
> Shipping is 25.00. Thanks,
> -R
>
>
> Shannan Donivan wrote:
> even better! How much is shipping?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Camp
> To: Shannan Donivan
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Blizzard female
>
>
> Shannan,
> Yes I do take paypal. Thanks,
> -R
>
> Shannan Donivan wrote:
> I think she is beautiful!
> I know it said in the ad but now I can't remember....(cold medicine) do you take paypal?
>
>
> > From: Richard Camp
> > To: Shannan Donivan
> > Subject: Re: Blizzard female
> > Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > Shannan,
> > This is the only picture I have that was taken with my friends cell phone camera and it is not very good as she looks like a bananna blizzard but she is not. She is just a normal blizzard. Thanks and let me knowwhat you think.
> > >-R
> > >
> > >Shannan Donivan wrote:
> > >Could you send me a picture of her?
> > >Thanks

 

[hill4803]

hey Shannon...

I saw your other post & the pics. This guy sucks out loud for trying to pass off a substandard animal as a breeder! I am glad you decided to keep him instead of sending him back to be mistreated more, but I would still insist on at least a partial refund. I have 14 year old students who can tell the difference between male & female leos, they know how to feed, supplement, breeding & incubate the eggs, and thats after only 90 days in my classroom. If this guy has been breeding for as long as he says, than it has just been dumb luck!Best of luck with Bill!

 

[thegeckobarn_DW]

...her jaw is not to obviouse...

What on Earth???? Is he blind???

 

[NEWReptiles]

My very first internet deal was made with Lee/Richard and I still think about it to this day. Below I will post a thread where he lies numerous times to me and other forum members. Its long and not that good of a read, but if you get VERY bored browse through it.

My deal with Richard

I was hoping he straightened up, but it appears that he may still be on the same track.

 

[SPJ]

Someone with the user ID alligatorhunter just posted corns for sale here but they did not use there real name.
Wonder if it is the same person?
If it is, why not come and explain what happened?

 

[sputnik]

Same Person

Yes, same person. You'll notice he signs his posts the same way he signed those emails with - R

He was on the BOI and HAS read this thread, but has not responded. Wonder why?

Here is the link to the corn ad.

http://faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41102

 

[AlligatorHunter]

Everyone,
Hello here is the reply you have been waiting for something more or less for you to babble on about and try to shame my name. Some of this post is fact and some is upset ranting and raveing. I refuse to argue or babble on because its a waste of time to me and most of you other than the one I dealt with I dont know. So I really dont care because most of you just like to talk trash thinking it will narrow my sales or my name. But I will stand my ground as always and its not like I stole her money or caused a great burden. I have talked with her and we have made arrangements. Uh oh the spelling bee people might start ranting and raveing as well. I just want you all who look at this thread to find out that alot of these people do not know me and just ad to this because they have nothing better to do. Also they were never really interested in my reptiles to begin with only the poster was interested. Over the years I have only had few problems and this happens to be one of them. I will correct it and this will never ever happen again. Because I try my hardest to be the best of all to anyone even if I dont know them. But junk like this where everyone slanders even if they do not know or were never even interested in dealing with you is shame and ridculouse, so in saying all what I have said dont take this badly but ya'll need to check your self's before you come stompin on my turf!!! Have a great and wonderful day!
-Richard Camp

 

[AlligatorHunter]

[DELETED - FULL NAME VIOLATION]

 

[Darin Chappell]

So, Mr. Alligator Hunter...

DID you send a missexed leo with missing toes and a messed up jaw to this person? If so, it's hardly a mistake to overlook all of those issues. If not, she's lying about you.

Either she's lying about you now, or you tried to sell her a substandard animal as qulified breeder. Which is it?

 

[sputnik]

Oh please!

Richard, I have not under any circumstances slandered you. You might want to look up a dictionary and see what that term actually means!

Read my post and show me where it says I called you a bad guy. I asked a simple question, why hadn't you responded after having already read this threa?

Sputy and your buddy above:

I just had to take note to your slander as your topic and postings are totaly non-relavant to the proceeding case anyway

Okay, kinda having hard time figuring out what the above statement means?

Doesn't make any sense.

But, in anycase your second post will probably be deleled because you couldn't follow simple rules and post your full name to it.

If you've made arrangements with the buyer, then great! Still makes a few wonder why you sold an animal in that condition anyway?

 

[AlligatorHunter]

Sputy and your buddy above:
I just had to take note to your slander as your topic and postings are totaly non-relavant to the proceeding case anyway.

-Richard Camp

 

[ShannanD25]

Richard and I have come to an agreement that suits both of us.
Cousin It as this gender bender Blizzard has become will stay with me as a pet and not be bred and Richard has offered a refund which I will use for this big appetite addition to my collection. Perhaps I am very particular with the condition of my breeders which is why this one will not be one of them. I am going to take pics of Cousin It's area in question because truly, I think male, Richard belives female and I can see how both could be correct. There are pores and bulges but looking at a post on "wilma" from awhile back, this could be a confused critter.
Opinions on the true gender are welcome but it will be posted on the Leo discussion area. Truly we may never know as I will not be breeding "It" ever.
Thanks!

 

[sputnik]

Good to see

Glad you got it worked out. Also glad your attitude is a little better then Richards.

 

[ShannanD25]

Actually my atittude can be alot worse when it involves an animal and any sort of suffering but I try to turn my business side on
Richard worked with me and we are now truly wondering just what is IT?
It came from Garrick D( I think that is what he said) and had been incubated for female...
please check the Leo discussion forum and give me your opinion!

 

[sputnik]

Okay

Yeah, I'll take a look... you have me interested !

All the best in the future!

 

[thomas davis]

ricky camp wow

now theres a name from the past,bout 3yrs ago i had a deal w/lil ricky camp, i ordered a bullsnake from him i recieved an empty box via usps 3days later,nothin but an empty cardboard box w/a loosely tied pillowcase inside, well after telling me i was a liar,i started a thread on the old.old boi ,,i will say this, he did refund my money but it was a fiasco ,,,,,thomas davis

 

[Darin Chappell]

Mr. Camp,

Did you suppose that a simple refund on this deal would be enough to stop people from wondering about you, now that the cat has been let out of the bag (or maybe that's "the snake" that's been "left" out of the bag, after that last post!)?

Do you just not answer direct questions when posed to you?

Your responses would be appreciated here. Did you send a leo with missing toes, a messed up jaw, and ambiguous gender determination to someon looking for a breeder quality animal? Did you also fail to fulfill your responsibilities as a seller in those instances mentioned in other threads?

It's true that anyone can have bad luck occassionally, and it is also true that a full refund says a lot about a seller's responsibility quotient. However, if you have LOTS of bad luck, why would anyone want to risk buying from you?

Really, sir, answers would be appreciated. This is not going away. Everytime you try to sell something here, it may be necessary to provide a link to THIS thread on each ad of yours ... if you continue to ignore these requests, I mean.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Well, Mr. Camp sent me an email, which I had not yet read when I posted the above. He has addressed the issues to a certain extent, but other questions (regarding the missing toes, messed up jaw, and the other bad deals) linger.

In the email he sent me, he specifically asked that I not post his reply here. I will honor that request until it seems apparent that he is not being forthright in his answers, then it will be posted. All I can say for now, is that his version of what transpired is different from the buyer's version.

Mr. Camp, you said that if I thought you needed to do so, to let you know that you needed to post more information here. I do, sir.

 

[sputnik]

??

Darin,

I don't see too many answers coming!

More like you and everyone else here will get the run around with his ramblings about slander and what not. Which was his earlier attempt to distract attention from the issue at hand.

Proof of that is you asked him a direct question and he never answered it.

DID you send a missexed leo with missing toes and a messed up jaw to this person? If so, it's hardly a mistake to overlook all of those issues. If not, she's lying about you.

There is still no answer posted to this question.